Khyros

Can Kanan/Biggs hold up in this meta?

68 posts in this topic

So I’m from South East Michigan, and already had standing plans for Sunday December 4th, so when Flat Land Games announced they were hosting another regional, I got excited.  But when they said it was going to be the weekend of Dec 3/4, with the elimination rounds occurring on Sunday, I was devastated.  With the inability to fly in the regional this year, and Mr. Nice Guy Games not being selected to host it for a 3rd year, I was wondering if I was even going to get to play in a regional this year.  But about 2 weeks ago, the store announced that due to the lack of registrations, the event was going to be capped at 130 people, and restricted to a 1 day event.  This was great news, as it meant that I could squeeze in my participation (and I do mean squeeze) for a regional!  The bad news was that I had no freakin’ clue what I wanted to run.  I’ve really only played a handful of casual games since Gencon this year, so 3 months had pasted, along with the launch of Wave 9, HoTR, and the popularity of /x7 Defenders (though they were starting to appear during Gencon).   At least I knew I wanted to play Rebels, as I always stick to Rebels.

 

But from there, I was lost.  I’ve always been a fan of Miranda, Poe, Kanan, Tycho, and Corran, and there are new toys for Poe and Kanan, with Miranda still being viable as well.  But I was also eager to try out Norra and Rey, so I was left with 5 pilots that I wanted to experiment with for the 2 weeks leading up to the regional.  I spent about a week ruling Poe and Norra out, and I was thinking that I was going to step away from Kanan since I ran Kanan/Miranda last regional season and Kanan/Biggs during Gencon.  With about a week to go until the regional, I thought I had decided on Rey/Miranda.  I had Expert Handling on Rey (after all, they’re both PS8 already, why screw that up?), and was having a bunch of fun playing the list, but it just seemed to lack that killer edge.  I found myself over using the barrel roll in order to activate Rey’s ability, but then I would consistently roll more focuses than blanks/hits, and wouldn’t have a way to modify them.  So with less than a week to go, I decided to abandon it (for the moment at least).  And I found myself without enough time to work on coming up with a new list, refining it, and then practicing with it, so I decided to settle back on a refinement of my Gencon Kanan/Biggs list.

 

My List

Kanan w/ Twin Laser Turret, Fire Control System, Recon Specialist, Rey, Engine Upgrade, Ghost

Biggs w/ R3-A2, Integrated Astromech

Zeb w/ Chopper, Phantom

 

There have been discussions before about how to run Kanan/Biggs, and how to properly outfit him.  Typically they revolve around the choice between TLT vs. ABT, and which 2 crew cards to place on him.  I am of the opinion that at the top tier competition, ABT is next to useless on anyone that you want to use it against.  I do not have a large enough sample size to confirm that, but it seems that every ship you want to ABT has at least one repositioning action, so you truly have to have them in a really bad spot in order for ABT to work.  Granted, it only needs to work once per round.  Regardless, I have a bunch of experience with TLT on Kanan and am very comfortable with how it flies.  As for the choice of crew, I used to have Recon/Tactician during Gencon, and Kanan can fly through focus tokens like you wouldn’t believe (especially with 4 TLT shots), so Recon Spec is an auto include in my opinion.  Rey was the new “shiny” from HoTR that I wanted to use.  But it goes beyond just being a new card, she allows you to build up a bank of focus tokens before combat starts, giving you 3 for the first 1-3 rounds of shooting, which means that you can minimize the incoming fire from pretty much every attack and then still have a focus left over for offense.  Then in the end game, there is typically a lull where you’re regrouping, where you can store a few more tokens on her, so when you do finally re-engage, you can spend on to reduce the attack to 2, and use your action on evade, meaning that you will take at most 1 damage.  And on a 16 health ship, it means you get plenty of rounds of 4 TLT shots to whittle down the remaining opponent before they finally force you to then deploy the shuttle.  Finally, the inclusion of Engine Upgrade may seem counter intuitive for a ship being protected by Biggs.  But Biggs is really only there for the first 2-3 rounds of shooting, after that, Kanan is on his own and can make great use of the engine upgrade to boost into position.  I lost my Gencon round 8 matchup because I could not shake my opponent from the R1 blind spot on the side without EU.  And believe it or not, but EU synergizes with Rey as well since it allows you to still take a F token when you boost.  The final piece of obscurity you might notice is that Biggs is rolling with R3-A2 instead of R4-D6.  I like to think of Biggs w/ Droid as a 26 point ship – you’d be silly to not spend a point for one of the droids.  And R4-D6 resulted in 0 benefit (and only 1 activation) during all of Gencon, so for a 1 point upgrade, I gain the ability to stress my opponent, I consider that a bargain.  And Zeb is as cheap as possible, during Gencon I only deployed him 3 times, two games were already lost, and 1 game I just needed a single point of damage.  My results this past weekend were about the same, so I stick by the fact that he’s an 18 point upgrade to Kanan.  With all of that said, this list bleeds MoV, I knew my target was 5-1 in order to make the cut going into the weekend, and that was continuously confirmed throughout the day as I was consistently in the bottom 3 places for my # of wins.

