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JoeyBriefcase

Suppose there was an X-Wing 2.0

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With all the fixes being requested for the game's main ship, it made me wonder if now would be the time for a so-called X-Wing 2.0. I think there are many advantages to a cardboard expansion, especially now that the devs can assess the balance in one Fel swoop now that everything's on the table. The waves are running out of ships, and every new ship doesn't seem to add much more variety with the sheer number ships there are now. Your B-wing and G1-A seem very much alike, your TIE/fos and A-Wings, and every ship is supposed to point and shoot very much the same. If such an expansion was released, I think there could be many benefits in regards to clearing "fix" clutter. We have dozens of cards that change how one specific ship is to behave and in some cases you have to buy the cards that make them better (Imperial and Rebel Aces, Integrated Astromech, Most Wanted Firespray). I'm not saying they shouldn't have done it, but I think now would be a great time to streamline all of the unique ship abilities, tweak point costs, revitalize ships archetypes, and maybe introduce new widespread mechanics. I would gladly pay for $30 bucks of cardboard as long as its a one time deal, and the game has changed for the better.

 

Here are some things that I hope to see if X-Wing 2.0 comes to fruition.

 

1. Pilots cards independent of the ship.

Tycho Celchu flew X-Wings and A-Wings, so why not have 2 listed point costs depending on what he's flying? This promotes your list building to really consider not just what, but who you are using in your squad since there can only be one Tycho Celchu.

 

2. Unique Squadron Titles

These are titles like Rogue Squadron or Phoenix Squadron that can only be applied to a squad that follows a certain formula. Your 3 X-Wings consisting of Luke, Biggs, and Porkins could be granted the Red Squadron title, giving them a unique buff since you went through the trouble of bringing them all together in a 100 point list. 

 

3.Increased weight for ship states

I love the constant internal math associated with considering your moves and actions. Am I in arc or out? Am I in range 1 and stressed? Or am I facing down 2-3 ships clustered together? Ion and Stress are good limiters, but I feel like there should be one more element more common than a crit but less devastating.

 

Now that you've hear my case, what would you like to see in a supposed X-Wing 2.0 cardboard expansion?

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I'm homebrewing point 1 at the moment. I cannot find a pilot that would be overpowered in a different ship of the same type. 

So I'm taking the cheapest pilot and separate the named pilot by substracting that cost. 

Then assign it one or two ship roles  the pilot may fly. So Han Solo would be Freighter, where Wedge would be Space Superiority Fighter and Interceptor and Dutch Vander would be Escort Fighter and possibly some others.

 

Then just make a division of ships per role.

 

Haven't been able to spend a lot of time on it yet, here's what I have so far:

This is a redo of the game for extremely casual play. It is probably wildly unbalanced, but it might be fun to test, so hang on for a ride.
 
 
For each ship, use the lowest generic cost as the base price.
For every named pilot, subtract the cost of the lowest generic. This is the cost of the pilot. EPT slots stay with their pilot.
Let's leave the Aggressor and the IG's untouched. They are married (welded?) to their ship.
 
Divide all ships into categories.
 
Superiority Fighter
X-Wing
T-70 X-Wing
E-Wing
Z-95
ARC-170
 
Interceptors
A-Wing
E-Wing
 
Bombers/Escort
ARC-170
B-Wing
K-Wing
U-Wing
Y-Wing
HWK-290
Attack Shuttle
 
Large Ships
YT-1300
YT-2400
VCX-100
 
Each pilot classifies for one or two categories.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Base Costs (ships marked with * are estimates)
 
ARC-170 - 21*
A-Wing - 17
Attack Shuttle - 16*
B-Wing - 22
E-wing - 27
HWK-290 - 16
K-Wing - 23
T-70 X-Wing - 24
U-Wing - 23
VCX-100 - 35
X-Wing - 21
YT-1300 - 38 (using the HOTR here, ORS is too divergent from the named pilots)
YT-2400 - 30
Y-Wing - 18
Z-95 - 12
 
