Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
VaeVictis

Rogue One Discussion Thread

Recommended Posts

A guy I know posted this elsewhere online regarding critiques of character development. I think it sums it up perfectly.

Criticising a Star Wars film for not having character development is punching down - Star Wars films rely heavily on pre-established literary and cinema tropes developed throughout history to tell you all you need to know about the character in a short amount of time. Han Solo - in the first five minutes of meeting him we know he's a braggart, a scoundrel, (provided you watch the correct version) a murderer, and since a throwaway line about dropping his cargo, a chicken ****) He then turns that all around at the end and waits until the fights over to help save the day (so he's also an opportunist.) That's it. You get very little else for his screen time. The rest of Han's story is told through the rest of the films and the (mostly ******* woeful) EU.

Cassian Andor is introduced in a similar way - we see that he's clearly not above doing what needs to be done because he's fighting a losing battle against an implacable foe. As for Jyn, everything we need to know about her - abandonment issues, raised by a rebellion fanatic, abandoned again, clearly been on the wrong side of the Empire so hates them( why? Well, why does Luke hate the Empire? We're never told) and then when she's given an opportunity to learn that her father wasn't a shitguts, and she may be able to rescue him... so on and so forth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read the entire thread, but I am seeing a lot of unbridled positivity here, so I have a couple of questions to ask. To be completely forthcoming, the movie overall just didn't do it for me. I thought that the plot was poorly paced and disjointed and the character development was lacking so that the only character I cared about losing was k2-s0 ( who was awesome by the way!). This is not to say that the movie did not have its strengths. The end (the whole third act) was awesome, I just thought that it lacked the weight it deserved due to the lackluster lead up. Now for the questions:

Do any of you agree with me about the plot pacing and character development?

Do you agree that the scarif scenes were by far the best part of the movie and deserved more of the movie?

If you answered yes to these questions, I would say that the easiest way this could have been solved would have been to have and opening credit scroll. This could have established much of the background without the awkward exposition and character introductions. We could have then started at the point where the team is trying to get bodhi from saw. The background could have then been established through a few well timed flashbacks to jyns childhood. You may argue that the opening credits would make it too similar to the main series films, but heavy use of flashbacks would give it enough of its own feel as the force vision Rey has in seven is the only flashback in the series so far.

Thoughts?

Scarif was the best part of the movie, but would it be better with more screen time? I don't feel like there is anything missing there.

Opening crawl. All the non-Star Wars movies somehow manage to live without it. In the episodes the crawl conveys very general informations, you can't use it to introduce characters, and I think cutting the first act to make the third one longer would make the character developement even worse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A guy I know posted this elsewhere online regarding critiques of character development. I think it sums it up perfectly.

Criticising a Star Wars film for not having character development is punching down - Star Wars films rely heavily on pre-established literary and cinema tropes developed throughout history to tell you all you need to know about the character in a short amount of time. Han Solo - in the first five minutes of meeting him we know he's a braggart, a scoundrel, (provided you watch the correct version) a murderer, and since a throwaway line about dropping his cargo, a chicken ****) He then turns that all around at the end and waits until the fights over to help save the day (so he's also an opportunist.) That's it. You get very little else for his screen time. The rest of Han's story is told through the rest of the films and the (mostly ******* woeful) EU.

Cassian Andor is introduced in a similar way - we see that he's clearly not above doing what needs to be done because he's fighting a losing battle against an implacable foe. As for Jyn, everything we need to know about her - abandonment issues, raised by a rebellion fanatic, abandoned again, clearly been on the wrong side of the Empire so hates them( why? Well, why does Luke hate the Empire? We're never told) and then when she's given an opportunity to learn that her father wasn't a shitguts, and she may be able to rescue him... so on and so forth.