 

Note – anytime there’s a * next to the upgrade, that means that I’m not 100% sure that’s what it was, I could be wrong on it, but in general it didn’t play into the matchup.

 

Round 1

Dengar w/ Adaptability, R5-P8, Punishing One, K4 Security Droid*, Black Market Slicer Tools*

Fenn Rau w/ Adaptability, Concord Dawn Protector, Auto Thrusters

Binayre w/ Homing Missile, Guidance Chips

 

So I had done the math and figured with 6 rounds at 90 minutes each (75min rounds + 15min between), and a 9am start, that if I didn’t make the elimination rounds, I would be done by 6pm, meaning that my 5 hour drive that I had to do after the regional would put me at my destination by 11pm.  Except then they announced 90min rounds in order to give you time to see your pairings and setup (I guess this is what Worlds did?), and we started 30 minutes late.  So I was in a pretty depressed mood to start the day, not looking forward to my 1am arrival.  And then I was paired up against this seemingly nightmare of a list, and it just got worse from there.  One thing you have to understand about Kanan’s ability – the less attack dice the opponent starts with, the better his ability is.  So seeing Fenn who rolls 5 at R1, and Dengar who likes to make multiple shots, I wasn’t feeling too good about this encounter. 

 

Now, before we get into specifics, I setup Kanan/Biggs the same way every game.  Kanan’s inside edge is at R2 from the board (so he can go straight and clear every rock), which Biggs is facing Kanan, 1 base away from him, with Biggs’ side flush with the rear of Kanan.  This allows for 4 opening moves depending on the board placement.  Kanan can go 2 straight and Biggs can 3 turn right behind him, Kanan can go 2 turn (note – if your opponent corners the first rock, you cannot clear the 2 turn, use your 2nd rock placement to protect the other corner by putting it at R3ish from the edges), and Biggs can either 4 straight, or 2 bank, or Kanan and Biggs can both 2 bank. 

 

This particular matchup, I setup on the left side, and cut across my edge with a 2 turn from Kanan and 4 straight from Biggs.  Fenn was setup across from me, Dengar centered on the rocks, and the Z95 on the far corner.  Fenn charged down at me and Dengar weaved through the rocks, the first round of combat left Fenn barely inside of R3 of Kanan, where Fenn proceeded to do 1 shield (keeping his F for defense), and Kanan knocked off 1 hull via the TLT.  The next round found Fenn and Dengar in range and arc of both of my ships, I believe Dengar flopped on his 2v2 attack onto Biggs, while Fenn managed to arc dodge Biggs, so Fenn had a 4v0 shot onto Kanan for 3 more shields.  Biggs took a R1 shot of opportunity at Fenn, managing to get 2 more hull, but since Fenn was in Kanan’s blind spot, so I switched my focus to Dengar, R2 in arc and then hammered into him with Kanan’s primary.  The attack stripped 3shields, and the TLT did the remaining shield and a hull.  Meanwhile, his revenge shot klinked the last 2 shields off of Kanan.  The next round, his Z95 just BARELY got a TL on Kanan (we had to call a TO over for a ruling, that’s how close it was), and due to the stress (and the position of a rock), but Biggs setup a juicy block on Dengar, and Fenn (who was stressed due to R3A2) was left without a shot since he had to do a green to clear the stress.  So Kanan took an evade and passed a focus from Rey.  Dengar took a R1 shot 3v0 on Kanan for a damage (go go block for lack of rerolls), and Kanan was left with only a shot onto the Z95, 4v3 managed just 1 damage, so the Z95 shot back with his homing missiles, pushing through another 3 hull damage.  The end phase TLT did 2 more damage onto the Z95.  I suddenly start to consider the very realistic thought that I could lose the opening round, and my mind is thrown off and I realize that he has been outplaying me, isolating shots into Kanan without doing any damage to Biggs.  So I calm down and get Biggs involved again, Fenn is still circling around taking his time (my opponent was probably thinking he could finish me off with just Dengar, so why bother losing MoV), so I bring Biggs back into the fold.  With 6 hull left on Kanan, I can’t afford too many more shots onto him.  Dengar ends up at R3 in rear arc of Kanan, and I manage to do 2 hull with my primaries, and then polished him off with the TLT.  He didn’t get a revenge shot due to arc.  But he did manage put some more damage into Biggs, as did the Z95.  The next round, the 1 hull Z95 runs away, and Fenn manages to range dance Kanan while getting a shot on Biggs to finish him off.  The Z95 is now circling around while Fenn starts to hunt me down, but very cautiously – at first he ends up actually giving me a free shot on the Z95 as he tried to come from out of range into R1 blind spot, but the EU prevent that from ever happening.  Between 4 TLT shots, I managed to not kill the Z95, but the poor guy continued to keep him out of the mix.  Eventually, he gave up the R1 approach and just decided to trade R3 shots, keeping his focus for defense.  With only 4 hull left, I was taking the evade action and passing a F from Rey, but it did take 2 rounds of 4 TLT shots before I finally managed to kill Fenn.  At this point, my opponent conceded with Kanan at 3 hull remaining (and the shuttle still docked) against his 1 hull Z95.  While I did manage to win, this was not a very strong start to the day, and I was starting to feel like perhaps I could just leave early and not have to stay until the end at 8pm.