Pilots
Braylen Stramm - 4
Thane Kyrell - 5
Shara Bey - 7
Norra Wexley - 8
Gemmer Sojan - 5
Arvel Crynyd - 6
Jake Farrel - 7
Tycho Celchu - 9
"Zeb" Orrelios - 2
Ezra Bridger - 4
Sabine Wren - 5
Hera Syndulla - 6
Nera Dantels - 4
Ibtisam - 6
Keyan Farlander -7
Ten Numb - 9
Etahn A'baht - 5
Corran Horn - 7
Roark Garnet - 3
Kyle Katarn - 5
Jan Ors - 9
Esege Tuketu - 5
Miranda Doni - 6
Jess Pava - 1
Blue Ace - 3
Snap Wexley - 4
Nien Nunb - 5
Red Ace - 5
Ello Asty - 6
Poe Dameron - 7
Poe Dameron PS9 - 9
Captain Rex - 2
Sabine Wren - 3
Ahsoka Tano - 5
Cassian Andor - 4
Chopper - 2
Kanan Jarrus - 3
Hera Syndulla - 5
Tarn Mison - 2
Biggs Darklighter - 4
Hobbie Klivian - 4
Garven Dreis - 5
Jek Porkins - 5
Luke Skywalker - 7
Wedge Antilles - 8
Wes Janson - 8
Chewbacca - 4
Lando Calrissian - 6
Rey - 7
Han Solo - 8
Eaden Vrill - 2
Leebo - 4
Dash Rendar - 6
Dutch Vander - 5
Horton Salm - 7
Lieutenant Blount - 5
Airen Cracken - 7

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With all the fixes being requested for the game's main ship, it made me wonder if now would be the time for a so-called X-Wing 2.0. I think there are many advantages to a cardboard expansion, especially now that the devs can assess the balance in one Fel swoop now that everything's on the table. The waves are running out of ships, and every new ship doesn't seem to add much more variety with the sheer number ships there are now. Your B-wing and G1-A seem very much alike, your TIE/fos and A-Wings, and every ship is supposed to point and shoot very much the same. If such an expansion was released, I think there could be many benefits in regards to clearing "fix" clutter. We have dozens of cards that change how one specific ship is to behave and in some cases you have to buy the cards that make them better (Imperial and Rebel Aces, Integrated Astromech, Most Wanted Firespray). I'm not saying they shouldn't have done it, but I think now would be a great time to streamline all of the unique ship abilities, tweak point costs, revitalize ships archetypes, and maybe introduce new widespread mechanics. I would gladly pay for $30 bucks of cardboard as long as its a one time deal, and the game has changed for the better.

 

Here are some things that I hope to see if X-Wing 2.0 comes to fruition.

 

1. Pilots cards independent of the ship.

Tycho Celchu flew X-Wings and A-Wings, so why not have 2 listed point costs depending on what he's flying? This promotes your list building to really consider not just what, but who you are using in your squad since there can only be one Tycho Celchu.

 

2. Unique Squadron Titles

These are titles like Rogue Squadron or Phoenix Squadron that can only be applied to a squad that follows a certain formula. Your 3 X-Wings consisting of Luke, Biggs, and Porkins could be granted the Red Squadron title, giving them a unique buff since you went through the trouble of bringing them all together in a 100 point list. 

 

3.Increased weight for ship states

I love the constant internal math associated with considering your moves and actions. Am I in arc or out? Am I in range 1 and stressed? Or am I facing down 2-3 ships clustered together? Ion and Stress are good limiters, but I feel like there should be one more element more common than a crit but less devastating.

 

Now that you've hear my case, what would you like to see in a supposed X-Wing 2.0 cardboard expansion?

I was doing something like this in the beginning of the year.

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In my mind, an X-Wing 2.0 that tweaks ship stats and prices without first making changes to rules is doing things backwards.

For instance: I'd put this in the rulebook:

Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform a free action, then take a stress token.

I'd also create categories like "buff tokens" for things like Focus and Evade tokens. And "Debuff tokens" for things like stress, tractor beams, etc.

"Reposition action" would be a formal category.

Armor? Yes.

Which means Armor piercing on certain ships.

Ordnance tokens? Part of the core rules, and used for things like certain EPTs and droids. In addition to being on every Torpedo and missile.

