Dunwich Legacy Spoilers (Team Covenant)

[Daft Blazer 291]

I was hoping for something to really boost Daisy.

[iGniGhted 113]

I was hoping for something to really boost Daisy.

 

seeking answers does just this. the card is practically made for her, but perhaps not solo. While other investigators can roam around, killing and whatnot, she can sit at locations, gather clues, and help support.

now, she's already getting 1 free action per turn on tome assets, Seeking Answers saves her one, perhaps two actions used on movement to gain clues in adjacent locations. With a cost of 1, that is essentially taking up another action, but with Daisy's starting intellect of 5, you have the highest chance of success as any one other investigator, so it's going to require the least amount of contribution to ensure success..

sure, it's not really a Daisy card, and it's not giving Daisy any static buff or anything similar, but i'm saying it feels the most comfortable in her hands, albeit with a chance of failure still looming, not as wasteful as it would seem for other investigators with 3 or 4 intellect.

[Xenu's Paradox 40]

I was hoping for something to really boost Daisy.

 

seeking answers does just this. the card is practically made for her, but perhaps not solo. While other investigators can roam around, killing and whatnot, she can sit at locations, gather clues, and help support.

now, she's already getting 1 free action per turn on tome assets, Seeking Answers saves her one, perhaps two actions used on movement to gain clues in adjacent locations. With a cost of 1, that is essentially taking up another action, but with Daisy's starting intellect of 5, you have the highest chance of success as any one other investigator, so it's going to require the least amount of contribution to ensure success..

sure, it's not really a Daisy card, and it's not giving Daisy any static buff or anything similar, but i'm saying it feels the most comfortable in her hands, albeit with a chance of failure still looming, not as wasteful as it would seem for other investigators with 3 or 4 intellect.

Daisy is the Cleric (from WoW, not D&D.) Her job is to support the party, not tank (Wendy/Agnes), or DPS (Roland/Skids).

You don't solo Cleric.

[VermillionDe 70]

If you're taking the Book of Shadows, you do have one more arcane slot.  I feel like 3 should be plenty.  Any more than that, and you wouldn't have to be making the decisions about what to use in those limited slots that other classes have to make.

 

Wow, how the heck did I miss the extra arcane slot? I withdraw the complaint, Clarity of mind rocks out loud. 

[Ardulac 17]

What makes Clarity of Mind rock? It is just a bad version of First Aid, which is itself a subpar card. The only advantage it has is that it's a spell (for the free interactions that keyword has), but it takes up a slot and can't heal damage.

[Xenu's Paradox 40]

What makes Clarity of Mind rock? It is just a bad version of First Aid, which is itself a subpar card. The only advantage it has is that it's a spell (for the free interactions that keyword has), but it takes up a slot and can't heal damage.

 

It's also a Mystic card rather than a Guardian card, and that makes it usable by a character who WANTS to take horror and just happens to have a very powerful interaction with Spell cards on her signature asset. Oh, and she can and likely does use Book of Shadows, which grants an extra Arcane slot and recharges Spell assets.

[Vlad3theImpaler 514]

What makes Clarity of Mind rock? It is just a bad version of First Aid, which is itself a subpar card. The only advantage it has is that it's a spell (for the free interactions that keyword has), but it takes up a slot and can't heal damage.

Agnes's main shtick is doing things that can deal horror to her, and using that horror to damage enemies.  A reusable way to recover horror that can be included in her deck is inherently useful, and the spell trait gives it a few other helpful interactions.

 

The only characters that have access to both First Aid and Clarity of Mind are the Dunwich Investigators.  For Jim Culver, I would consider taking Clarity since it works with Arcane Initiate and Book of Shadows, plus it doesn't have the opportunity cost of taking up one of his 5 available non-Mystic cards.  For the other 4, First Aid is definitely more useful.

 

For Agnes, First Aid is unavailable, so Clarity wins by default.

[Ardulac 17]

What makes Clarity of Mind rock? It is just a bad version of First Aid, which is itself a subpar card. The only advantage it has is that it's a spell (for the free interactions that keyword has), but it takes up a slot and can't heal damage.

 

It's also a Mystic card rather than a Guardian card, and that makes it usable by a character who WANTS to take horror and just happens to have a very powerful interaction with Spell cards on her signature asset. Oh, and she can and likely does use Book of Shadows, which grants an extra Arcane slot and recharges Spell assets.

I always seem to be close to running out of health before sanity with Agnes.

The Book of Shadows interaction is one I didn't specifically consider, but I have a hard time imaging that it would be worth 2 actions to heal an additional horror after already healing 3 horror with the initial charges. If you're taking that much horror than it feels like all of the actions spent on healing will just be letting you tread water at best.