1-0, 146 MOV

 

Round 2

Inquisitor w/ Push the Limit, TIE /v1, Auto Thrusters

Vessery w/ Juke, TIE /x7, Stealth Device

Omicron Group Pilot w/ Palpatine, Fire Control System

 

My round 2 opponent is one of the better local players and we get along pretty well.  I wasn’t excited to go up against him because I knew every turn was going to be a contested turn and there were no “give-mes” playing against him.   I also wasn’t particularly thrilled about facing his list, and for good reason I might add.  Now, let me preface the run through with the fact that he must have sacrificed a goat or maybe his first born to the dice gods.  One of the reasons my list typically works is because the 4 dice primary can typically pull off all of the tokens/palp, leaving the TLTs to go through tokenless defenders (no pun intended).  This was NOT the case in this matchup.  Once again, I start in the left, and he places Inq and Palp in the top right, with Vess coming through the rocks.  I turned to go across my edge again, dragging his list through the rocks to engage me quickly or allow me to get a few focus tokens.  The first round of shooting happened on the second round, preventing me from storing those beloved tokens, but it was just with Vessery.  Actually, both the first and second round was just Vess.  Between the 8 TLT shots, I managed to not get a single point of damage pushed through, and he had done 3 damage to Biggs.  So when I was faced with a R2 shot onto the Inq, or an obstructed set of TLTs onto Vess for the 3rd round of shooting, I took my chances on the Inq… And continued to do nothing.  I believe I managed to get 1 shield from a TLT shot.  Biggs had to eject his droid before he shot, so I was inable to double stress Inq.  The next round had me shooting at the shuttle, where over 2 rounds I managed to bring it down to 1 hull remaining, but he was able to escape without me being able to give chase.  At some point I managed to push 2 more damage through on Inq, as I turned around to finish of Palp. With 15 minutes left to play, I had 6 hull left to his 1 hull Inq and untouched Vess – things weren’t particularly looking good.  But due to a choice boost, I managed to catch the Inq in arc R1, and after about a 3 minute debate, he decided to barrel roll + boost, thinking he could catch Kanan in his arc, and perhaps between Vess and Inq he could polish me off before I shot at the Inq.  I can’t say that I particularly blame him for that choice, but it did back fire as he ended up without arc.  So I spent Rey’s focus to make Vessery’s shot 2v1 (R3), taking 1 damage, and then was all set to finish off Inq with 5 dice and a TL.  I roll hit blank blank blank blank, target lock those 4 blanks for hit blank blank blank… Inq rolls Evade Evade blank and lives.  The TLT just continues to clink off of Vess in the end phase, and I’ve pretty much given up all hope at this point.  He retreats with Inq, leaving Vess to finish off the remaining 5 hull, but I do manage to just barely get Inq in R3.  On the 4th shot, I finally push the final damage through.  But in the meantime, Kanan is now down to 3 hull.  A few more minutes pass, and I still haven’t managed to do any damage to Vess, and he has whittled me down to 1 hull.  Then time is called, and he can’t finish me off.  I win on points, even though I was clearly losing the actual match.

2-0, 154 MOV

 

Round 3

Maarek Stele w/ Predator*, TIE /x7, Mark II

Rear Admiral Chiraneau w/Adaptability, Hot Shot Co-Pilot, Gunner, Ysanne Isard, Engine Upgrade

 

 I wish I could say that R3 was the fastest match of the day, but in reality, I think it was only the 3rd fastest.  In either case, the match heavily favors me, and I was practicing against a guy the night before running the same list.  Not much to say about this one besides that I went for RAC first, managing to take him out before losing Biggs (or at the same time, I forget exactly when it happened, but Kanan was at full health).  It’s pretty simple really, Kanan was consistently putting out 5-6 damage a round, with 1-2 from Biggs sprinkled in, so it only took 3 rounds to kill RAC.  From there, Maarek doesn’t really stand a chance.  I’d already built up a supply of focuses, so he can only do 1 damage a turn, and it took ~3 turns to TLT Maarek to death.  This was a pure match up win, but after two really close ones to start the day, I’ll take the match up win.

