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Guest BladeWing24

X-wing B-wing fix S-foils

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Guest BladeWing24

Title card S-foils similar to pivot wing

Attack position at the start of the combat phase take a free focus action.

Closed S-foils gain one additional agility dice you cannot make attacks

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^ Tell us how you really feel...

A lot of this game's inspiration - and even ships - have come directly from the video games, in which opening and closing the S-foils to gain speed at a sacrifice of firing was not only something you could do while in combat, it was also one of the best ways of either bugging out of a bad situation, or re-positioning for another run on a target.

 

 

The S-foils idea has been going around since Wave 1. When the first Dual card dropped, the topic heated up again, as there was now a card mechanic that suited it. I have no doubt that we'll see something along those lines for the X-wing in the future - although what form it'll take is anyone's guess, as simply adding a green or red die for position is inherently badly balanced - but it might be tougher on the B-wing. I think the B-wing is more deserving of an upgrade along the lines of TIE /D, or something that promotes it's outrageous knife-fighting dial. 

 

If I had to do an S-foil card for the X-wing, it'd probably be something along the lines of Closed = Weapons disabled, you must do a free boost maneuver with the speed 2 template after moving. Action to flip; Open = you may flip this card after an opportunity to attack. 

The X-wing's firepower is already on show in it's stat line. An ability to reposition at the sacrifice of firing is already a Rebel trait in the K-wing, and works well. Using an action to flip back to open prevents people from using a 4k with the 2 boost to essentially do a 180, and the mandatory boost ensures it must be well planned to prevent being blocked, while still providing separation. 

 

For a B-wing, I'd probably be more inclined to say something like Closed = You may only perform secondary weapon attacks. Speed 3 maneuvers are white. Action to flip; Open = After firing, you may attack a second target in R1, or perform a free barrel roll. Action to flip.

The idea here is to promote the B-wing throwing in some approach shots, before getting into it's primary game role as a knife fighter. Get into R1 of a group quickly, and mix it up. Let them get dirty. It also promotes taking secondary weapons, so those opportunities for approach shots aren't wasted.

 

 

 

But, again, I don't see anything like this happening in the near future. Even in the next year.

Edited by NakedDex

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^ Tell us how you really feel...

A lot of this game's inspiration - and even ships - have come directly from the video games, in which opening and closing the S-foils to gain speed at a sacrifice of firing was not only something you could do while in combat, it was also one of the best ways of either bugging out of a bad situation, or re-positioning for another run on a target.

 

 

The S-foils idea has been going around since Wave 1. When the first Dual card dropped, the topic heated up again, as there was now a card mechanic that suited it. I have no doubt that we'll see something along those lines for the X-wing in the future - although what form it'll take is anyone's guess, as simply adding a green or red die for position is inherently badly balanced - but it might be tougher on the B-wing. I think the B-wing is more deserving of an upgrade along the lines of TIE /D, or something that promotes it's outrageous knife-fighting dial. 

 

If I had to do an S-foil card for the X-wing, it'd probably be something along the lines of Closed = Weapons disabled, you must do a free boost maneuver with the speed 2 template after moving. Action to flip; Open = you may flip this card after an opportunity to attack. 

The X-wing's firepower is already on show in it's stat line. An ability to reposition at the sacrifice of firing is already a Rebel trait in the K-wing, and works well. Using an action to flip back to open prevents people from using a 4k with the 2 boost to essentially do a 180, and the mandatory boost ensures it must be well planned to prevent being blocked, while still providing separation. 

 

For a B-wing, I'd probably be more inclined to say something like Closed = You may only perform secondary weapon attacks. Speed 3 maneuvers are white. Action to flip; Open = After firing, you may attack a second target in R1, or perform a free barrel roll. Action to flip.

The idea here is to promote the B-wing throwing in some approach shots, before getting into it's primary game role as a knife fighter. Get into R1 of a group quickly, and mix it up. Let them get dirty. It also promotes taking secondary weapons, so those opportunities for approach shots aren't wasted.

Plus we do have cinematic footage of poe closing his s-foils at starkiller base so he could get to where he needed to, not something he could have done with them open

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^ Tell us how you really feel...

A lot of this game's inspiration - and even ships - have come directly from the video games, in which opening and closing the S-foils to gain speed at a sacrifice of firing was not only something you could do while in combat, it was also one of the best ways of either bugging out of a bad situation, or re-positioning for another run on a target.

 

 

The S-foils idea has been going around since Wave 1. When the first Dual card dropped, the topic heated up again, as there was now a card mechanic that suited it. I have no doubt that we'll see something along those lines for the X-wing in the future - although what form it'll take is anyone's guess, as simply adding a green or red die for position is inherently badly balanced - but it might be tougher on the B-wing. I think the B-wing is more deserving of an upgrade along the lines of TIE /D, or something that promotes it's outrageous knife-fighting dial. 

