Sato's Cattle Bruiser

[Undeadguy 5,749]

Need some input on my first pass at a Sato build with  Liberty. Besides the 3 flotillas, which I don't like, something feels off about this list. I was expecting to fit another threat in here but with the squads and Pelta, I as left with too few points to do anything with.

 

The goal of the list is prett obvious. Pass around tokens with Comms Net to the Pelta or Liberty so trigger Nav Teams or Entrapment Formtation. Ahsoka gives me the freedom to change a left over token from Raymus into a Nav (most likely to be picked) to power Nav Teams. H9 is great at killing flotillas and locking down brace. XI7 makes sure I push damage through on everything. With Sato, I'd likely go 2 blacks against ships with Redirect, and blue/black against ships with Evade. Leading Shots is just a solid card and gives another reroll to my black dice. The GR-75 Combat Retrofit is something new I have never done, but they are the squad pushers and can throw a black die just for fun. Tycho and Shara are pretty hard to deal with and pair well with Sato. 4 A-Wings are meh but I don't want less than 6 squads because I know how fagile they can be.

 

I'd want to put Salvation in, but I'm worried about dropping to 3 activations.

 

Sato's Cattle Bruiser
Author: Undeadguy

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 393/400

Commander: Commander Sato

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Solar Corona

MC80 Battle Cruiser (103 points)
-  Raymus Antilles  ( 7  points)
-  Ordnance Experts  ( 4  points)
-  Nav Team  ( 4  points)
-  H9 Turbolasers  ( 8  points)
-  X17 Turbolasers  ( 6  points)
-  Leading Shots  ( 4  points)
= 136 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Modified Pelta-class Assault Ship (56 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points)
-  Ahsoka Tano  ( 2  points)
-  Entrapment Formation!  ( 5  points)
= 95 total ship cost

GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)
= 28 total ship cost

GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)
= 28 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
-  Bright Hope  ( 2  points)
-  Toryn Farr  ( 7  points)
-  Comms Net  ( 2  points)
= 29 total ship cost

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)

[Maturin 1,583]

You and I must think alike, because I made a very similar list a few days ago.

The major difference is that I had Salvation with Raymus in place of the Pelta. I worry the Pelta is too slow to keep up with the rest of the fleet, and I see raw damage output with Salvation as better than anything the fleet upgrades could offer. Salvation really wants Raymus as CF gives it a way to reroll blank dice, while the Liberty has leading shots to help out. You can move Ahsoka to the Liberty.

I had Bright hope set up as Sato's lifeboat, with Major Derlin along for the ride. The two Combat retrofits I kept naked except for one Quantum Storm, as I expect their lifespan to be relatively short (with all the h9s in lists today). But while they're alive I expect them to be CF'ing, and throwing two black dice each with Sato-nanigans. Using a CF token for rerolls of course.

I had one or two less a-wings and added HWKs for later game Sato effect - having Intel for yourself keeps them able to move to where they need to, even on their own in the squadron phase.

I would see the fleet flying at speed three most of the game, trying to have the combat retrofits hitting the same time as Liberty and Salvation come into range. That way the opponent may choose to shoot at the bigger ships, giving he transports another turn to throw two black dice.

I will be testing this.

[Mad Cat 2,250]

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation. I don't think you will get that much use from Sato. It seems a little like an Ackbar list with an MC80A and lots of flotillas.

 

If you drop Sato and bought Spinal armament and Mon Karren, your damage output would be similar but then you can get benefits from a new admiral like Dodonna, Rieekan and save a few points.

[Maturin 1,583]

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

I think I want to get an MC30 or Salvation in here. I'm not too worried about Intel because Tycho can fly around. I might drop the Pelta because it isn't doing anything except providing speed buffs.

[Nostromoid 879]

 

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

 

 

In fairness, it's pretty easy to forget that Combat Retrofits exists... except that this list finally makes them look great.