3-0, 327 MOV

 

Round 4

Bossk w/ Crack Shot, Mangler Cannon, 4-LOM, Zuckuss, Dengar, Rigged Cargo Chute*

Tel Trevura w/ Predator, Gonk, R5-P8, Punishing One, Hull Upgrade

 

This game was streamed!  But I haven’t watched the recording yet, so I’ll give a bit of a recap based on memory, but I don’t want to go into too much detail and then have someone call me out on it.  I treated this almost like a rebel regen list, but pushed so much damage through that it changed my priority half way through the game, and then made me feel bad about not finishing Tel off.  My generic strategy against rebel regen is to hurt one of them enough that they run away from the fight to regen.  Meanwhile the rest of my list slaughters their remaining 50-60 points, and then I’m in a much better position than my opponent.  This pretty much worked, with the exception that I got Tel down to 1 hull, and then allowed him (her?) to escape.  But I was then capable of dealing with Bossk on his own, which is much easier to do than deal with 2 ships.  Honestly, I’m kind of embarrassed that this is my game that got streamed.  I ended up going through several debris fields, preventing me from getting actions for several turns, and ending up running out of Rey tokens.  Either way, I managed to kill off Bossk with minimal damage to Kanan.  From there, it should have been simple to kill the remaining 4 health of Tel, except I ran out of any luck that I previously may or may not have had.  I couldn’t roll 3 hits on the TLT, and my opponent kept dodging the 1-2 that I was rolling.  Then I was hit with a Weapons Malfunction crit, which made it even more obnoxious.  I had restored my stock of Rey tokens, but he was staying at R3 to prevent Kanan’s ability, so I was faced with the option to roll to fix the crit, or take an evade.  I decided to just screw it and launch the shuttle.  The first round that the shuttle was out, I mistakenly took a 3v3 primary from Kanan out the rear for 1 damage – you can see this on the stream.  But what you don’t see is that we realized that mistake the following round, and off camera redid it for SnGs with TLTs, where I did 1 damage as well.  The choice offered was to keep the 1 damage that the primary did, or since no new shots had been made, we could redo it with the TLT, he chose to just keep the 1 damage as he felt that the TLT should have done 2 (and then we found out it only did 1 anyways).  The final round, my opponent was faced with either going for Zeb, hoping to 1 shot him, or trying to finish off a 4 hull Kanan (without an evade token though).  He figured 4F vs. 2F for 4 damage was more plausible than 3F vs 1F for 3 damage and a direct hit.  I probably agree with his reasoning.  Zeb ended living and getting his only kill of the day (which is more than Biggs can say!).

4-0, 473 MOV

 

Round 5

Asajj Ventress w/ Push the Limit, Latts Razzi, Engine Upgrade

Dengar w/ Lone Wolf*, Recon Specialist, R5-P8*, Punishing One

 

This was a great game.  It was a close contested game that was enjoyable to play at the same time.  I started on left side, Asajj lined up over the rocks, and Dengar on the top right.  I went straight up the left side.  I’m pretty sure his plan was to zip by me with Asajj, and then have Dengar in front of me, sandwiching me between the two.  But that didn’t quite work out as intended.  The first round of combat, Asajj PTL, then stressed Kanan and took a shot at Biggs (R3), then Biggs returned fire stressing Asajj, and during one of Kanan’s shots, she removed the stress for an evade.  This allowed me to zoom forward with Kanan, following suit with Biggs (keeping the stress) and forcing Asajj, with her turret facing forward, to zip past us and clear stress without participating in the fight.  I had stripped Asajj’s shields, but switched targets to Dengar, who was already down a shield by just barely nicking a rock on the opening round.  I managed to strip the remaining shields, while keeping Biggs alive, and the following round, I blocked Dengar with Biggs, and blasted him 5v2 out the rear for 3hits and a crit, which flipped up into a direct, taking him off the board.  From there, the 7 hull Asajj put up quite the fight as she circled back into the fight, taking out Biggs and forcing Kanan to use a bunch of his actions to boost, preventing the Evade + Focus stack.  She really amazed me with how durable she is, consistently stressing me, F+E, saving both for defense, and then absorbing a 5 dice attack with minimal damage.  Between Latts and the Evade token, she was ensured 2 evades automatically, plus whatever symbols she rolled via her two greens.  And since she was keeping me in R1, she didn’t have to worry about the TLT during the end phase.  I was only managing 1-2 damage a turn, which pretty much match what she was doing 4v0 unmodified.  Eventually I kyted her far enough into the rocks though that my actions were no longer needed for boosting, allowing me to focus (for defense and offense), and finally polish off the remaining 2 hull.  I believe Kanan ended this with about 4 hull remaining, after starting the chase for Asajj (at 7 hull) missing only 2-3 shields.  Her PTL in the first round may have been the difference between a W and a L for Asajj.