Han rescued a princess and saved Luke - twice. Jyn had an important daddy, and even that is debatable. What it really comes down to, though, is that Han has 30+ years of nostalgia, veneration, and rose-tinted lenses, whereas Jyn has a heap of trailers, excess merchandising, and other marketing hype that she completely failed to live up to.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as a movie, Rogue One was imo pretty mediocre with some decently likable characters and a lot of flashy bits

 

but as a tie-in to the franchise, oh boy

 

 

Rogue One is probably the first time we get to witness imperial might in a visceral way. Sure, we had alderan going boom in A New Hope, but that was just a prop and a lot of dust (and millions of voices crying out...suddenly silenced)

 

(well, there was the walker assault on hoth too, but that pales in comparison to what transpires)

 

 

but here, the movie had the balls to drop rocks on everyone

 

if you think about it, it was an utter bloodbath of a film that does two things very very well

 

1.) sets up the empire as a proper, impossibly massive threat that requires the heroic actual permanent sacrifice of many brave individuals (in large quantities) to even begin to stand up to

 

2.) gives Tarkin and Vader very little screen time, but very quickly and effectively shows us how utterly terrifying they can be

 

Tarkin's cold annhilation of the compromised plans on Scarif

 

Vader just butchering those poor mooks

 

 

 

also Krennic's just deserts were amazingly delivered, showing us that the empire is too huge a thing to care about the petty individuals that keep the cog in its machines churning. I actually winced at how he was taken out because ooh boy it is sheer brutality

 

 

 

as a stand alone movie...meh

 

but it definitely offers us a look of star wars that we had never been privy to before

Edited by ficklegreendice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been reading this thread on and off for about a week, chasing the end of it so I can comment, and I finally got here.

 

1. My main hope before seeing the movie was that all the main heroes would die at the end.  One of the earliest stated intentions was to bring the war back to star wars and I think this was achieved.  So I got my wish, then got to see Vader go nuts on a corridor-full of troopers.  Loved it.

 

2. I thought Tarkin was great.  The first time I watched the film I thought it was the best case of lookalike/prosthetic makeup I'd seen.  After trying to google the actor I found out the truth and could see it on my next viewing, but it was still impressive.  Leia less so, I thought she looked too CGI the first time.

 

3. During the scene in Saw's hideout, one of the villains playing the physical dejarik game slammed down some dice on a table.  They didn't roll, just slammed down in his hand.  It was official warning material if I was ever a TO.  Anyway just as he does this, he yells out "Houjix" - the name of one of the creatures: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Houjix

 

4. Glad to see the WonderWAAAGH back, but I understand how many aren't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

I have a question for y'all. Did anyone else notice the TIE Phantom plans in the movie?

Where?

When?

Please...

When several of the plans are shown on the monitor that they're using to find the Death Star plans.
 

Going to need to see a screenshot of that one...as I recall that scene, we only got a brief look at the computer screen (and it was just a list in Aurabesh text) before the camera angle switched to looking at Jyn and Cassian's faces from the side as Jyn read the names...screen definitely out of view.

If you

remember the camera cuts back to the screen while Jyn is reading the list.

 

Looks like a regular TIE fighter to me.

 

31046556523_fb701e07cb_b.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After earning my doctorate degree and moving across the country, I finally got to see this movie Friday night. Here are some of my thoughts.

I was a victim of the hype train. Vader's assault was strangely lackluster. Now, this may be in part because my brother-in-law bought late-night tickets, and I was tired, but I couldn't help but think, "Great, another show of force where the dark Lord fails once again." I'm very much looking forward to seeing this movie again to rectify those thoughts.

The space battle was likewise disappointing. As an X-wing miniatures fan I was really hoping for the tight squad tactics and banter that we saw in episodes IV & VI. However, what I saw came across much more like Armada, where starfighter squadrons are an expendable support unit for the capital ships. I'm glad I waited to post these thoughts because my statement above about seeing the movie so late at night has been an epiphany, and I need to see this movie again.

Because for some reason I REALLY enjoyed the first half of the movie. I was hanging on every word, and relishing every detail about these new characters. It didn't seem jumpy or disjointed at all. When the heroes each died, it hit me pretty hard. I wasn't expecting a total party kill from a Star Wars movie, which probably helps to explain my mixed emotions when the movie ended.

