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Hamanu1

[MAJOR SPOILER] Rogue One

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Everybody dies.... the end.

No surprise there..

Though I was hoping that a few of the characters might show up again in another story. I know they were going for the great sacrifice but still. It's a shame, is all.

Edited by Hamanu1

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Yeah, I agree. It was a little over the top actually. As if they really, really, really, REALLY needed to underscore the point. And add exclamation points. And bold type.

 

I mean, even the badguys all died. And the stormtroopers. And the rebel troopers. And all the pilots. Too much. Meh.

 

Anyway. Anyone recognize this?

 

(my emphasis)

 

"It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire."

 

This doesn't fit with Rogue One at all.

 

Yes, they got the plans...barely.

 

But their fleet was decimated, their best troops and pilots died (now we know why Porkins got to fly an X-wing), and only Jar Jar made it out alive.

 

If that's a victory, it was a Pyrrhic one.

 

Don't get me wrong, I liked the film (except the HORRIBLE CGI Tarkin/Leia), but I think they took it a step too far, trying to be all original and whatnot.

Edited by Green Knight

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This doesn't fit with Rogue One at all.

 

Yes, they got the plans...barely.

 

But their fleet was decimated, their best troops and pilots died (now we know why Porkins got to fly an X-wing), and only Jar Jar made it out alive.

 

If that's a victory, it was a Pyrrhic one.

Pyrrhic? What are you talking about?!

Not only did they get the plans and the without them it would have been the end of the rebellion. Finito. There would have been no coming back from that. Getting the plans were arguable more important to the outcome of the Galactic Civil War than Luke's torpedos, as it wouldn't have happened if not for this battle.

But on top of that they took out two ISDs, tons of imperial fighters and ground forces - including the utter destruction of the ground installation and any remaining imperial forces there, which wouldn't have been a target of the Death Star if not for their operations there. Last but not least, besides parts of the rebel fleet getting destroyed, significant parts of it was able to disengage in the latter parts of the battle.

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I did not expect the entire ground crew to die as well, but.....I'm actually ok with it. I makes sense given the circumstance and it still counts as a victory since their main objective was to get the plans, which they did, although at great cost. At least part of the fleet and Red Squadron made it out alive and they managed to even take down 2 ISDs.

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Another point...   planet whatsitsname was a major data  center storing Death Star plans. For a moment there I thought the Empire not only lost the plans but must have lost a bunch of other high tech designs as well.

I don't remember now but did they stress that that was the ONLY place where the plans were kept?

 

If so, how did the build Death Star v2 when both engineers were gone.

 

And I agree... Tarkin and Leia were both far too cartoony though Leia didn't bother me as much since she had a second of screen time.

 

I found it funny how Saw Guerrera's gang looked like a bunch of mujaheddin, the rebel troops on the beach had WW2 helmets and the gatling gun scene from the shuttle was like Vietnam. 

Edited by Hamanu1

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Another point...   planet whatsitsname was a major data  center storing Death Star plans. For a moment there I thought the Empire not only lost the plans but must have lost a bunch of other high tech designs as well.

I don't remember now but did they stress that that was the ONLY place where the plans were kept?

 

If so, how did the build Death Star v2 when both engineers were gone.

 

And I agree... Tarkin and Leia were both far too cartoony though Leia didn't bother me as much since she had a second of screen time.

 

I found it funny how Saw Guerrera's gang looked like a bunch of mujaheddin, the rebel troops on the beach had WW2 helmets and the gatling gun scene from the shuttle was like Vietnam.

I can think of a couple other places the plans would've been stored, namely the Imperial Archives on Coruscant and the Death Star itself. Have watch it a second time to confirm that they did not say that Scarif was the only place they could get the plans.

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This doesn't fit with Rogue One at all.

 

Yes, they got the plans...barely.

 

But their fleet was decimated, their best troops and pilots died (now we know why Porkins got to fly an X-wing), and only Jar Jar made it out alive.

 

If that's a victory, it was a Pyrrhic one.

Pyrrhic? What are you talking about?!