5-0, 619 MOV

 

Round 6

Dengar w/ Lone Wolf, K4 Security Droid, R4-B11, Glitterstim, Punishing One, Counter Measures

Bossk w/ Predator, Zuckuss, 4-LOM, Greedo

 

Ahh, the sweet joy of being 5-0, knowing that no matter what, I was in the cut.  This was the first time I managed to go 5-0, and two of the three other 5-0 players were my friends, so I had a pretty good idea that I was going to have a fun Round 6 game.  I ended up getting matched up against Jeff Berling, and while the two of us are friends and go to all the same tournies, I’ve never matched up against him in one before.  So I was excited to finally get to play him in one, especially since a win wouldn’t knock him out.  Jeff was running his newest list that will be sprouting up throughout the remainder of the Regional season (or at least until W10 hits).  But he was less than excited to play against my list.  I’ve hyped Kanan/Biggs up to him since before Gencon, and continued to hype it up since and how easily it dismembers Dengaroo.  Once again I started on the left side, but proceeded across my edge.  He put Bossk across the rocks, and Dengar on the right side.  He charged with Bossk, and started to charge with Dengar, but feinted and retreated Dengar, leaving Bossk and all of his ridiculousness to take care of Biggs.  After previously listening to my strategy against Dengaroo, he decided that he was willing to take on Kanan 1v1 if Bossk could take out Biggs first.  Unfortunately for him, Bossk died before Biggs.  With no real way to mitigate my damage, Bossk just got pummeled, taking the full force of Kanan’s 4v1 primary, 2 more shields from Biggs (who had a focus due to 4LOM), and then 2 more from TLT.  The next round Biggs didn’t have a shot, and Bossk took him down to 1 hull, Kanan’s rear gun did 4 hits and a crit – stunned pilot.  Since Bossk had used 4LOM both turns in a row, he was ionized with stunned pilot and poised right in front of Biggs.  So Biggs just bumped into the rear of Kanan, blocking Bossk’s path, killing him off.  Meanwhile, Kanan started charging for Dengar, who was now running away, so he failed to get revenge shots.  A few short uneventful rounds later, Dengar was dead, Biggs was limping to hyperspace, and Kanan still had shields.  Second fastest win of the night.

6-0, 819 MOV

 

Side note:  Since this game only took ~20minutes, I walked over to the streaming table where another of my friends (Phil Horny) was playing his 5-0 match.  I would like to take a moment to give a shout out to the other Phil who took the time and equipment to stream this event.  It was awesome!  He wished me luck in my last game, and upon telling him I already won, he invited me to commentate on the match.  That was quite fun too!

 

 

Top 16

Dengar w/ Lone Wolf, Plasma Torpedoes, Flechette Torpedoes, Zuckuss, Overclocked R4, Inertial Dampeners, Counter Measures

Manaroo w/ Push the Limit, R5-P8*, Gonk, Feedback Array, Engine Upgrade

 

So for the first time in my X wing career, I managed to go undefeated throughout the swiss rounds.  My round 2 opponent managed to go 4-2, and MOV placed him somewhere around 20th, so he just missed the cut.  Now I know that you can’t play it out like that, but I felt bad that he got screwed in our match up on time, so I game him my thermal detonators as the top 16 prize.  My opponent for this round was a friendly acquaintance that I made earlier in the year when I randomly decided to travel to the Wisconsin Regional, so I was happy to play a friendly face.  I was also happy to play a meta list (if you look through my list of opponents, I didn’t really play any pure meta lists), especially one that I have tons of practice against, not only with Kanan/Biggs, but in general.  While he did have a slightly different variation than I’m used to (ID over GS), it ended up not mattering.  I setup on the right side, across from his Manaroo.  This obviously forces him to turn her inside and run away.  Meanwhile, Dengar was across the rocks, and came at me through the rocks.  I was faced with the option of turning in to the rocks to setup my primary, or stay to the perimeter for the TLT.  But I like to use Biggs to block, so I turned into the rock field to engage.  With 3 focus tokens (Recon + pass from Rey) for the first 2 rounds of combat, you can do some serious damage to Dengar.  By forcing the turn from Manaroo, Dengar was just slightly in R2 of Manny, shutting down the LW reroll.  That meant that the 4v2 primary did 3 damage, and both TLTs got through for 2 more damage on the opening round.  And his 2v3 on Biggs was completely blocked, and 2v0 revenge shot on Kanan was only a single shield.  From there, I did a 3 speed bank to the left, exposing my rear arc to the combat scene, fully expecting a 2 sloop from Dengar.  I positioned Biggs to block the 2 sloop, which coincidently meant that he was just barely in R1 of Kanan.  Instead, Dengar did a 2 turn, clearing Biggs, but putting him at R1 of Kanan, and R2 of Biggs.  This was mistake #1 for Dengar – had he activated his IDs, he would have been in Kanan’s blind spot, getting a free 2v2 shot on Biggs.  Mistake #2 was once he did the 2 turn, he should have used CM to clear my TL and increase his agility to 3.  But after 12 hours of X wing, you’re going to make mistakes.  As such, Biggs was clear to take a shot for a hull, leaving Dengar at 3 hull.  Kanan then finished him off 5v2.  17 minutes into the match my opponent conceded for the fastest match of the day.

