Game Release... and immediately out of stock

[Mep 2,291]

It can take a couple years to build a game up. Pretty sure FFG is happy to play the long game with this. I am sure anyone who likes this game will get back into it when the supply is right. This is a bad time of year to figure out a new plan. Our holidays closed everything down for a while and then China went on their big new year holiday. So yeah, FFG hasn't said what they are going to do because they probably don't know yet. So just relax, the plastic crack will be flowing again and they will probably let people know in a few weeks.

[Engine25 2,910]

I'm just trying to get a start in the game and its near impossible to do so.  The owner of the FLGS where I play most and buy most of my games told me yesterday that his distributor says they are not expecting a restock/reprint of the first booster and that it might be over.  They'll eventually get new core sets and the next wave, which he has ordered mountainous stock of because of these shortages.

Could be wrong, but this is what a shop owner just told me who has been trying to restock for months.

[Network57 561]

FWIW, my LGS had 2 full boxes in stock on Friday, and they didn't seem to indicate any difficulty in keeping supply. The community here is small so there's not a huge demand, but that's my 2 cents to the supply discussion.

[Veruca 190]

3 hours ago, Engine25 said:

... says they are not expecting a restock/reprint of the first booster...

Well, if that's the case, I'm just not gonna bother with this game. Maybe I'll pick up new starter packs if they ever decide to do them, but not being able to even buy the first wave of a game, what's the point then?

[LordFajubi 1,308]

8 minutes ago, Veruca said:

Well, if that's the case, I'm just not gonna bother with this game. Maybe I'll pick up new starter packs if they ever decide to do them, but not being able to even buy the first wave of a game, what's the point then?

I find this very unlikely as it would be a VERY poor business descision. You won't be the only one out if Awakenings is done. I have a near complete collection and would sell it in a hot second because I don't care what any johnny sunshine says blowing rainbows up my bottom this game is dead at that point. It will piss off way too many people. So like I said I am really doubting they are that thick. X wing isn't that cool that FFG can crap all over it's user base and they say, "Thank you sir may I have another?" They aren't Apple.

[Engine25 2,910]

14 minutes ago, Veruca said:

Well, if that's the case, I'm just not gonna bother with this game. Maybe I'll pick up new starter packs if they ever decide to do them, but not being able to even buy the first wave of a game, what's the point then?

Oh he, myself, and many others hope that he's wrong. But it's certainly within the realm of possibility with collectible card games.  Limited print runs oh a given expansion are a staple, are they not? 

[LordFajubi 1,308]

And not to poo poo too much about this game I really do like it but there is a long term problem with any dice game that most don't realize will be an issue, storage. I have been into dice masters since AVX, the first set for those who don't know, and have complete sets all the way to the 8th set or so and stuff beyond. Know what I don't have? Room to store another 1000 dice. It is a nightmare keeping track of all those dice, proper cards for the dice, and all the little extras that have to go with it and I am a crazy OCD nut that loves organizing. Destiny doesn't even have a noticeable difference in the dice. At 3 ft they are all blue, yellow or red and I think even the ones who love it will start dropping at the point it becomes a real hassle to store in a useful manner. Sorry for the psuedo rant but that has been bugging me more and more lately in completing this set and planning for the next. It's not near as many dice per set but I think the ambiguous physical design of the dice is gonna make up for the smaller number in ass painery.

Edited February 5, 2017 by LordFajubi

[Amanal 2,557]

5 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

And not to poo poo too much about this game I really do like it but there is a long term problem with any dice game that most don't realize will be an issue, storage....

I have some of the Boxes we were given at the pre-release events, they hold 20 dice in 3 layers. I use one box for each colour and I have a fifth that I use for "overflow". For Legendary dice I use a plastic lunch/tackle box that holds 5x12 in a single layer.

[LordFajubi 1,308]

I have a pretty eligant solution for dice masters in putting sets of 4 dice 6 deep in 3x5 ziptop bags and then use a stackon tool box to seperate the sets, cards are easy to store. My problem with Destiny is the dice are too big and only group in pairs unless you have a 4 set for neutral. It's just gonna be way harder to sort with those criteria especially since all red dice look alike, all yellow etc. Sorting by set seems the most sensible as things go forward, like from Awakenings all villain reds , blue villain, yellow etc etc. Then having seperate containers for each set. It just seems like a fantastic hassle in the making.

Edited February 6, 2017 by LordFajubi

[rastoma 6]

On 2/4/2017 at 2:45 AM, Mep said:

 

 

 

 

On 2/5/2017 at 11:27 AM, Engine25 said:

that his distributor says they are not expecting a restock/reprint of the first booster and that it might be over.  

 

I was told the same thing by stores around Chattanooga, TN.  People are selling their cards and starter sets on Ebay because of the profit and don't plan on getting back in the game.

I tried to start a new thread about my experience of just finding out about the game and going from Birmingham, AL to Chattanooga, TN to find product and starter sets only finding a few boosters.  I explained how the excitement is already dying down and people are fed up with no information coming from FFG and that even if stock is plentiful later they have a bad taste in their mouth already.... as have I.

It would only take a minute for someone from Asmodee or FFG to tell us SOMETHING.  But they can't be bothered to type a few words in a bulletin or forum post and that in itself makes me not want to support them.  I realize there are fanboys here that won't care how bad these companies are at customer service or caring about customers period and will bow and thank them when new boosters come out.  

There's no excuse for such a short amount of starter kits.  The excuse that they underestimated demand doesn't fly.  FFG didn't open up shop last year.  They have decades of experience and almost always has anything SW related been extremely in demand.  The cost of paper, ink and some plastic dice is at least 50% of the MSRP, if not less.  So buying more than anticipated would not have been a big deal to their bottom line.  As always it would have sold eventually.