I think CGI Tarkin bothered me a little, but I was able to suspend my disbelief. As a side note, it wasn't until a week after I had seen Tron Legacy that I learned CLU was all CGI, so I may not be as in tune to that sort of thing.

I cheered when the Y-wings used their bombs and ion torpedoes, but I cringed hard when that disabled star destroyer sliced into the other one. I've read all the pros and cons about that in this thread, so I'll just leave that as my opinion.

Overall, a very good Star Wars movie, but I think I'm still on a The Force Awakens (read "Kylo Ren") high. Maybe I'll like Rogue One more with a second viewing. After all, TFA made me really sad after my first viewing with Han's death, and for some reason the deaths of the T-70 pilots rocked me, too. Maybe I'm just not used to action movies :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't read the entire thread, but I am seeing a lot of unbridled positivity here, so I have a couple of questions to ask. To be completely forthcoming, the movie overall just didn't do it for me. I thought that the plot was poorly paced and disjointed and the character development was lacking so that the only character I cared about losing was k2-s0 ( who was awesome by the way!). This is not to say that the movie did not have its strengths. The end (the whole third act) was awesome, I just thought that it lacked the weight it deserved due to the lackluster lead up.

I feel the same way, it had some great parts but also some not-so-great ones. I wonder if part of the raving is due to people wanting a "darker" version of Star Wars and overlooking the shortcomings because they got the feel and atmosphere they were looking for. At the end of the day, different people like different things but I didn't enjoy R1 the way I enjoyed TFA.

Yeah, love K-2SO though. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A guy I know posted this elsewhere online regarding critiques of character development. I think it sums it up perfectly.

Criticising a Star Wars film for not having character development is punching down - Star Wars films rely heavily on pre-established literary and cinema tropes developed throughout history to tell you all you need to know about the character in a short amount of time. Han Solo - in the first five minutes of meeting him we know he's a braggart, a scoundrel, (provided you watch the correct version) a murderer, and since a throwaway line about dropping his cargo, a chicken ****) He then turns that all around at the end and waits until the fights over to help save the day (so he's also an opportunist.) That's it. You get very little else for his screen time. The rest of Han's story is told through the rest of the films and the (mostly ******* woeful) EU.

Cassian Andor is introduced in a similar way - we see that he's clearly not above doing what needs to be done because he's fighting a losing battle against an implacable foe. As for Jyn, everything we need to know about her - abandonment issues, raised by a rebellion fanatic, abandoned again, clearly been on the wrong side of the Empire so hates them( why? Well, why does Luke hate the Empire? We're never told) and then when she's given an opportunity to learn that her father wasn't a shitguts, and she may be able to rescue him... so on and so forth.

Han rescued a princess and saved Luke - twice. Jyn had an important daddy, and even that is debatable. What it really comes down to, though, is that Han has 30+ years of nostalgia, veneration, and rose-tinted lenses, whereas Jyn has a heap of trailers, excess merchandising, and other marketing hype that she completely failed to live up to.

Wait, does that make her Boba Fett?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a mistake watching Ep VII at midnight being so tired. Worst mistake ever. Every movie is much worse watching tired. I liked it, but I was not in a very good mood, ruining the movie a bit for myself.

 

I also watched Episode VII at midnight.  I thought it was OK, but wasn't blown away by it.  That was nothing to do with me being tired though, it's just not a very good movie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a mistake watching Ep VII at midnight being so tired. Worst mistake ever. Every movie is much worse watching tired. I liked it, but I was not in a very good mood, ruining the movie a bit for myself.

 

I also watched Episode VII at midnight.  I thought it was OK, but wasn't blown away by it.  That was nothing to do with me being tired though, it's just not a very good movie.