 

 

 

Top 8

Countess Ryad w/ Juke, TIE /x7

Rear Admiral Chiraneau w/ Predator, Hot Shot Co-Pilot, Gunner, Darth Vader, Engine Upgrade

 

Ahh, it seems like I can’t get through a tourney without playing against Phil.  I love the guy, but dagnamit, he’s got my number.  I’m something like 2-8 against him at tourneys, and they’re never pretty.  I had a good feeling about this matchup though – as I’ve demonstrated several times throughout the day, Decimators just crumble to my list, I didn’t expect this to be much different.  He presented Ryad first, and I managed to take 2 shields over 8 TLT shots off of her.  But then RAC was in the fray, and I knew I had to take him out.  Sadly that just wasn’t meant to be.  Biggs died in two rounds of 3v3 shots.  Phil was excellent at keeping RAC just at R3 of Kanan, so I couldn’t use his ability.  Both shots on Biggs, I rolled EEF and evaded it, and then BFF, and took all 3 damage, killing him perfectly in 2 rounds.  My attack dice were cold as well – I managed to miss two TL+F TLT shots on RAC, leaving him alive for an additional round.  In order to prevent him from exploiting my blind spot, I was forced to boost and pass my last focus from Rey.  He ended with a R1 in rear arc on Kanan, I spent my single focus to make it 3v0, and he rolled hit focus blank, and used predator to turn the hit into a blank, triggering gunner, giving him all 4 dice, and rolling CHHF, RAC ability to CCHH.  The two hits took off my last 2 shields, and pushed through blinded pilot and weapons failure.  The next round I was able to finally kill RAC, but not before pushing damaged cockpit and shaken pilot (white = stress) through, along with a few more face down damage.  I believe I had 5 hull remaining at this point, against a 4 health Ryad – which may not be a horrible position if not the crits that I had sustained.  The fastest way for me to move would be 2 green plus boost, which isn’t fast enough to run away from a Defender to fix my ship up and get some focus tokens.  So I had to launch the shuttle, hoping that it’s shot could clear the tokens for Kanan’s TLT to push through some damage, making Phil at least very cautious going up against the shuttle.  But as I’m sure you all are well aware, 3v3 with FE just isn’t enough to do damage, nevertheless consistent damage.  So after about 8 rounds of dancing (the two of us know how each other play very well), he managed to finally knock Zeb out of the fight, winning him a set of ugly orange templates.  Phil would go on to defend his title from last year, winning the entire thing again, so I suppose losing to the winner isn’t the worst outcome.

Well, it took me until about 11:30 to finally get eliminated, so I ended up having to get up nice and early to make my 5hr drive in the morning instead.  Oh well, at least I have some sparkly dice for all of it.  Plus I had a blast!

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Great write up of an interesting variation on K/B! Will give it a proper look tomorrow.

Are you ever tempted to upgrade the shuttle to Rage/chopper Ezra, out of interest?

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Great write up of an interesting variation on K/B! Will give it a proper look tomorrow.

Are you ever tempted to upgrade the shuttle to Rage/chopper Ezra, out of interest?

 

My Gencon list started as Ezra w/ LW + Hera for a similar effect (at least on defense).  But I'm now 2-3 when the shuttle has to deploy, and it really should be 1-3 if not for a weapons failure crit.  So imo, each point invested in the shuttle is a point that could have been more useful in the actual list.

Edited by Khyros
FuturistiKen and Karhedron like this

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HUGE kudos to your for this write up, your level of play at the Regional, and your cameo on the stream. 

This list definitely stands up to the current meta if you can push enough damage through (which is why I advocate for "Final Form" TLT, al la M9-G8), but you have to bump to prevent shots on Kanan once Biggs hits the dirt. 

Who knows what happens when Wave X comes out.

 

It burns to know that this list's evil twin won that regional... 

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Thanks for this write up! i've done well locally with my ghost/biggs list but was nervous thinking about taking it to a big time tourney. I'm gonna practice and give it a go! I may bug you here and there with strategy questions!

Khyros likes this

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Have at it. I'm glad I have inspired you to give it a go on the main stage. I'd be glad to answer any questions you have, but since the ABT flies so differently, I'm not sure if any advice I have would be applicable to non-TLT variants.

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Well I switched mine to TLT yesterday. Although I have not done EU or R3A2 on biggs either. Def gonna give it a try!I keep trying to move on, but something says keep playing the ghost! Have you ever run with Kyle tlt moldy crow before? I like that list too. It was my super expensive way of ensuring I had a focus even if bumped

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Well I switched mine to TLT yesterday. Although I have not done EU or R3A2 on biggs either. Def gonna give it a try!I keep trying to move on, but something says keep playing the ghost! Have you ever run with Kyle tlt moldy crow before? I like that list too. It was my super expensive way of ensuring I had a focus even if bumped

 

I must admit, the only wingmen I have run with Kanan have been Biggs (with a Phantom docked) and Miranda (without a Phantom docked).  That's not to say that there aren't other pieces that can pair up with him - pretty much any endgame ship is a good wingman.  I would question Kyle w/ MC just because the HWK platform is... Let's just say flawed.  I would be more inclined to try a Jan w/ Jyn HWK than I would a Kyle HWK.  But if you have experience that is contrary to my theorycraft, please enlighten me!