[Sybreed 1,110]

 

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

 

 

hm, you can sato the first dice, then sato the dice you add with CF?

[Drasnighta 26,833]

 

 

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

 

 

hm, you can sato the first dice, then sato the dice you add with CF?

 

 

No.  This would be one of those "cans of worms" things I mentioned in the Dual Turbolaser Rules Topic...   

You have to decide on how many Dice you are Satoing (up to 2)...  And Do them...

THEN you can add a die based on ConFire principals.

 

You don't get to go back to Sato at that point - as he has been resolved once already.

[Sybreed 1,110]

 

 

 

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

 

 

hm, you can sato the first dice, then sato the dice you add with CF?

 

 

No.  This would be one of those "cans of worms" things I mentioned in the Dual Turbolaser Rules Topic...   

You have to decide on how many Dice you are Satoing (up to 2)...  And Do them...

THEN you can add a die based on ConFire principals.

 

You don't get to go back to Sato at that point - as he has been resolved once already.

 

 

ah, that's what I thought. These combat transports can't fire 2 blacks then

Edited December 9, 2016 by Sybreed

[Maturin 1,583]

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

hm, you can sato the first dice, then sato the dice you add with CF?

No. This would be one of those "cans of worms" things I mentioned in the Dual Turbolaser Rules Topic...

You have to decide on how many Dice you are Satoing (up to 2)... And Do them...

THEN you can add a die based on ConFire principals.

You don't get to go back to Sato at that point - as he has been resolved once already.

ah, that's what I thought. These combat transports can't fire 2 blacks then

Sure you can. You Sato the blue into a black. Roll your die. Then you ConFire....and add another black since you have a black in your attack pool already.

Edit: which is not to say that Dras is incorrect. You can't Sato the second die. But what I'm describing falls under "add a die based on ConFire principals".

Edited December 9, 2016 by Maturin

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

Yup, works just like CF on Paragon, Defiance, etc.

[Sybreed 1,110]

ohhh I forgot that little wording "already in your pool".

 

Thx!

[Parkdaddy 626]

If you're planning on the CF for your Combat flotillas, then drop the boosted comms. You want to save squadron commands for the big hitters to ensure you get Satos effect, and you don't want to fling all of your fighters into the fray at once. They're fragile.

The Liberty title, i think would find its niche in this list. I also think it would be worth it to get APTs on the Pelta. That's a potential faceup at long range... replacing both boosted comms with these is a 1-for-1 on points.

The list is very fragile, with not a lot of hull. The combat refits together are a 48-point expenditure to get a maximum of 4 black dice on target. With scatters, 6 combined hull. Not a bad take, and your opponent will be highly tempted to take them out, either through shots or ramming.

The pelta is also highly vulnerable and not very defense-capable. I think that Derlin on Bright Hope would be an interesting flagship. That ship easily wants to hang in the background, can go last, and stay out of the fight. It literally takes a 6 damage hit to get 1-shot, baring certain crits. And with 8 deployments, you can place it pretty safely most of the time. Or you could forgo derlin and just make it your flagship (Toryn is still a solid choice, pending some changes). But the pelta as is costs as much as a full clonisher. And it's not as good.

Toryn-gets used in AS attacks (Flotilla and Awings only), some Liberty shots, and nothing else. And the Liberty has leading shots, which reduces the blues from 3 to 2. And H9 can already turn any of those blues to an accuracy without having to reroll. Seeing as how you don't already have a crit effect for the Liberty, I think the ICBs would do well here, and you can fish for a blue crit with Toryn. But if you want to keep LS (recommended with Sato), then I'd dump Toryn. There has to be a better expenditure of 7 points in this list.

Also, I'd consider shield to max and projection experts on the pelta. The main problem with the Liberty is how quickly it dies. Just a thought. Though the entrapment formation combined with Nav teams on the Liberty seems like it would help a lot with arc dodging.

[Norell 1,198]

 

 

 

 

 

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

hm, you can sato the first dice, then sato the dice you add with CF?

