[Rules Lawyering] Move cannot be used to throw people.

[MB -Fr- 172]

1 hour ago, Daeglan said:

to what purpose? why would you move the deathstar around if you arent going to hurl it

So that this superlaser fires into space rather than the planet you're on?

[Daeglan 5,950]

6 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

So that this superlaser fires into space rather than the planet you're on?

that would require moving it more than range upgrades can handle unless you have a silly force rating. at which point why is it a problem considering the XP level.  It also would be an opposed check. since the vehicle is under the command of someone. 

Edited February 18 by Daeglan

[MB -Fr- 172]

1 minute ago, Daeglan said:

that would require moving it more than range upgrages can handle unless you have a silly force rating. at which point why is it a problem considering the XP level. 

wasn't saying it didn't need silly amounts of xp and rule breaking, you were asking for a motivation about moving the DS without hurling it into the sky, that would be one

[micheldebruyn 1,092]

Lets move away from the Death Star to something more practical: a Star Destroyer. Which have been known to hover menacingly over cities in atmosphere. You can just pick that thing up and gently put it down on top of some Imperial base you don't like the look of.

Or gently tip over AT-ATs ... Get a jet pack and you can easily do that at close range.

The only thing that really keeps this power in check is a player's unwillingness to break the setting.

[Daeglan 5,950]

4 minutes ago, micheldebruyn said:

Lets move away from the Death Star to something more practical: a Star Destroyer. Which have been known to hover menacingly over cities in atmosphere. You can just pick that thing up and gently put it down on top of some Imperial base you don't like the look of.

Or gently tip over AT-ATs ... Get a jet pack and you can easily do that at close range.

The only thing that really keeps this power in check is a player's unwillingness to break the setting.

yes you can. and that fits with in the setting. so the game covers it. Luke tipped over an ATAT in a book. Starkiller pulled a Star Destroyer out of the sky. such events have happened. So the rules cover it. Why is this bad? It takes silly amounts of XP but is doable. 

Edited February 18 by Daeglan

[emsquared 779]

46 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

So that this superlaser fires into space rather than the planet you're on?

Ohmilawd, again, you've not got the range.

Science nerds put the Death Star at 50,000 MILES from Alderaan. Assuming that's its standard operating distance, it's well, WELL, outside of the realm of possibility.

Given that Planetary Long is up to "200+" km, generously, that's in the neighborhood of 200 Planetary Extreme Range Bands, right?

But for fun, let's say it is a single Planetary Extreme Range Band.

Given that Max Range upgrades in Move put you at Personal Extreme for 1 pip (that's Planetary Close), you're looking at... what... 16 pips (1 Close+1 Short+2 Medium+4 Long+8 Extreme), on top of still needing to get your Sil upgrade pips?

Not happening unless you have a literal god-level PC. In which case they should be able to do that.

Star Destroyer? STILL looking at 100 km (Earth-like) to the Mesosphere (where the atmosphere begins to get thick enough to start burning things up). STILL looking at Planetary Long, minimum (and GM is 100% within their rights to say it's further). So STILL not ever happening, unless you have a demi god-level PC.

In which case, again, they should be able to do it.

You're STILL Chicken Little-ing this.

Edited February 18 by emsquared

[MB -Fr- 172]

6 minutes ago, emsquared said:

Ohmilawd, again, you've not got the range.

Science nerds put the Death Star at 50,000 MILES from Alderaan. Assuming that's its standard operating distance, it's well, WELL, outside of the realm of possibility.

Given that Planetary Long is up to "200+" km, generously, that's in the neighborhood of 200 Planetary Extreme Range Bands, right?

But for fun, let's say it is a single Planetary Extreme Range Band.

Given that Max Range upgrades in Move put you at Personal Extreme for 1 pip (that's Planetary Close), you're looking at... what... 16 pips (1 Close+1 Short+2 Medium+4 Long+8 Extreme), on top of still needing to get your Sil upgrade pips?

Not happening unless you have a literal god-level PC. In which case they should be able to do that.

Star Destroyer? STILL looking at 100 km (Earth-like) to the Mesosphere (where the atmosphere begins to get thick enough to start burning things up). STILL looking at Planetary Long, minimum (and GM is 100% within their rights to say it's further). So STILL not ever happening, unless you have a demi god-level PC.

In which case, again, they should be able to do it.

You're STILL Chicken Little-ing this.

 

41 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

wasn't saying it didn't need silly amounts of xp and rule breaking, you were asking for a motivation about moving the DS without hurling it into the sky, that would be one

Gotta repeat this?

[emsquared 779]

1 minute ago, MB -Fr- said:

Gotta repeat this?

 

9 minutes ago, emsquared said:

they should be able to do that.

Gotta repeat this?

[MB -Fr- 172]

3 minutes ago, emsquared said:

 

Gotta repeat this?

impressive way to miss the point

I answered a question about motivation, which I pointed in my later answer, you threw rules at me

That was what I pointed... duh

Edited February 18 by MB -Fr-

[Daeglan 5,950]

Just now, MB -Fr- said:

impressive way to miss the point

I answered a question about motivation, which I pointed in my later answer, you threw rules at me

That was what I pointed... duh

I think you missed the point that it is not really doable given the constraints of the system and the point which people tend to stop a campaign

 

[emsquared 779]

2 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

impressive way to miss the point

Mmm, yes, a little like how by engaging in the premise, you're... engaging in the premise.