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I have played a few games with kyle, Naked Zeb, and kanan. kyle had moldy crow, TLT, Rec Spec. kanan had Dorsal, FCS, Rec Spec x2. it was a moving fortress. kyle  didnt protect bigs, but he helped kill a lot of ships early game. each round i could do anywhere between 10-6 damage. when it was concentrated fire i usually blew up a ship per turn. With Dorsal, i found that people didnt adjust to it so i unbelievably ended up throwing 3 dice at the end of each combat phase lol. if they were at range 2, throwing two dice with a focus and TL still did just about 1 damage a round. i will say, this was before X7 so it has not been vetted against some of the current meta stuff. all in all, the big difference i noticed was that bigs and kyle lasted around the same amount rounds 2-3, but kyle put out a lot more offense.I liked the  brutish play-style, i could usually tell by round 3 if i was going to win or not. this list almost forced people two joust because at any range, 360 degrees, i was shooting at something!

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The stream of my R4 match is now available on Youtube:

 

I haven't had the chance to watch it myself yet, but I am looking forward to seeing how many times I screwed up.

IG88E and infyrana like this

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I ran your list 3 times on friday and went 2-1. my opponent was baffled at how hard it hit! my loss was due to the fact that i was too risky with biggs, (I tried to split them for a round hoping my opponent would take shots at a defenseless ghost...he did not), I only focused on using TLT instead of in my initial engagement using my primary weapon, it was my first time flying it lol. I am running this list, i will give you any credit you are due. I love this ship and overall, with ghost lists  I am 8-3, but your list has invigorated me! Kudos!

Khyros likes this

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I ran your list 3 times on friday and went 2-1. my opponent was baffled at how hard it hit! my loss was due to the fact that i was too risky with biggs, (I tried to split them for a round hoping my opponent would take shots at a defenseless ghost...he did not), I only focused on using TLT instead of in my initial engagement using my primary weapon, it was my first time flying it lol. I am running this list, i will give you any credit you are due. I love this ship and overall, with ghost lists  I am 8-3, but your list has invigorated me! Kudos!

The list came from Calen Wong. He got the idea from last regional at top 8.

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I ran your list 3 times on friday and went 2-1. my opponent was baffled at how hard it hit! my loss was due to the fact that i was too risky with biggs, (I tried to split them for a round hoping my opponent would take shots at a defenseless ghost...he did not), I only focused on using TLT instead of in my initial engagement using my primary weapon, it was my first time flying it lol. I am running this list, i will give you any credit you are due. I love this ship and overall, with ghost lists  I am 8-3, but your list has invigorated me! Kudos!

The list came from Calen Wong. He got the idea from last regional at top 8.

Not saying I'm the first person to run it, but seeing as it's an iteration that I ran at Gencon last year, perhaps this Calen Wong adapted his list from my first one. And Kanan/Biggs w/ EU and stressbot is a very specific twist on the generic Kanan/Biggs that's been around since w8 launched.

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I ran your list 3 times on friday and went 2-1. my opponent was baffled at how hard it hit! my loss was due to the fact that i was too risky with biggs, (I tried to split them for a round hoping my opponent would take shots at a defenseless ghost...he did not), I only focused on using TLT instead of in my initial engagement using my primary weapon, it was my first time flying it lol. I am running this list, i will give you any credit you are due. I love this ship and overall, with ghost lists I am 8-3, but your list has invigorated me! Kudos!

The list came from Calen Wong. He got the idea from last regional at top 8.

Not saying I'm the first person to run it, but seeing as it's an iteration that I ran at Gencon last year, perhaps this Calen Wong adapted his list from my first one. And Kanan/Biggs w/ EU and stressbot is a very specific twist on the generic Kanan/Biggs that's been around since w8 launched.

I know because u got the list from me before gencon at regional. Well ur ghost and mir is not bad

Edited by tyllon

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I ran your list 3 times on friday and went 2-1. my opponent was baffled at how hard it hit! my loss was due to the fact that i was too risky with biggs, (I tried to split them for a round hoping my opponent would take shots at a defenseless ghost...he did not), I only focused on using TLT instead of in my initial engagement using my primary weapon, it was my first time flying it lol. I am running this list, i will give you any credit you are due. I love this ship and overall, with ghost lists I am 8-3, but your list has invigorated me! Kudos!

The list came from Calen Wong. He got the idea from last regional at top 8.

Not saying I'm the first person to run it, but seeing as it's an iteration that I ran at Gencon last year, perhaps this Calen Wong adapted his list from my first one. And Kanan/Biggs w/ EU and stressbot is a very specific twist on the generic Kanan/Biggs that's been around since w8 launched.

