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eltom13

Some musings on Fate

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In the core rule book on page 293 under "Using Fate Points" it says that you can always spend a Fate Point at any time as a Free Action. Since a character can potentially spend as many Free Actions per Turn as he or she likes (cf. DH core rule book, 218) does that mean that he or she can also spent, let's say 3 Fate Points to gain a +30 bonus to a single test? Or as another example first spend 1 Fate Point to gain +10 and then another to re-roll? Also, when first spending a Fate Point for a bonus and then spending one to re-roll, does the bonus still count for the re-roll?

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I don't have my book with me, but I am nearly 100% certain there is some phrase in there that either says you can only use each Fate point affect once on a given roll, or that only one Fate point can be used on any roll.

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I could have sworn I've seen something like what KommissarK suggested, but looking at the actual book, there is indeed no mention of such a limitation.

 

Indeed, in comparison with the 1st Edition rules, the re-roll now even misses the "results of second roll are final" addendum, suggesting that you may re-roll as often as you have Fate as well.

Edited by Lynata

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I think there might be a section in the basic rules at the start of the book that says you can't reroll a reroll through either Fate Points or talents. If there isn't such a rule, I've been doing that wrong for a very long time.

 

Also, when first spending a Fate Point for a bonus and then spending one to re-roll, does the bonus still count for the re-roll?

 

My interpretation has always been that using a Fate Point to reroll uses all relevant bonuses and penalties from the original test. I remember that it was like that with the old Righteous Fury rules for DH1 so I assumed that the same rule carried over, although that assumption may be incorrect based on this thread.

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Thank you for your comments.

@Lynata, Popdart: I'm sure, that there is something in the basic section at the start of the book stating that you can never re-roll a re-roll.

@Popdart: Concerning the bonuses for a re-roll, I think your interpretation is still valid in DH2.

@KommisarK: I'm also pretty sure that there was such a limitation for the Deathwatch game, but I didn't find anything in the DH2 core rule book that prevents you from spending more than one Fate Point for a single test. If you find it, can you guide me to the relevant section in the book, please?

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Just for reference:

 

Question: Can an ability that allows a result to be re-rolled ever

be itself re-rolled (page 22)? What if this is the result of using two

different abilities, such as a background special rule and a Fate

point (page 293)?

Answer: No. A re-roll cannot be re-rolled, and the second result

must always be accepted. Note that a player cannot spend multiple

Fate points to re-roll the same test multiple times. He can though

can spend a Fate point before rolling to gain a bonus on a test, and

if needed spend another to re-roll that test (and even spend a third

to gain an extra degree of success on that test, if desired).

 

~ alemander

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@alemander: Thanks for this reference and the clarification. But one of my initial questions is still unanswered, I think: Can one spend more than one Fate Point to get a higher bonus, say 3 Fate Points to gain +30 bonus.

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@alemander: Thanks for this reference and the clarification. But one of my initial questions is still unanswered, I think: Can one spend more than one Fate Point to get a higher bonus, say 3 Fate Points to gain +30 bonus.

 

You know... I don't think that's ever been addressed. It's always been my assumption that you can't use multiple Fate Points for the same purpose? But now I've no idea what kind of founding that had - except for the matter of re-rolls.

 

Honestly, I don't see why not. Unless a rule comes forward I may just allow it in my own games - if they want to blow all of their Fate Points on a single test, be my guest, it's not like the entire campaign should pivot on a single dice-roll anyway. :D

Edited by TheWorldSmith

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I think you can spend Fate multiple times to get a bonus on your test or add degrees of success. It doesn't come up often, but sometimes that one die roll can alter the course of an entire investigation.

The telepath in my party actually did end up using this to good effect. They were investigating the patriarch of a powerful noble house, and the telepath successfully mind-scanned the noble to learn some of his secrets. However, the noble's attendant psyker detected this with Psyniscience and began looking for the source of the mind reading. I had the player roll initiative to see if he could erase the psyker's memory before the information was shared with the master. He won initiative and just passed the Focus Power test, then spent two Fate to boost his mind wipe roll up to 3 DoS. The enemy psyker succeeded on his resistance roll... with 2 DoS. Those extra Fate Point expenditures saved their bacon.