You are right it is not the best one, but much worse for me watching tired ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was better than the prequels Episodes I-III, so it had that going for it at least.  But it definitely felt more of a remake than a sequel.  And Starkiller Base was just such a godawful idea.  I was hyped by the trailers, I defended JJ prior to watching the film asking for people to wait and see.  But when I saw just how much of a cut-and-paste job he'd done from A New Hope...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was better than the prequels Episodes I-III, so it had that going for it at least.  But it definitely felt more of a remake than a sequel.  And Starkiller Base was just such a godawful idea.  I was hyped by the trailers, I defended JJ prior to watching the film asking for people to wait and see.  But when I saw just how much of a cut-and-paste job he'd done from A New Hope...

Sorry, I accidentally press "report" instead of "quote". Yes I think the movie was just neccessary, but still kind of a remake. I am sure they have more freedom to operate for Episode VIII

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another thing I forgot to mention in my original post in this thread: Michael Giacchino, go home and leave Star Wars to John Williams (or a better successor). I love your music, but much like Hans Zimmer re-using similar themes, it's jarring when you made Rogue One sound like LOST and the 2009 Star Trek (looking at you, Captain Kirk Sr.'s death scene, and you, ISDs plunging into the Scarif shield ring).

 

 

Regarding the pacing issue that's come back up, I agree that the first act feels disjointed because we're getting so many characters, but as has been said before here, it's a "dirty dozen"-type of film where instead of our 3-5 intrepid heroes we're used to in the Star Wars universe, we have 6 characters working to accomplish a mission. So, to a degree, we only get as much as we absolutely need to about each of them - to an extent, relying on those archetypes someone posted about their friend having mentioned. Cassian is disillusioned with the "noble" Rebellion but fighting on because he believes it's the right thing to do; Jyn is jaded because of her childhood & abandonment with Saw* and wants nothing to do with the Rebellion; K-2SO is a spunky but sarcastic sidekick in robot form (and a leaf on the wind), whom we care about because of his humour and prowess which combine to make his "death" poignant; Chirrut and Baze are supporters of the good who are mirror images of each other in that Baze's physical sight works fine but he is blind to the spiritual world, whereas Chirrut sees via the Force and hilariously does not need a hood over his head to prevent him from seeing the way to Henneth Annûn; Bodhi is a loyal retainer who wants to prove his change & worth to the good guys who seem to be set on disregarding him; and Krennic is the maniacal villain whose ambition we can all abhor because it points to our darkest selves. The rest (Vader, Tarkin, Mothma, Organa...), we know already and just need them to show up and do their thing.

I greatly enjoyed the character arcs of Cassian and Jyn, their cynicism playing off each other to get them to the point where they can work together for a common goal; Cassian being "redeemed" by choosing to stop compromising his morals but continue fighting the baddies and Jyn taking a stand despite the pain it will cause her. That's the purpose of the hero's journey.

 

*Having only made it half-way through TCW so far and not having started Rebels, Saw was one character who felt underdeveloped to the point that he's just a plot device (who doesn't need to be a plot device, if Bodhi had ended up somewhere else). (Wait. My quip about Henneth Annûn above has made me think that Saw is playing a role similar to Faramir {in the books}: although the heroes need his help, he does not join them on their way, but diverts the quest so we can understand the peril in which it stands. This may help me at least better understand him, without backstory.)

 

As far as jumping between planets, yes, that felt disjointed - but others have argued that Krennic's uncanny ability to arrive precisely where & when the good guys go feels forced, so which do we want? Serendipity that makes it feel less disjointed, or "realistically" hopping around the galaxy to assemble a team and then have them follow up on leads to various & sundry planets to accomplish their mission at the same time as the baddie tries to lock down those leads? We couldn't have many of our best literary elements if there weren't allowance for coincidence (I would argue, at least).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's some beautiful ironies in the film. Galen "know that everything I do, I do to protect you" (his daughter ends up being killed by the weapon he himself built). Krennic's demise at the hands of his rival worked brilliantly as well.