So first, let's talk about rules updates. Once we do that, then we can figure out what stat lines and points values to assign.

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Why in the hells would you give every ship PtL? Are you that addicted?

That's just exarcebating the problem.

 

And even then, you might want to go all the way to the base and that is messing about with the phases. 

Maybe a separate action phase after maneuvers have completed. 

 

Possibly something like:

Planning

Maneuver

Action

Fire Ordnance 

Combat

Resolve Ordnance (this would reflect the time it takes for ordnance to travel)

End/cleanup

 

Of course, <torpedo> and <missile> get no range modifiers, but cannon and turrets should be subject to the same modifiers as primary weapons.

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Point 1...

 

If pilot cards are separate to ships and can fly different ships you´re going to need A LOT of different base cards for ships to show all the different permutations. If you get new pilots that can also fly already released ships, would you expect them to use  card space to give you their bases for the prior ships?

 

It´s not cost effective, nor practical, given the way the game works...

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Point 1...

 

If pilot cards are separate to ships and can fly different ships you´re going to need A LOT of different base cards for ships to show all the different permutations. If you get new pilots that can also fly already released ships, would you expect them to use  card space to give you their bases for the prior ships?

 

It´s not cost effective, nor practical, given the way the game works...

 

Nah, you modify the identifying tokens to indicate PS. You'd even end up with less bases needed, just one per ship. The rest of the cardboard can go to PS indicators.

There are on the Rebel side maybe 8 pilots in total who double up on PS's, 4 in X-Wings and 4 in T-70s, 2 per PS

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I feel like nobody has ever played a miniature game before. If this is your first, welcome to gaming. If not, then its obvious that this game is being handled extremely well, and balance issues are a common part of expanding games. New rules and ideas are the answer. The game is 4 years old. Give it another 4 before 2nd edition is even a possible idea. Maybe.

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Point 1...

 

If pilot cards are separate to ships and can fly different ships you´re going to need A LOT of different base cards for ships to show all the different permutations. If you get new pilots that can also fly already released ships, would you expect them to use  card space to give you their bases for the prior ships?

 

It´s not cost effective, nor practical, given the way the game works...

 

Nah, you modify the identifying tokens to indicate PS. You'd even end up with less bases needed, just one per ship. The rest of the cardboard can go to PS indicators.

There are on the Rebel side maybe 8 pilots in total who double up on PS's, 4 in X-Wings and 4 in T-70s, 2 per PS

So you'd sacrifice the pilot name on the base card? No difference between Luke and Tycho then, when they both fly X-wings. I wouldn't like that personally, it removes the identity of named pilots and turns them into featureless numbers. Honestly, as minor as it seems, I like seeing Luke's name on his ship as I'm playing. This idea would turn me off..

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Point 1...

 

If pilot cards are separate to ships and can fly different ships you´re going to need A LOT of different base cards for ships to show all the different permutations. If you get new pilots that can also fly already released ships, would you expect them to use  card space to give you their bases for the prior ships?

 

It´s not cost effective, nor practical, given the way the game works...

 

Nah, you modify the identifying tokens to indicate PS. You'd even end up with less bases needed, just one per ship. The rest of the cardboard can go to PS indicators.

There are on the Rebel side maybe 8 pilots in total who double up on PS's, 4 in X-Wings and 4 in T-70s, 2 per PS

So you'd sacrifice the pilot name on the base card? No difference between Luke and Tycho then, when they both fly X-wings. I wouldn't like that personally, it removes the identity of named pilots and turns them into featureless numbers. Honestly, as minor as it seems, I like seeing Luke's name on his ship as I'm playing. This idea would turn me off..

 

 

Easily fixed. 

Standard base without pilot name, one per ship. Then per pilot a token with name and PS that you stick where you place one of the identifying markers now.

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Any X-Wing 2.0 that required me to buy the ships again would be a non-starter for me.

 

So, release a conversion kit.

 

Personally I still think it was an incredible oversight not to create 4 and 5 speed maneuvers from the get go, just because the X-Wing and the TIE Fighter don't have them. 

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I'm homebrewing point 1 at the moment. I cannot find a pilot that would be overpowered in a different ship of the same type. 