No. This would be one of those "cans of worms" things I mentioned in the Dual Turbolaser Rules Topic...

You have to decide on how many Dice you are Satoing (up to 2)... And Do them...

THEN you can add a die based on ConFire principals.

You don't get to go back to Sato at that point - as he has been resolved once already.

ah, that's what I thought. These combat transports can't fire 2 blacks then

Sure you can. You Sato the blue into a black. Roll your die. Then you ConFire....and add another black since you have a black in your attack pool already.

Edit: which is not to say that Dras is incorrect. You can't Sato the second die. But what I'm describing falls under "add a die based on ConFire principals".

 

 

As I read the rules you can add a second black dice, BUT! while you may roll the first black dice from medium range, as it was replaced by Sato, you can roll your second black dice only form close range as it wasn't replaced by Sato.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Norell

[Maturin 1,583]

 

 

 

As I read the rules you can add a second black dice, BUT! while you may roll the first black dice from medium range, as it was replaced by Sato, you can roll your second black dice only form close range as it wasn't replaced by Sato.

 

 

(Doing my best Drasnighta impersonation):

Checking in the rules reference guide, under Attack, you roll your attack dice in step 2, which is where it references collecting dice of the appropriate range.

However, modifying dice (which is what Concentrate Fire is doing) occurs in step 3, and thus the restriction on range/colors no longer applies.

 

If you look in the Rules forum it's been well established that this is the sequence of events even waaaay back in wave 1, when the Paragon title came on the scene, and also offers a way to get an black dice at red ranges using Concentrate Fire.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Maturin

[Drasnighta 26,833]

 

 

 

 

 

 

You only have 2 ships that can shoot at other ships and one of those will be plotting Nav commands a lot to use the Entrapment Formation.

You missed the part where he's using Combat Retrofits, which can indeed shoot at other ships. Two blacks, even, with Sato and CF.

hm, you can sato the first dice, then sato the dice you add with CF?

No. This would be one of those "cans of worms" things I mentioned in the Dual Turbolaser Rules Topic...

You have to decide on how many Dice you are Satoing (up to 2)... And Do them...

THEN you can add a die based on ConFire principals.

You don't get to go back to Sato at that point - as he has been resolved once already.

ah, that's what I thought. These combat transports can't fire 2 blacks then

Sure you can. You Sato the blue into a black. Roll your die. Then you ConFire....and add another black since you have a black in your attack pool already.

Edit: which is not to say that Dras is incorrect. You can't Sato the second die. But what I'm describing falls under "add a die based on ConFire principals".

 

 

As I read the rules you can add a second black dice, BUT! while you may roll the first black dice from medium range, as it was replaced by Sato, you can roll your second black dice only form close range as it wasn't replaced by Sato.

 

 

 

Its also in the FAQ:

Attacks

 

Q: When a ship resolves an ability that allows it to add dice to the attack pool, can it add those dice if their color is not normally appropriate for the range of the attack?

 

A: Yes. The range restriction on dice color applies only when dice are gathered during the “Roll Attack Dice” step of an attack.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

After thinking about this for a while, I actually think Sato is better for MSU lists, and this list is actually pretty weak. H9s will out right kill the flotillas, and their main purpose was blue AA to free my squads up, not to be firing on enemy ships. Activated squads are more powerful than getting 2 blacks since A-wings have blacks too.

 

I don't like Major Derlin. I think he is a weak upgrade for 7 points, and pairing him with BH is overkill.

 

Liberty title is really good with Raymus, but the flotillas were kitted to be moving the squad anyway, with Toryn Farr in the middle helping the A-wings.

 

I'm not sold on the Pelta. It seems like a huge point sink to keep it running effectively.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

Here is a new list I came up with.