The current state of healing in the game just seems to be worse than getting assets that will soak the damage or using actions and cards to push towards ending the scenario more quickly.

[Xenu's Paradox 40]

What makes Clarity of Mind rock? It is just a bad version of First Aid, which is itself a subpar card. The only advantage it has is that it's a spell (for the free interactions that keyword has), but it takes up a slot and can't heal damage.

 

It's also a Mystic card rather than a Guardian card, and that makes it usable by a character who WANTS to take horror and just happens to have a very powerful interaction with Spell cards on her signature asset. Oh, and she can and likely does use Book of Shadows, which grants an extra Arcane slot and recharges Spell assets.

I always seem to be close to running out of health before sanity with Agnes.

The Book of Shadows interaction is one I didn't specifically consider, but I have a hard time imaging that it would be worth 2 actions to heal an additional horror after already healing 3 horror with the initial charges. If you're taking that much horror than it feels like all of the actions spent on healing will just be letting you tread water at best.

The current state of healing in the game just seems to be worse than getting assets that will soak the damage or using actions and cards to push towards ending the scenario more quickly.

You don't use Book of Shadows to recharge Clarity of Mind. You use it to gain a third Arcane slot and recharge Shriveling.

[Ardulac 17]

The extra arcane slot from Book of Shadows just reduces the downside of it taking a slot in that case, which still means you could be caught without enough slots if you draw them in a bad order.

I'm also not all that impressed by Book of Shadows in the first place though. Shriveling costs 3 resources, 1 action, and 1 card for 4 uses. Book of Shadows would require 4 resources, 5 actions, 1 card, and 3 experience to generate the same 4 uses. It's got some versatility, but it would be a borderline card at level 0 unless there was a compelling reason to have 3 arcane slots (like a killer combo).

[Vlad3theImpaler 514]

I don't think a killer combo is necessary.  Having an extra arcane slot for Agnes or even Jim is useful, just like having an extra hand slot for Daisy is useful for her tomes.

 

And it's not like Agnes has a lot of cards that take the hand slot anyway, so she's not losing much there. Her best "weapon" is actually a spell, so other than maybe a flashlight, what does she need the hand slot for?

Edited December 20, 2016 by Vlad3theImpaler

[VermillionDe 70]

And it's not like Agnes has a lot of cards that take the hand slot anyway, so she's not losing much there. Her best "weapon" is actually a spell, so other than maybe a flashlight, what does she need the hand slot for?

I usually fill her hands with Grotesque statues if I don't have a book of shadows in play. There's also ritual candle coming out in Dunwich, but I think that card is better for Jim Culver anyway. 

[Whipporwill 15]

So, beginning to have some doubts about how much play testing was done on this. I know the game as a co-op isn't required to be as balanced as other games and a little more power here or there really isn't a bad thing, especially as it's narrative driven. But has anyone else just tried a proxy run with Ashcan Pete yet? I tried a quick non-optimized just toss together deck with him last night, pretty just tossing in a bunch of survivor cards and a few neutral cards and he pretty much finished the intro scenario before the first agenda even advanced. It felt like I was two handing the game while only requiring I find clues for 1 investigator.

 

He essentially starts with a 4 in Will, Intellect, and Strength, a weapon for +1 dmg, and a built in move + investigate as well. Just starting with Duke saves so many actions that other investigators have to spend even getting set up or finding their pieces, and moving. What Ashcan Pete gets to start with felt like what another investigator would feel like if they got to start with an infinitely loaded gun, Leo De Luca, and a magnifying glass, none of which took up any slots, for free. And Duke isn't even required to be paid for to start, nor does he take up the highly competitive Ally Slot, both of which could theoretically be applied to him and he would still feel like the absolute best investigator in the game by another order of magnitude. He was such a super solo it really felt unfair to everyone else that might play because he just does pretty much everything so well. I have trouble seeing how his downsides balance out all the upsides. I felt was like playing with a CoDzilla from D&D 3rd edition days where yes, the party is along, but they really aren't required, they're just along to watch the super solo do everything. 

 

Maybe the balance is in a long term Campaign game where trauma might eventually make him unfeasible, but in one offs or short campaigns it feels like at the least he should be required to use a separate harder token bag so everyone else still feels useful.

 

To clarify I'm really, honestly, not complaining, I'm delighted that both my and my wife's favorite investigators were in the first expansion, I just really don't see how what he gets vs. every other investigator is even remotely close. Without spoiling anything, can anyone who has used the new expansion comment on whether their own experiences are different? Is it just a case of the core scenario just happening to be too easy for him?