 

If I had to do an S-foil card for the X-wing, it'd probably be something along the lines of Closed = Weapons disabled, you must do a free boost maneuver with the speed 2 template after moving. Action to flip; Open = you may flip this card after an opportunity to attack. 

The X-wing's firepower is already on show in it's stat line. An ability to reposition at the sacrifice of firing is already a Rebel trait in the K-wing, and works well. Using an action to flip back to open prevents people from using a 4k with the 2 boost to essentially do a 180, and the mandatory boost ensures it must be well planned to prevent being blocked, while still providing separation. 

 

For a B-wing, I'd probably be more inclined to say something like Closed = You may only perform secondary weapon attacks. Speed 3 maneuvers are white. Action to flip; Open = After firing, you may attack a second target in R1, or perform a free barrel roll. Action to flip.

The idea here is to promote the B-wing throwing in some approach shots, before getting into it's primary game role as a knife fighter. Get into R1 of a group quickly, and mix it up. Let them get dirty. It also promotes taking secondary weapons, so those opportunities for approach shots aren't wasted.

Plus we do have cinematic footage of poe closing his s-foils at starkiller base so he could get to where he needed to, not something he could have done with them open

 

And a cinematic footage of X-wings not firing their weapons, hurrying is the fastest speed possible, into a Death Star trench... With S-foils opened.

Because you know, combat position.

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^ Tell us how you really feel...

A lot of this game's inspiration - and even ships - have come directly from the video games, in which opening and closing the S-foils to gain speed at a sacrifice of firing was not only something you could do while in combat, it was also one of the best ways of either bugging out of a bad situation, or re-positioning for another run on a target.

 

You mean in bad arcade video games? Never saw that in any good SW piloting simulation :D But you get Energy Management, which is way cooler.

Edited by Giledhil

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What exactly would be the game mechanic for Poe's maneuver though?

I have to agree, flappy S-Foils is silly. It's very clearly "Lock S-Foils in 'Attack' position" meaning the alternate position is not designed for combat. In fact, the most likely use for closed S-Foils is for landing and decke storage, as evidence by the B-Wing. Same reason naval helicopters have collapsible rotors and naval fighters have wings that fold up.

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X-wing already got a modification : Integrated Astro.
Since "s-foils" or "energy management" isn't a proper Title (Yeah, I know, U-wing... but anyway, not a Title), what about Rogue Squadron? After all, we got a lot of pilots from the books, and Armada players even have a Rogue Squadron card now !

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Cinematically we have two cases of closed s-foils in combat scenarios. Wedge and Poe. Both times it was to fit through a narrow point that otherwise would have been dramatic endings had they not done so. Both times they immediately reopened as they were NOT going to go flying around with them closed. Yes I freeze framed Poe, he had his wings open inside the thermal regulating plot device and immediately closed them to fit back through the small hole. What I take from this is we've got two of the best pilots in the galaxy doing things that would be idiotic suggestions to most of the galaxy and even then these aces chose not to continue to run wings closed for longer than absolutely necessary.

S-foils have never been linked to speed or agility benefits when closed in movies, cartoons, books, manuals, simulators, arcade style games but for ONE exception. I tend to think that consistency would imply that this is a false conclusion. I do not fault people in looking for their Xwing fix, I love classic T65s and want them on the table too. I think we need to look elsewhere.

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What exactly would be the game mechanic for Poe's maneuver though?

 

Surely as simple as was already posted - action would be to open/close and then pick from a slew of choices - free boost, when closed you lose an attack dice and gain an agility dice when open.  Plenty of options :)

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That's not replicating Poe's use in the movie though. That's just listing things, lol.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question or the situation but Poe in the trench on Starkiller closed his wings and was seemingly more agile.  I addressed two different ways that could be addressed via game mechanics.

Edited by Bojanglez

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That's not replicating Poe's use in the movie though. That's just listing things, lol.

 

If you don't accept those as plausible things, and you want "replication"...  You won't get it...   Because you do not have a Starkiller Base Trench Run mission in X-Wing.

 

 

Sort that out first, and you'll have your answer.

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If you want to do something dealing with the wings I figure it should have to do with how the fire-link system is working.  For an X-Wing or B-Wing it isn't open or closed as closed is just foolish in combat but rather have something to deal with attacking due to the widely spaced weapons.

 

In the video game my default was twin linked for the X-Wing as it gave decent power, fire rate, and coverage.  Going to singles would let you keep shooting so you may have been more likely to hit but it wouldn't have been a "good" hit.  Firing all at once could produce a nice big splat that one-shot TIE Fighters but it was a bit harder to get that shot off and it didn't happen as quickly.  Get me a dual card that would allow me to switchup the fire-link before you give me some BS about going into landing position.