And the events of the film throw Tarkin's decision to ignore the Rebel threat in a New Hope into a new light as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes, the music. I totally forgot to mention that. The first few notes sounded like Star Wars in the opening, but then the song took a turn. I understand he/they made this choice to set the movie apart from the saga movies, but it had the unfortunate side effect: it made the statement to me that, "The movie you are about to see is a parody, just like Spaceballs, Thumb Wars, and so many others you've seen." It didn't end up ruining the movie for me, but it did leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Why not Michael Mark Griskey to score this!!??

Also, just want to throw out there that Revenge of the Sith was easily my favorite Star Wars movie for the 5 years after I saw it. So, yeah, I'm a prequel lover. Heck I love all the Star Wars!

Edited by Parakitor

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes, the music. I totally forgot to mention that. The first few notes sounded like Star Wars in the opening, but then the song took a turn. I understand he/they made this choice to set the movie apart from the saga movies, but it had the unfortunate side effect: it made the statement to me that, "The movie you are about to see is a parody, just like Spaceballs, Thumb Wars, and so many others you've seen." It didn't end up ruining the movie for me, but it did leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Why not Michael Griskey to score this!!??

Also, just want to throw out there that Revenge of the Sith was easily my favorite Star Wars movie for the 5 years after I saw it. So, yeah, I'm a prequel lover. Heck I love all the Star Wars!

You definitely aren't alone in regards to enjoying the prequels, however, I have to say Episode 1 was my favourite of the prequels. I just loved everything about it. Then Episode 3, then 2 was my least favourite (both in prequels and in SW movies altogether), though I did thoroughly enjoy some parts. Rogue One though.... dang did I love that movie, definitely somewhere in my top 3. Sure the beginning was slow, but that second half was just intense. I am still not over the battle on the ground of Jedha, Scarif and the space battle above Scarif. They really did Star Wars battles justice with this film. My biggest gripe of Rogue One though was the music. I thought it was terrible, probably because we are so spoiled from having John Williams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes, the music. I totally forgot to mention that. The first few notes sounded like Star Wars in the opening, but then the song took a turn. I understand he/they made this choice to set the movie apart from the saga movies, but it had the unfortunate side effect: it made the statement to me that, "The movie you are about to see is a parody, just like Spaceballs, Thumb Wars, and so many others you've seen." It didn't end up ruining the movie for me, but it did leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Why not Michael Mark Griskey to score this!!??

Also, just want to throw out there that Revenge of the Sith was easily my favorite Star Wars movie for the 5 years after I saw it. So, yeah, I'm a prequel lover. Heck I love all the Star Wars!

At first I felt that way, I was completely unimpressed by the sound track and the few times I got excited were the when the Imperial March or familiar motifs played and that choral piece during the Vader scene. However since then i've been listening to the soundtrack and its actually pretty great upon multiple listens. Then I realized something, musically the Empire is not nearly as exciting in the original Star Wars then they are in Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. 

 

For me the same happened with the Force Awakens. I was wholly unimpressed with the score but by the third time around certain themes really grew on me such as Kylo Ren's and the stairs to the jedi temple.

 

I think it has more to do, at least with me, with familiarity. I'm a younger fan, sort've. My entire life i've known the music of the Original Trilogy and then I grew up with the music from the prequels (say what you will about the prequels themselves but the music was classic kickass Williams.) So with both trilogies there is nostalgia and life long familiarity. In the case of the Force Awakens and Rogue One, well they're babies in comparison. 

 

If I were you, i'd look up Krennic's Aspirations, the Imperial Suite, Hope, and the Rogue One theme on youtube and just listen. Don't stress about whether you like or dislike it. Just listen, i'm not saying you will, but you may come to appreciate them better.  

Edited by Forresto

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Oh yes, the music. I totally forgot to mention that. The first few notes sounded like Star Wars in the opening, but then the song took a turn. I understand he/they made this choice to set the movie apart from the saga movies, but it had the unfortunate side effect: it made the statement to me that, "The movie you are about to see is a parody, just like Spaceballs, Thumb Wars, and so many others you've seen." It didn't end up ruining the movie for me, but it did leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Why not Michael Mark Griskey to score this!!??