[Network57 561]

So, beginning to have some doubts about how much play testing was done on this. I know the game as a co-op isn't required to be as balanced as other games and a little more power here or there really isn't a bad thing, especially as it's narrative driven. But has anyone else just tried a proxy run with Ashcan Pete yet? I tried a quick non-optimized just toss together deck with him last night, pretty just tossing in a bunch of survivor cards and a few neutral cards and he pretty much finished the intro scenario before the first agenda even advanced. It felt like I was two handing the game while only requiring I find clues for 1 investigator.

 

He essentially starts with a 4 in Will, Intellect, and Strength, a weapon for +1 dmg, and a built in move + investigate as well. Just starting with Duke saves so many actions that other investigators have to spend even getting set up or finding their pieces, and moving. What Ashcan Pete gets to start with felt like what another investigator would feel like if they got to start with an infinitely loaded gun, Leo De Luca, and a magnifying glass, none of which took up any slots, for free. And Duke isn't even required to be paid for to start, nor does he take up the highly competitive Ally Slot, both of which could theoretically be applied to him and he would still feel like the absolute best investigator in the game by another order of magnitude. He was such a super solo it really felt unfair to everyone else that might play because he just does pretty much everything so well. I have trouble seeing how his downsides balance out all the upsides. I felt was like playing with a CoDzilla from D&D 3rd edition days where yes, the party is along, but they really aren't required, they're just along to watch the super solo do everything. 

 

Maybe the balance is in a long term Campaign game where trauma might eventually make him unfeasible, but in one offs or short campaigns it feels like at the least he should be required to use a separate harder token bag so everyone else still feels useful.

 

To clarify I'm really, honestly, not complaining, I'm delighted that both my and my wife's favorite investigators were in the first expansion, I just really don't see how what he gets vs. every other investigator is even remotely close. Without spoiling anything, can anyone who has used the new expansion comment on whether their own experiences are different? Is it just a case of the core scenario just happening to be too easy for him?

 

Have you tried that deck multiple times? It's theoretically possible to finish the first Scenario in 3 turns with Pete + Duke, but you may have just gotten super lucky on card draw and chaos pulls. And definitely try that build on Scenarios #2 and #3. The Gathering is supposed to be easier - I'd imagine scenarios that assign more damage and horror, have a more enemy-stacked encounter deck - would be just as tough for Pete as for any other Investigator, because once he loses that pup, he's going to struggle.

[VermillionDe 70]

He essentially starts with a 4 in Will, Intellect, and Strength, a weapon for +1 dmg, and a built in move + investigate as well. Just starting with Duke saves so many actions that other investigators have to spend even getting set up or finding their pieces, and moving. What Ashcan Pete gets to start with felt like what another investigator would feel like if they got to start with an infinitely loaded gun, Leo De Luca, and a magnifying glass, none of which took up any slots, for free. And Duke isn't even required to be paid for to start, nor does he take up the highly competitive Ally Slot, both of which could theoretically be applied to him and he would still feel like the absolute best investigator in the game by another order of magnitude. 

 

Not trying to be sassy here, did you remember to exhaust duke after using him? Yeah he starts with a gun and magnifying glass that can only be used once, for either purpose each turn. So if you used him to hit a ghoul in your location you couldn't then use his bonus to find a clue. It definitely means that you'll have to find a different way to do damage to the ghoul priest after the first hit, or spend multiple turns hitting him. Either that or burn through your hand discarding cards to keep him untapped.

Yeah, he's REALLY good out the gate. Ashcan pete's strongest ability is probably the zerg rush, he begins set up enough to do a lot. But he can't do it as consistently as an investigator that's set up, and the Survival cards are really not reliable for getting clues or fighting. That means you rely on your once-per-turn bonus of Duke for all of that, and that's about half the game. On top of, yes if you draw your weakness or somehow lose Duke you're now an underpowered character. 

In short, yeah he's going to be really good in the first scenario. However I think you'll find a pattern will unfold later in the game that you'll start out really strong but have weaker finishes. 

Edited December 20, 2016 by VermillionDe

[Doma0997 72]

Pete really needs a draw engine to get going. Being able to use Duke twice a turn is going to put a burn on your hand over time, and net you a net value of 0 cards per turn. Really, I think Pete will have some interesting builds. You can find something to break with the whole ready an asset ability on something other than duke, you can work on card draw so that you can use duke more often, or do you build pete into someone that can stand alone without duke, and he's just a good side item. 

[Ardulac 17]

Her best "weapon" is actually a spell, so other than maybe a flashlight, what does she need the hand slot for?

I wasn't concerned with the slot it takes (though VermillionDe does raise some valid points regarding that). It's just of marginal use right now and there aren't enough arcane slot assets for getting an extra one to matter much yet.

Edited December 20, 2016 by Ardulac