 

Points: 396/400

 

Commander: Commander Sato

 

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Sensor Net

 

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points)
-  Paragon  ( 5  points)
-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points)
-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)
-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points)
= 131 total ship cost

 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
= 44 total ship cost

 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
= 44 total ship cost

 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
= 44 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)
= 28 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)
-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)
= 28 total ship cost

 

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)
4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)

 

So same concept with the GR-75. Firing blue AA to free the squads up. Might swap out the A-Wings with Z-95s after they get spoiled so get some more squads in here and overwhelm my opponent. The Sato90s are really annoying because they get to throw blacks at long range. Have fun with hit/crits. It may not be as reliable as TRC90s, but I get to actually use the double Evades. CF brings it up to 4 blacks a turn, and 3 Sato90s can tack on damage pretty quick. The AF is there to double arc and throw 5 blacks a turn and spam squad commands so I can shred enemy squads.

 

I really really like this list a lot more. It has the annoying-ness of TRC90s, with a heavy hitter and great antisquad capabilities. 6 activations and 9 deployments is also great.

[MandalorianMoose 1,862]

Here is a new list I came up with.

 

Points: 396/400

 

Commander: Commander Sato

 

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Fire Lanes

Navigation Objective: Sensor Net

 

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)

-  Commander Sato  ( 32  points)

-  Paragon  ( 5  points)

-  Flight Controllers  ( 6  points)

-  Electronic Countermeasures  ( 7  points)

-  Spinal Armament  ( 9  points)

= 131 total ship cost

 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

= 44 total ship cost

 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

= 44 total ship cost

 

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)

= 44 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)

-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)

= 28 total ship cost

 

GR-75 Combat Retrofits (24 points)

-  Boosted Comms  ( 4  points)

= 28 total ship cost

 

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)

1 Shara Bey ( 17 points)

4 A-Wing Squadrons ( 44 points)

 

So same concept with the GR-75. Firing blue AA to free the squads up. Might swap out the A-Wings with Z-95s after they get spoiled so get some more squads in here and overwhelm my opponent. The Sato90s are really annoying because they get to throw blacks at long range. Have fun with hit/crits. It may not be as reliable as TRC90s, but I get to actually use the double Evades. CF brings it up to 4 blacks a turn, and 3 Sato90s can tack on damage pretty quick. The AF is there to double arc and throw 5 blacks a turn and spam squad commands so I can shred enemy squads.

 

I really really like this list a lot more. It has the annoying-ness of TRC90s, with a heavy hitter and great antisquad capabilities. 6 activations and 9 deployments is also great.

This list looks like a ton of fun to fly, I really dig it. My only suggestion would be to swap flight controllers for ordinance experts. Since the Paragon is depending on double arcing I think you will find yourself throwing more nav commands than squadrons, and ordinance experts will let you re-roll all of those tasty sato black dice, which you get even more of with the title.

[Undeadguy 5,749]

I played this list last night and I totally agree with FC and OE. FC was nice with Tycho and Shara, but on my 3 big attacks, I dealt a measly 8 damage all together. And I upgraded to the AF-A to get the blue die out the front. I expect with Jerry making hard turns the AF will not be able to stay at long range and double arc, so may as well get the extra value.

[Parkdaddy 626]

I also suspect that Targetting Beacons may be a nice objective for this list. Paragon may like advanced gunnery, but all those unupgraded corvettes... free ordnance experts.

[Dupy 139]

I like dodonna's pride on one of the sato90's. Sato the reds to blues and fish for crit effects.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Dupy

[Ardaedhel 10,844]

I like dodonna's pride on one I'd the sato90's. Sato the reds to blues and fish for crit effects.

This is the kind of fun innovation that makes me excited for Sato. Love it!

[Undeadguy 5,749]

 

I like dodonna's pride on one I'd the sato90's. Sato the reds to blues and fish for crit effects.

This is the kind of fun innovation that makes me excited for Sato. Love it!

 

Yea that's a good point. Haven't thought about doing that. 

 

Dropping crits at long range with Targeting Beacons and Toryn for rerolls!