Not only did they get the plans and the without them it would have been the end of the rebellion. Finito. There would have been no coming back from that. Getting the plans were arguable more important to the outcome of the Galactic Civil War than Luke's torpedos, as it wouldn't have happened if not for this battle.

But on top of that they took out two ISDs, tons of imperial fighters and ground forces - including the utter destruction of the ground installation and any remaining imperial forces there, which wouldn't have been a target of the Death Star if not for their operations there. Last but not least, besides parts of the rebel fleet getting destroyed, significant parts of it was able to disengage in the latter parts of the battle.

 

 

The Rebel fleet was wiped out.

 

Only a single CR90 got away (plus something off-screen maybe, but not much). 

 

It wasn't a trap, but it might as well have been.

 

So, they got the plans out, in a completely backwards kind of way...

 

Good thing the Force was there to guide Luke - because that "back door" Galen built was effectively impossible to capitalize on for a non-Jedi  :D

 

So yeah, a victory, but a Pyrrhic one at best.

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This doesn't fit with Rogue One at all.

 

Yes, they got the plans...barely.

 

But their fleet was decimated, their best troops and pilots died (now we know why Porkins got to fly an X-wing), and only Jar Jar made it out alive.

 

If that's a victory, it was a Pyrrhic one.

Pyrrhic? What are you talking about?!

Not only did they get the plans and the without them it would have been the end of the rebellion. Finito. There would have been no coming back from that. Getting the plans were arguable more important to the outcome of the Galactic Civil War than Luke's torpedos, as it wouldn't have happened if not for this battle.

But on top of that they took out two ISDs, tons of imperial fighters and ground forces - including the utter destruction of the ground installation and any remaining imperial forces there, which wouldn't have been a target of the Death Star if not for their operations there. Last but not least, besides parts of the rebel fleet getting destroyed, significant parts of it was able to disengage in the latter parts of the battle.

 

 

The Rebel fleet was wiped out.

 

Only a single CR90 got away (plus something off-screen maybe, but not much). 

 

It wasn't a trap, but it might as well have been.

 

So, they got the plans out, in a completely backwards kind of way...

 

Good thing the Force was there to guide Luke - because that "back door" Galen built was effectively impossible to capitalize on for a non-Jedi   :D

 

So yeah, a victory, but a Pyrrhic one at best.

 

Err no I'm pretty sure they weren't all wiped out. Gold Squadron and Red Squadron survived for obvious reasons and a few ships did escape successfully just before the Devastator appeared.

Edited by Wraithdt

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Again, we see several ships Light Speed it out of there when the Death Star and Darth Vader's fleet materialises.

Secondly, How can this be a Pyrrhic victory considering that the entire Galactic Cvil War hinges on it? How do you quantify a battle as having had too many casualties to have been worth it, considering that without the war would have been lost?

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This doesn't fit with Rogue One at all.

 

Yes, they got the plans...barely.

 

But their fleet was decimated, their best troops and pilots died (now we know why Porkins got to fly an X-wing), and only Jar Jar made it out alive.

 

If that's a victory, it was a Pyrrhic one.

Pyrrhic? What are you talking about?!

Not only did they get the plans and the without them it would have been the end of the rebellion. Finito. There would have been no coming back from that. Getting the plans were arguable more important to the outcome of the Galactic Civil War than Luke's torpedos, as it wouldn't have happened if not for this battle.

But on top of that they took out two ISDs, tons of imperial fighters and ground forces - including the utter destruction of the ground installation and any remaining imperial forces there, which wouldn't have been a target of the Death Star if not for their operations there. Last but not least, besides parts of the rebel fleet getting destroyed, significant parts of it was able to disengage in the latter parts of the battle.

 

The Rebel fleet was wiped out.

 

Only a single CR90 got away (plus something off-screen maybe, but not much). 

 

It wasn't a trap, but it might as well have been.

 

So, they got the plans out, in a completely backwards kind of way...