Also, just want to throw out there that Revenge of the Sith was easily my favorite Star Wars movie for the 5 years after I saw it. So, yeah, I'm a prequel lover. Heck I love all the Star Wars!

At first I felt that way, I was completely unimpressed by the sound track and the few times I got excited were the when the Imperial March or familiar motifs played and that choral piece during the Vader scene. However since then i've been listening to the soundtrack and its actually pretty great upon multiple listens. Then I realized something, musically the Empire is not nearly as exciting in the original Star Wars then they are in Empire Strikes Back or Return of the Jedi. 

 

For me the same happened with the Force Awakens. I was wholly unimpressed with the score but by the third time around certain themes really grew on me such as Kylo Ren's and the stairs to the jedi temple.

 

I think it has more to do, at least with me, with familiarity. I'm a younger fan, sort've. My entire life i've known the music of the Original Trilogy and then I grew up with the music from the prequels (say what you will about the prequels themselves but the music was classic kickass Williams.) So with both trilogies there is nostalgia and life long familiarity. In the case of the Force Awakens and Rogue One, well they're babies in comparison. 

 

If I were you, i'd look up Krennic's Aspirations, the Imperial Suite, Hope, and the Rogue One theme on youtube and just listen. Don't stress about whether you like or dislike it. Just listen, i'm not saying you will, but you may come to appreciate them better.  

 

I'll definitely have to give it a go. It's a little hard when my favorite composer, James Newton Howard, just did an AMAZING job on Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find them, and then I go see a Star Wars movie with a not-so standout score. Still, I bet it will grow on me, because The Force Awakens soundtrack is definitely a favorite album in my house, but it didn't start out that way (okay, Rey's theme was jaw-drop gorgeous the moment I heard it, but Kylo's theme needed a second listen before it engulfed me).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A guy I know posted this elsewhere online regarding critiques of character development. I think it sums it up perfectly.

Criticising a Star Wars film for not having character development is punching down - Star Wars films rely heavily on pre-established literary and cinema tropes developed throughout history to tell you all you need to know about the character in a short amount of time. Han Solo - in the first five minutes of meeting him we know he's a braggart, a scoundrel, (provided you watch the correct version) a murderer, and since a throwaway line about dropping his cargo, a chicken ****) He then turns that all around at the end and waits until the fights over to help save the day (so he's also an opportunist.) That's it. You get very little else for his screen time. The rest of Han's story is told through the rest of the films and the (mostly ******* woeful) EU.

Cassian Andor is introduced in a similar way - we see that he's clearly not above doing what needs to be done because he's fighting a losing battle against an implacable foe. As for Jyn, everything we need to know about her - abandonment issues, raised by a rebellion fanatic, abandoned again, clearly been on the wrong side of the Empire so hates them( why? Well, why does Luke hate the Empire? We're never told) and then when she's given an opportunity to learn that her father wasn't a shitguts, and she may be able to rescue him... so on and so forth.

Han rescued a princess and saved Luke - twice. Jyn had an important daddy, and even that is debatable. What it really comes down to, though, is that Han has 30+ years of nostalgia, veneration, and rose-tinted lenses, whereas Jyn has a heap of trailers, excess merchandising, and other marketing hype that she completely failed to live up to.

Wait, does that make her Boba Fett?

I suspect that another thirty years won't be any kinder to Jyn, but who knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so I saw this a third time yesterday because my younger brother wanted to go. It's still great. This has likely already tied the total number of times I see The Force Awakens across the span of my life (allotting that I'll probably see it once more, at some point); it's that much better of a movie on pretty much every level. The world building is phenomenal. This is the first Star Wars movie that really feels like what it is supposed to be: a galaxy where an outmanned and outgunned rebellion fights against an oppressive empire solely supplanting a freer republic that preceded it. Only Empire gets close to this level. The battle at Scarif is still phenomenal.