I know because u got the list from me before gencon at regional. Well ur ghost and mir is not bad

 

BRO... Get off Khyros nuts!!! there was so much positive energy in here and your BS wasnt needed.... we fly plastic ships dude.....

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Just keeping this thread going! I placed second out of 18 in a local tourney yesterday! I would have come in first, but i let my opponent re-do several things (then upon reflection realized i would have stomped him had i not been so casual lol). either way, this list makes people nervous. i love engine upgrade on it! I boosted into range two to take advantage of TLT, i boosted out of arcs, i boosted into range three to get a defensive die, i boosted into range 1 to deal the final blow with a eyeball/TL 5 dice attack! also, R3-A2 was great! I stressed regen corran so he couldnt 4k back into the fight! This let me when 100 - 0 bc he couldnt turn around to get biggs in time (yes biggs made it through the whole match!). I stressed one attani mindlinked ship to deal stress to the whole lot of them, I stressed a defender into doing a 2 straight then got behind him with biggs!

 

 

this list is mean! I have regionals this saturday, wish me luck!

TerTer and Khyros like this

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Good luck man!  I'm super excited to see others starting to realize how devastating Kanan can be.  His longevity continually surprises people, while he continues to lay down the hurt.  I went up against a Super Dash list the other night, and the guy thought he had it in the bag when he had Dash at full health vs 1 shield Kanan.  With only 1 modifier, he was often only getting 1 damage from the HLC - Kanan's ability reduced the dice to 3, and a single modifier on his part meant that it was often only 2 hits, and then the evade token for 1 damage.  Meanwhile, the TLT was getting 2-3 damage through consistently.  Kanan ended with 9 hull and he didn't even get half credit.

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Just keeping this thread going! I placed second out of 18 in a local tourney yesterday! I would have come in first, but i let my opponent re-do several things (then upon reflection realized i would have stomped him had i not been so casual lol). either way, this list makes people nervous. i love engine upgrade on it! I boosted into range two to take advantage of TLT, i boosted out of arcs, i boosted into range three to get a defensive die, i boosted into range 1 to deal the final blow with a eyeball/TL 5 dice attack! also, R3-A2 was great! I stressed regen corran so he couldnt 4k back into the fight! This let me when 100 - 0 bc he couldnt turn around to get biggs in time (yes biggs made it through the whole match!). I stressed one attani mindlinked ship to deal stress to the whole lot of them, I stressed a defender into doing a 2 straight then got behind him with biggs!

 

 

this list is mean! I have regionals this saturday, wish me luck!

 

Have few questions (As im struggling right now with Rebels vs meta, but still like idea of ghost (kanan and biggs)):

 

Is R3A2 better that R2D2 on biggs in your opinion?

Also is Rey better that Tactician? As i think that additional Stress could make some impact?

Another one is tactical jammer, did you try it? I don't think it's worth, what you think?

Engine upgrade, how essential is that in this list? Yes i see you write you boost in R1-R3 if needed, but then you lose your double focus.

Chopper is there just in case i assume? As 1 damage to 4HP ship is not that great :)

 

Also what you think about HotShot Co-Pilot as crew for Kanan or R2D2 crew?

Edited by TerTer

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Is R3A2 better that R2D2 on biggs in your opinion?

-I think you can make a case for both.  R2D2 can work well with Tactical Jammer, and the games that you don't need Engine Upgrade, it's probably better.  But in the games that you need EU, you'll lose without EU.

 

Also is Rey better that Tactician? As i think that additional Stress could make some impact?

-Hands down, 100% better.  I played the Tactician version before Rey came out, and it was good, don't get me wrong, but the end game ability of reducing the attack and taking an evade is much better than the ability to potentially stress someone.

 

Another one is tactical jammer, did you try it? I don't think it's worth, what you think?

-TJ is definitely worth the 1 point.  But it's not worth the mod slot.  See above on R2D2 vs. R3A2

 

Engine upgrade, how essential is that in this list? Yes i see you write you boost in R1-R3 if needed, but then you lose your double focus.

-I use boost VERY sparingly.  But it's essential against imp aces, especially in the end game.  They can exploit the R1 blindside of the ship if you don't have EU.  I only ever use it to prevent the loss of a shot.

 

Chopper is there just in case I assume? As 1 damage to 4HP ship is not that great  :)

-Yup, 0 point crew, why not take it :)  I have yet to ever use it on Zeb, but there are definitely niche scenarios that it would be useful.  To be fair, I'm like 2-4 when I actually have to deploy the shuttle, but it can be useful for an emergency barrel roll to get out of arcs where you'd be taking more than 1 damage, as well as when you have 2 health left and you shoot first and your only chance is to kill the guy before he kills you.  

 

Also what you think about HotShot Co-Pilot as crew for Kanan or R2D2 crew?

-Both sound great on a VCX-100, but Kanan's married to Rey.  I'd be more willing to drop Recon Spec, but I don't think either of those are better than Recon.  I love the HSCP on any other VCX though.

TerTer likes this

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