 

Good thing the Force was there to guide Luke - because that "back door" Galen built was effectively impossible to capitalize on for a non-Jedi   :D

 

So yeah, a victory, but a Pyrrhic one at best.

Err no I'm pretty sure they weren't all wiped out. Gold Squadron and Red Squadron survived for obvious reasons and a few ships did escape successfully just before the Devastator appeared.

Nitpicking.

The point is that blue squadron is gone, red and gold are down on pilots, and the rebel fleet has been savaged.

We know what happens next, but cost was high indeed.

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Again, we see several ships Light Speed it out of there when the Death Star and Darth Vader's fleet materialises.Secondly, How can this be a Pyrrhic victory considering that the entire Galactic Cvil War hinges on it? How do you quantify a battle as having had too many casualties to have been worth it, considering that without the war would have been lost?

How do you think the Council would evaluate the battle? Just after, while not having seen the entire trilogy.

And a battle they didn't want to fight in the first place.

And when they finally got to see the plans...It was generally considered a fool's errand, no?

If it wasn't for that famboy...

So yeah, still phyrric.

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They didn't want to fight any battles, ever again. The council scene just hammered home how they would have no ability to continue the rebellion, what with no longer being able to concentrate their forces. They were all going to pack up, toss in the towel, either conceede to the Empire or slink away.

Is it a desirable tactical situation to be in? Definately not. If it was there would not be much tension to the following movies. But at least they get to fight on. That doesn't make their victory Pyrrhic; their losses were devestating but neither pointless nor decisive.

If anything next to theme of sacrifice (and to some degree, redemption) the theme of the movie was hope. Yeah, it may have been hammered in a little too bluntly, what with the repetition of the word again and again; but that is all in there to funnel the narrative to it's final conclusion and the result of all the losses: A New Hope. A new hope because the Death Star might now, even if it being an incredible long shot (one a million even), be destroyed because of having secured the plans. Pyrrhic? Not at all.

Edited by Cremate

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I found it funny how Saw Guerrera's gang looked like a bunch of mujaheddin, the rebel troops on the beach had WW2 helmets and the gatling gun scene from the shuttle was like Vietnam. 

 

And Jiang Wen's gattling gun blaster scene was like saving private ryan/d-day... doors open: everyone dies...

 

Both sides could shoot in this one... but they were all going to die anyway...

 

Those Death Star shots... nice idea: otherwise what would the impact have been when they destroyed Alderaan... not quite as impressive? I liked the allusion that there was still some kind of effort by the Empire to cover things when they mentioned the Senate was told it was a mining accident on Jedha...

 

And that final scene as those rebel troopers scramble like rats to get away from the flood AKA: Darth Vader's lightsabre and death grip...

 

 

SO MANY GREAT SCENES! Loved it...

Edited by PedroK

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Another point...   planet whatsitsname was a major data  center storing Death Star plans. For a moment there I thought the Empire not only lost the plans but must have lost a bunch of other high tech designs as well.

I don't remember now but did they stress that that was the ONLY place where the plans were kept?

 

If so, how did the build Death Star v2 when both engineers were gone.

 

The book 'Catalyst' points out that the first Death Star was the Republic's "secret battle station" project, although several times in the book it was noted that the it was the Separatists that had started out with the plans for it, and that Dooku was almost certainly constructing his own battle station.

 

My guess would be - that is where the second Death Star came from.  The Republic built the Geonosis Death Star, while the Separatists had started work on the Endor Death Star.  Obviously, only one of them ever got completed (downside to 'losing' the war, I suppose) - but Palpatine would have known where both of them were, so could pick up construction on the second if the first was destroyed.

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I heard that the original ending had Vader slaughtering all the rebels in a very gruesome way but they changed it somehow to make it less bloody.

I heard this too.

 

Decapitations, using the force to trigger grenades on the rebels' belts, ripping people in half with the force, etc. This was all stuff I read very early on and I definitely think Disney pulled the plug on that.

 

You could tell that Edwards had a bit of a leash though with what he could do. I get that Disney is trying to cater to the youngsters but Vader is supposed to be scary AF.

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