 

I feel like it's fairly clear that there are some people who still don't really understand the genre Rogue One inhabits, and it's entirely possible that they aren't fans of war movies. And it's not a swipe at those people. Not everyone shares the same tastes in films, or appreciates every genre (I don't understand how anyone would pay money or time to watch a movie with Marlon Wayans in it, for example, and yet his films continue to be profitable). But Rogue One is, very clearly, a war movie aimed at a slightly different demographic than the sequential series. Disney paid $4B for Star Wars, and it wants to sell Star Wars to more than just the existing Star Wars market. The Jedis and Lightsabers crowd that still loves the prequels and stuff like Rebels or Clone Wars may have come to expect something else from Star Wars, and Rogue One was a different movie than they wanted.

 

A lot of the complaints have been about characterization, but that's mostly because those viewers don't realize that Rogue One is a film not unlike Inglorious Basterds, The Dirty Dozen, or even Saving Private Ryan. What can anyone tell me about Donny other than he speaks Italian "third best"?  What do we know about Ryben other than his jacket says Brooklyn on it and he complains a lot?  You see, for a war film, a large part of the characterization comes from the characters' shared struggle. They are soldiers in a war, where survival and success are the only things that matter to the story. More importantly, they are any of us. 

And that's where the criticisms of characterization in this film are nothing more than opinions of people who don't normally watch war movies, and not a legitimate criticism of the strengths and weaknesses of Rogue One. 

 

Now, mind you, I've said from the beginning that Rogue One is far from perfect. And certainly it's not nearly as good as The Inglorious Basterds or Saving Private Ryan, but you can't criticize Rogue One for sharing those structural elements without also criticizing those films too. There's no sense in criticizing Rogue One for doing Star Wars things, or its characters for not being very deep. Cassian Andor, Bohdi Rook, even Jyn Erso, these aren't supposed to be fleshed out characters, because the audience is supposed to understand that these characters can be anyone. Just as they would understand if they watched a movie about a more accessible and familiar setting (like World War 2) and saw soldiers with a mission. And I think this is where some viewers have struggled with Rogue One. They don't understand, or just don't care for war movies, so they don't recognize that a movie like Rogue One has no time, nor need, to tell us more about the soldiers. And while their likes and dislikes in movies is not invalidated, it's important to understand that their criticism of the movie is like my criticism of a country music concert. I hate country music. It might have been the best country concert ever, but I still would have had a horrible time. 

 

But if anything, in 30 years, audiences will better appreciate Rogue One. They won't be harsher to it. Down the road, Rogue One will be appreciated for what it is, instead of being improperly compared to the sequential films.

 

After three viewings, Rogue One still basically has the same minor flaws for me. The story stilts a bit early on, taking some time to get going. And I think they could have better utilized Saw Gerrera. Donnie Yen beating up Stormtroopers like they're extras in a Bruce Lee movie and his sidekick Captain Aimbot are a bit too effective for Star Wars, and this seems to be the ugly head of Chinese marketing poking into the film. The scene between Vader and Krennic is completely pointless, and reeks of somebody saying "This movie doesn't have enough Darth Vader in it" (though personally I loved seeing Vader in the bacta tank; I thought that specific part was cool context for the character). The ending opens some holes in the dialog at the beginning of Episode 4. I have some other tiny quibbles (like, where did Saw's partisans all run to?), but ultimately, this film has entered into my Top 3 for Star Wars movies. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am looking forward to it. I won't be seeing it for a while though, because I can't stand crazy packed theatres. I like having a "private screening" so to speak.

Still must agree with this truth though:

 

Besides we all know who got to it first. :P

kyle_katarn_s_opinion_on_disney_and_luca

 

 

DO NOT CLICK IF YOU DON'T WANT SPOILERS. YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!