Impressive way to pretend you didn't.

[MB -Fr- 172]

amused

I answered a question "why would you do that?" and later pointed that I was ALSO of the opinion that it would be silly and rule breaking

56 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

wasn't saying it didn't need silly amounts of xp and rule breaking, you were asking for a motivation about moving the DS without hurling it into the sky, that would be one

Yet here you are trying to argue that I am discussing the SYSTEM...

[Daeglan 5,950]

3 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

amused

I answered a question "why would you do that?" and later pointed that I was ALSO of the opinion that it would be silly and rule breaking

Yet here you are trying to argue that I am discussing the SYSTEM...

except your premise is not really doable so not a useful suggestion.

[emsquared 779]

20 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

Yet here you are trying to argue that I am discussing the SYSTEM...

You engaged in our discussion. You are discussing what we are discussing. That includes the system.

Particularly in an RPG system where the mechanics derive from the narrative, like this one.

Feel free to form a full thought on the page next time, so we can avoid this silliness, hm?

[MB -Fr- 172]

1 minute ago, emsquared said:

You engaged in our discussion. You are discussing what we are discussing. That includes the system.

Particularly in an RPG system where the mechanics derive from the narrative, like this one.

Feel free to form a full thought on the page next time, so we can avoid this silliness, hm?

 

1 hour ago, MB -Fr- said:

wasn't saying it didn't need silly amounts of xp and rule breaking, you were asking for a motivation about moving the DS without hurling it into the sky, that would be one

that specific enough?

maybe try to read what people post instead of playing the high and mighty guardian of the thread

[emsquared 779]

2 minutes ago, MB -Fr- said:

that specific enough?

Ah, you mean that thing you posted after I had already started to reply to your first thought?

You haven't formed a full thought, when the thoughts are literally separated in space and time.

That's two different thoughts.

Sorry. Not my job to know your thoughts before you've posted them. It's your job to present them as you want them understood.

So, again, if you don't want ppl to misinterpret your thoughts, I would recommend forming a full thought, the first time, next time.

Otherwise it's just you being a disingenuous jerk, to pretend like my reception of your direct support for a premise to be an implicit agreement with that premise is the misstep.

[emsquared 779]

Also just gonna point out that these are all Piloted vehicles at their core.

So you're making an opposed check against the Pilot (or in truth, probably multiple pilots), to Move either a Death Star or a Destroyer.

You can't Hurl them, as the Difficulty exceeds what's mechanically possibile. So you're just moving them - to point them away, or to be within reach if gravity so they fall, whatever. And if you're just moving them, you can be resisted by a Rival or Nemesis. And I hear those Pilots are pretty good at what they do... y'know... piloting multi-gagillion-cred pieces of machinery.

And so if you don't stat them as an Adversary, and well enough to challenge your Force User's ability, as GM that's on you.

'nother check and balance.

'nother reason this is all Chicken Little, crying out, "The Death Star is falling."

It's not.

Edited February 18 by emsquared

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

Yeah, the Move power doesn't even work at Planetary scale. So if you're trying to Move the Death Star or a star destroyer, if you happen to generate enough Force pips to affect them and succeed against the Opposed Check, all you're doing is moving them within the "close" range band in space. Which is peanuts when you think about their sizes compared to the personal-scale range bands. 

You would need multiple successful checks (likely requiring the Destiny Point expenditure each time for attempting an "Impossible" task), performed as multiple actions over multiple combat rounds, to move a star destroyer anywhere of consequence. Throw into the mix the fact that the GM is the one who defines the length of combat rounds and the actual sizes of any given range band, and you have a good recipe for non-brokenness. 

That being said, there are some creative ways you could use this—perhaps if you were somehow close enough to the Death Star, you could Move it just enough to avert the superlaser for a round, or you could cause two star destroyers that are within close range of each other (for whatever reason) to collide with each other. But these are edge cases, extremely rare and highly situational, and would provide some cool opportunities for compelling, cinematic moments.

I'm just not quite sure what all the fuss is about.

[Stan Fresh 2,465]

As usual, the answer is spinning. Just rotate the DS away from the planet.

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

2 hours ago, Stan Fresh said:

As usual, the answer is spinning. Just rotate the DS away from the planet.

OR...

 

...hear me out...

 

...move the planet away from the Death Star 🤓

[Daeglan 5,950]

30 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

OR...

 

...hear me out...

 

...move the planet away from the Death Star 🤓

how far can you move if you are always with in short range of your target because you are standing on it...

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

8 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

how far can you move if you are always with in short range of your target because you are standing on it...

Loophole! No range upgrades needed! Just keep moving it within short range of yourself ☺️

[Daeglan 5,950]

8 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Loophole! No range upgrades needed! Just keep moving it within short range of yourself ☺️

If you have the Hurl upgrade how fast can you get the planet to move it move it?

[awayputurwpn 7,720]

14 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

If you have the Hurl upgrade how fast can you get the planet to move it move it?

Physically physically physically?

[Daeglan 5,950]

18 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Physically physically physically?

yes...and how much damage would it do? lol