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That's not replicating Poe's use in the movie though. That's just listing things, lol.

 

If you don't accept those as plausible things, and you want "replication"...  You won't get it...   Because you do not have a Starkiller Base Trench Run mission in X-Wing.

 

 

Sort that out first, and you'll have your answer.

 

He specifically closed the S-Foils to reduce the X-Wing's profile to fit in a tighter space, unless I'm misremembering the scene.

How does that apply to X-Wing? That's the question at hand.

I don't need to sort anything out because I don't have any interest in an S-Foil card in the game. I'm just saying that using it as an example isn't really very valuable since the purpose in the movie isn't applicable to the tabletop game in any meaningful way.

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That's not replicating Poe's use in the movie though. That's just listing things, lol.

 

If you don't accept those as plausible things, and you want "replication"...  You won't get it...   Because you do not have a Starkiller Base Trench Run mission in X-Wing.

 

 

Sort that out first, and you'll have your answer.

 

He specifically closed the S-Foils to reduce the X-Wing's profile to fit in a tighter space, unless I'm misremembering the scene.

How does that apply to X-Wing? That's the question at hand.

I don't need to sort anything out because I don't have any interest in an S-Foil card in the game. I'm just saying that using it as an example isn't really very valuable since the purpose in the movie isn't applicable to the tabletop game in any meaningful way.

 

 

 

 

That's not replicating Poe's use in the movie though. That's just listing things, lol.

 

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your question or the situation but Poe in the trench on Starkiller closed his wings and was seemingly more agile.  I addressed two different ways that could be addressed via game mechanics.

 

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I came up with this... probably isn't fluffy/cinimatic but I tried :P

Red Squadron X-Wing:

1. Charge up Power: If you are unattacked or if you did not attack anyone this Firing Phase, you may perform a free boost or barrel roll action the next activation phase after you have executed your manuever and normal action.

2. Reinforced Frontal Deflectors: If your attacker is in your primary firing arc, you may change one (hit) to a (idk focus or blank)

Squad point cost: -1

X-Wing only. T-70 X-Wings may not equip this card.

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Two cases I think where closing s-foils increases speed are the 3 Rogue Squadron games and one of the Poe Dameron comics they have running right now.

In the 2nd case they show the T-70s can fire still but they have a fraction of their power, I think either 2/3 or 1/3.

Edited by KiraYamatoSF

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I still like the idea of Rogue Squadron, Wraith Squadron titles that are 0pt but rely on having multiple ships with the title.

IE

You may spend a TL off another ship with the Rogue Squadron title.

If another member of Wraith Squadron is within Range 1-2 ignore the first stress you gain this turn.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

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Guest BladeWing24

S foils closed reduces the cross section of the fighter making it harder to hit as well fit between tight areas like Poe. Which is why I think something like this is coming down the pipe. It isn't truly practical to close them but it happened and it does give an untrusting mechanic ie if I know I won't have a shot why not close them and make harder to hit me.

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S foils closed reduces the cross section of the fighter making it harder to hit as well fit between tight areas like Poe. Which is why I think something like this is coming down the pipe. It isn't truly practical to close them but it happened and it does give an untrusting mechanic ie if I know I won't have a shot why not close them and make harder to hit me.

 

Which cross section would that be?  I guess the B-Wing w/ folded "wings" turns it's + into more of a - which helps in one orientation (directly above or below) but the X-Wing's doesn't change much as open or closed the side profile doesn't change all that much and the area from front-back and top-bottom doesn't change one bit.

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S foils closed reduces the cross section of the fighter making it harder to hit as well fit between tight areas like Poe. Which is why I think something like this is coming down the pipe. It isn't truly practical to close them but it happened and it does give an untrusting mechanic ie if I know I won't have a shot why not close them and make harder to hit me.

 

Which cross section would that be?  I guess the B-Wing w/ folded "wings" turns it's + into more of a - which helps in one orientation (directly above or below) but the X-Wing's doesn't change much as open or closed the side profile doesn't change all that much and the area from front-back and top-bottom doesn't change one bit.

 

 

 

The most Preferred Engagement Profile:

From Behind.

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Not really, the wings don't disappear, the area is exactly the same.

If a stray bolt went into the "corner" of the craft's silhouette, yeah, it would hit it with the S-foils open and would miss with them closed.

But if said bolt went between the wings, it would miss with S-foils open and hit with them closed.

 

The enemies will be aiming at the center of mass, so I'd argue that hitting the craft with open S-foils should be harder, because hitting the wing in attack position would require the shot to be off on both axes (too high/low AND too much to the left/right), and just one in landing mode (too much to the left/right).

Edited by eMeM

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