Kyle Katan & Jan Ors didn't die, Jyn Orso and Cassian Andor did. We know who did a better job at steeling the Death Star plans. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, so I saw this a third time yesterday because my younger brother wanted to go. It's still great. This has likely already tied the total number of times I see The Force Awakens across the span of my life (allotting that I'll probably see it once more, at some point); it's that much better of a movie on pretty much every level. The world building is phenomenal. This is the first Star Wars movie that really feels like what it is supposed to be: a galaxy where an outmanned and outgunned rebellion fights against an oppressive empire solely supplanting a freer republic that preceded it. Only Empire gets close to this level. The battle at Scarif is still phenomenal. I feel like it's fairly clear that there are some people who still don't really understand the genre Rogue One inhabits, and it's entirely possible that they aren't fans of war movies. And it's not a swipe at those people. Not everyone shares the same tastes in films, or appreciates every genre (I don't understand how anyone would pay money or time to watch a movie with Marlon Wayans in it, for example, and yet his films continue to be profitable). But Rogue One is, very clearly, a war movie aimed at a slightly different demographic than the sequential series. Disney paid $4B for Star Wars, and it wants to sell Star Wars to more than just the existing Star Wars market. The Jedis and Lightsabers crowd that still loves the prequels and stuff like Rebels or Clone Wars may have come to expect something else from Star Wars, and Rogue One was a different movie than they wanted. A lot of the complaints have been about characterization, but that's mostly because those viewers don't realize that Rogue One is a film not unlike Inglorious Basterds, The Dirty Dozen, or even Saving Private Ryan. What can anyone tell me about Donny other than he speaks Italian "third best"? What do we know about Ryben other than his jacket says Brooklyn on it and he complains a lot? You see, for a war film, a large part of the characterization comes from the characters' shared struggle. They are soldiers in a war, where survival and success are the only things that matter to the story. More importantly, they are any of us. And that's where the criticisms of characterization in this film are nothing more than opinions of people who don't normally watch war movies, and not a legitimate criticism of the strengths and weaknesses of Rogue One. Now, mind you, I've said from the beginning that Rogue One is far from perfect. And certainly it's not nearly as good as The Inglorious Basterds or Saving Private Ryan, but you can't criticize Rogue One for sharing those structural elements without also criticizing those films too. There's no sense in criticizing Rogue One for doing Star Wars things, or its characters for not being very deep. Cassian Andor, Bohdi Rook, even Jyn Erso, these aren't supposed to be fleshed out characters, because the audience is supposed to understand that these characters can be anyone. Just as they would understand if they watched a movie about a more accessible and familiar setting (like World War 2) and saw soldiers with a mission. And I think this is where some viewers have struggled with Rogue One. They don't understand, or just don't care for war movies, so they don't recognize that a movie like Rogue One has no time, nor need, to tell us more about the soldiers. And while their likes and dislikes in movies is not invalidated, it's important to understand that their criticism of the movie is like my criticism of a country music concert. I hate country music. It might have been the best country concert ever, but I still would have had a horrible time. But if anything, in 30 years, audiences will better appreciate Rogue One. They won't be harsher to it. Down the road, Rogue One will be appreciated for what it is, instead of being improperly compared to the sequential films. After three viewings, Rogue One still basically has the same minor flaws for me. The story stilts a bit early on, taking some time to get going. And I think they could have better utilized Saw Gerrera. Donnie Yen beating up Stormtroopers like they're extras in a Bruce Lee movie and his sidekick Captain Aimbot are a bit too effective for Star Wars, and this seems to be the ugly head of Chinese marketing poking into the film. The scene between Vader and Krennic is completely pointless, and reeks of somebody saying "This movie doesn't have enough Darth Vader in it" (though personally I loved seeing Vader in the bacta tank; I thought that specific part was cool context for the character). The ending opens some holes in the dialog at the beginning of Episode 4. I have some other tiny quibbles (like, where did Saw's partisans all run to?), but ultimately, this film has entered into my Top 3 for Star Wars movies.

Oh, we understand just fine, but we still don't like it. Pretending that it's supposed to be a terrible war movie doesn't suddenly stop making it a terrible Star Wars movie. There are ways of delivering an authentic Star Wars experience that don't involve lightsabers, but this one is just dripping with mediocrity. Like I said, in 30 years time this'll be right up there with the prequels and special editions.

Edited by WonderWAAAGH

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...