So I'm taking the cheapest pilot and separate the named pilot by substracting that cost. 

Then assign it one or two ship roles  the pilot may fly. So Han Solo would be Freighter, where Wedge would be Space Superiority Fighter and Interceptor and Dutch Vander would be Escort Fighter and possibly some others.

 

Then just make a division of ships per role.

 

Haven't been able to spend a lot of time on it yet, here's what I have so far:

This is a redo of the game for extremely casual play. It is probably wildly unbalanced, but it might be fun to test, so hang on for a ride.
 
 
For each ship, use the lowest generic cost as the base price.
For every named pilot, subtract the cost of the lowest generic. This is the cost of the pilot. EPT slots stay with their pilot.
Let's leave the Aggressor and the IG's untouched. They are married (welded?) to their ship.
 
Divide all ships into categories.
 
Superiority Fighter
X-Wing
T-70 X-Wing
E-Wing
Z-95
ARC-170
 
Interceptors
A-Wing
E-Wing
 
Bombers/Escort
ARC-170
B-Wing
K-Wing
U-Wing
Y-Wing
HWK-290
Attack Shuttle
 
Large Ships
YT-1300
YT-2400
VCX-100
 
Each pilot classifies for one or two categories.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Base Costs (ships marked with * are estimates)
 
ARC-170 - 21*
A-Wing - 17
Attack Shuttle - 16*
B-Wing - 22
E-wing - 27
HWK-290 - 16
K-Wing - 23
T-70 X-Wing - 24
U-Wing - 23
VCX-100 - 35
X-Wing - 21
YT-1300 - 38 (using the HOTR here, ORS is too divergent from the named pilots)
YT-2400 - 30
Y-Wing - 18
Z-95 - 12
 
Pilots
Braylen Stramm - 4
Thane Kyrell - 5
Shara Bey - 7
Norra Wexley - 8
Gemmer Sojan - 5
Arvel Crynyd - 6
Jake Farrel - 7
Tycho Celchu - 9
"Zeb" Orrelios - 2
Ezra Bridger - 4
Sabine Wren - 5
Hera Syndulla - 6
Nera Dantels - 4
Ibtisam - 6
Keyan Farlander -7
Ten Numb - 9
Etahn A'baht - 5
Corran Horn - 7
Roark Garnet - 3
Kyle Katarn - 5
Jan Ors - 9
Esege Tuketu - 5
Miranda Doni - 6
Jess Pava - 1
Blue Ace - 3
Snap Wexley - 4
Nien Nunb - 5
Red Ace - 5
Ello Asty - 6
Poe Dameron - 7
Poe Dameron PS9 - 9
Captain Rex - 2
Sabine Wren - 3
Ahsoka Tano - 5
Cassian Andor - 4
Chopper - 2
Kanan Jarrus - 3
Hera Syndulla - 5
Tarn Mison - 2
Biggs Darklighter - 4
Hobbie Klivian - 4
Garven Dreis - 5
Jek Porkins - 5
Luke Skywalker - 7
Wedge Antilles - 8
Wes Janson - 8
Chewbacca - 4
Lando Calrissian - 6
Rey - 7
Han Solo - 8
Eaden Vrill - 2
Leebo - 4
Dash Rendar - 6
Dutch Vander - 5
Horton Salm - 7
Lieutenant Blount - 5
Airen Cracken - 7

 

Yeah! It would be cool to have all of the thematic pilot and ship combos. Keyan in B's, Y's, and X's. Jess Pava and Ten Numb might be an issue, Jess is really good on the right ship, and Ten Numb is way too expensive.

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I don't like the idea of pilots being separated from the ships, people who have played Star Trek Attack Fleet can tell you how bad this can get in regards to balancing. X-Wing on the whole is a very good game and while it could use a few things here or there it isn't anything crazy enough to warrent a 2.0 at this point. Besides, lets be honest about this X-Wing is highly profitable and making a new edition could lead to confusing people who have just bought in or in other words less sales. I suspect if we are going to see a second edition of the game it will have to be after the sequel trilogy is done as I'd imagine they want to continue making money off of the movie ship waves, and the currently high interest in Star Wars.

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