Edited by Covered in Weasels

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Just to throw this in the bag > I award Fate Points back to players after every 2 combat encounters "before" they get to rest (i.e. you kno that thing humans do for 8 hours every 24 lol)...

 

Its called a "milestone" a concept I stole from pitiful 4E D&D

 

Stay GAMING

Morbid

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In my opinion my players have already too many Fate Points. The two psykers both went very lucky on Emperor's Blessing and started with 4 each. The priest 3 and the poor assassin only 2. Most sessions (about 3-5 hours game time) if there are no big encounters the players have some or even all Fate Points left at the end.

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I think a lot hinges on how long your sessions last.

 

In online games, a problem I've noticed is that due to the game progressing at a slower pace, fewer things get done in an evening, which in turn means fewer tests. So the same amount of Fate will feel much more powerful due to the higher ratio.

 

And then there are the players. Personally, I'm really stingy with anything that's a limited resource (at least if I have less than ~10 of whatever), which has in the past resulted in me often not using a single FP over the course of an evening. Something I really ought to fix some day. :P

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Since we are on the topic of Fate Points, another GM and I were discussing the nature of death in DH2 and Fate Points.  Anyone have an issue with how unlikely a character is to permanently die without extremely special circumstances (a voidship exploding, an unconscious execution)?

 

This is 40K and death should be almost mandatory and while it is a role-playing game, characters should die almost.  I am reminded of the old D&D setting of Dark Sun where they actually said that characters would die and advise the inclusion of a "character tree" of ready made characters that could be inserted.  It seems in DH1 they had this kind of idea, including a paragraph at the beginning of almost every one of the chapters in Haarlock or Apostasy giving advice on where new characters could come in, etc.

 

~ alemander

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It seems in DH1 they had this kind of idea, including a paragraph at the beginning of almost every one of the chapters in Haarlock or Apostasy giving advice on where new characters could come in, etc.

They also did this in the DH2 adventure book Forgotten Gods. I myself never killed a PC in game because for me the characters are the centerpiece of every story and so I don't like to swap them a lot. But in principle it should be easy to let PCs burn through there Fate Points in a few sessions and permanently kill them ...

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DH2 certainly increases the survival threshold compared to DH1 what with starting characters having more fate points almost by default. I've never actually managed to permanently kill a character but I've had a few players burn fate points here and there. I actually preferred BC's Infamy system a lot more than just using fate points because the act of burning Infamy carried greater weight.

 

Fate points are a lot more useful in DH2 as almost every role has a special ability that relies on spending fate points. Having a character burn fate points to survive limits their utility in future sessions and that's even before taking into account narrative consequences or any lingering critical damage. It's a tricky system to work and I would have preferred a separate track of death saves or character lives or something rather than pegging everything to fate points.

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I actually curtailed Fate Point recovery in my game; it's not each session, but each day.  It's a little more effort, sure.  But it means when the players go all out in a short period of time, their resources are exhausted later on until they can get a break.  It also prevents things like a pause mid-fight and full Fate Points when they return.  

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 I always allow to use multiple Fate (or Infamy in Balck Crusade) Points to give bigger bonuses or more DoS. If the PC is desperate enough to use 3 Fate Points on one roll, I say let them - they probably have a reason, and it balances out by them not having it next to re-roll that one important Dodge/Parry/Stealth test.

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Yeah, that's a good point. Anything that can be rolled on should be winnable, at which point it doesn't matter how much Fate a player blows on it.

 

Exceptions may exist for Tests where the penalties push the Test difficulty beyond the normally achievable (say, a -40 when the player has 35 in the Characteristic), but even then excuses may be found as to why it works. For example, a heavy, locked door being pulled open because of a screw that comes loose in just the right moment. After all, if a character with a higher Characteristic is able to lower the Test difficulty, then the same bonus should be available to other players whose Characteristic would otherwise not allow them to succeed.

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