Plus they already had the artwork and boosters planned for the SECOND WAVE before the first wave was even released.  If they underestimated demand then there is no way they would have a second series of boosters coming out so soon.  IMHO they did on purpose to create an even higher artificial demand.

But every post I've made starting a new thread about my bad experiences at FLGS's regarding Destiny gets deleted.  So that on top of them knowing how many people are just simply wanting ANY KIND OF RESPONSE from them but they prefer to ignore us leaves me with no respect for them whatsoever and I will not spend another $1 on this game.  I realize 1 person is going make a difference and they could care less that I'm quitting before even getting started and there are many of you who don't care either.  But I had to get it off my chest anyway.

Edited February 8, 2017 by rastoma

[ScottieATF 2,867]

If you plan to release 3 sets a year, which means every 4 months, and your product is made overseas then your next set is always going to be designed and ready to go to the printer as soon as the previous set comes close to release.  It takes 2 nearly months just to ship stuff over here, let alone lead time, and physical manufacturing.  How else do you think that works?

How does FFG benefit from selling less product in this situation?  There are sunk cost associated with developing a new product.  Money spent developing the concept, testing out iterations of the mechanics, mock ups for the product, etc.  All those costs exist whether you make 1000 or 10,000 units.  The more units you make the more you spread those cost around making each individual unit cheaper and your profit margin higher.

This isn't a high end sports car.  Exclusivity is not a selling point to this type of product proliferation is.

It's not as if this isn't a common theme with FFG.  They are a risk adverse company when it comes to new products, that's it.  You don't need to come up with some conspiracy theory that requires you to throw out irrational assertions to explain why they didn't create enough product to meet demand.

[Engine25 2,910]

11 minutes ago, rastoma said:

 

I was told the same thing by stores around Chattanooga, TN.  People are selling their cards and starter sets on Ebay because of the profit and don't plan on getting back in the game.

I tried to start a new thread about my experience of just finding out about the game and going from Birmingham, AL to Chattanooga, TN to find product and starter sets only finding a few boosters.  I explained how the excitement is already dying down and people are fed up with no information coming from FFG and that even if stock is plentiful later they have a bad taste in their mouth already.... as have I.

It would only take a minute for someone from Asmodee or FFG to tell us SOMETHING.  But they can't be bothered to type a few words in a bulletin or forum post and that in itself makes me not want to support them.  I realize there are fanboys here that won't care how bad these companies are at customer service or caring about customers period and will bow and thank them when new boosters come out.  

There's no excuse for such a short amount of starter kits.  The excuse that they underestimated demand doesn't fly.  FFG didn't open up shop last year.  They have decades of experience and almost always has anything SW related been extremely in demand.  The cost of paper, ink and some plastic dice is at least 50% of the MSRP, if not less.  So buying more than anticipated would not have been a big deal to their bottom line.  As always it would have sold eventually.

Plus they already had the artwork and boosters planned for the SECOND WAVE before the first wave was even released.  If they underestimated demand then there is no way they would have a second series of boosters coming out so soon.  IMHO they did on purpose to create an even higher artificial demand.

But every post I've made starting a new thread about my bad experiences at FLGS's regarding Destiny gets deleted.  So that on top of them knowing how many people are just simply wanting ANY KIND OF RESPONSE from them but they prefer to ignore us leaves me with no respect for them whatsoever and I will not spend another $1 on this game.  I realize 1 person is going make a difference and they could care less that I'm quitting before even getting started and there are many of you who don't care either.  But I had to get it off my chest anyway.

 

I definitely hope that he was wrong about it not getting restocked, but who knows.  Core sets will definitely get restocked as soon as possible at our FLGS, as they are expecting a reprint on those (even know it doesn't say so on the website, there will be more starters at some point, either the current ones or new ones).  As far as developing ahead, that is par of the course for Fantasy Flight.  For X-wing and Imperial Assault, when the game released, the following TWO waves were extremely deep in development by the time the core set and first wave hit the shelves.  They absolutely should have predicted the demand, but there's no way it would stop them from developing forward.  The silence is definitely frustrating, but at least we got some tidbits on upcoming content from Team Covenant.

 

I'm new to card games, but unfortunately, isn't it pretty normal for a booster wave to be temporary and have limited stock?  Even if, admittedly, that limit was substantially higher than the product we've seen, a booster is, by design of a collectible game, made to be only temporarily available and once it's gone that's it in primary market.  I definitely don't have all the cards I'd like to, but I've also basically burned out on boosters so I'm going trade/secondary market anyway. We can only hope the next wave doesn't fall short on stock.  That said, I'd prefer they took some time before releasing it.  April or May would be nice.  Don't want to have to buy any more boosters in Q1.

[Mep 2,291]

Yeah, they already have communicated the manufacturing problems and their time table for production on this game and explained why the 3rd set is already at the printer.

[Bojanglez 2,158]

On 2/5/2017 at 0:55 PM, Veruca said:

Well, if that's the case, I'm just not gonna bother with this game. Maybe I'll pick up new starter packs if they ever decide to do them, but not being able to even buy the first wave of a game, what's the point then?

Precisely how I feel. I don't need another hobby where poor/limited production runs means I am paying artificial prices just to keep up.

harrumph, harrumph!

[Mep 2,291]

That artificial prices is part of the problem. There are people who actually invest in this stuff. They'll buy hundreds of boxes and just set on them until they increase in value. So while FFG fell short of supply, the investment hoarders are setting on tens of thousands of boxes right now. The sad thing is, the more supply is a problem, the more people hoard it, creating a bigger supply problem. I truly hope FFG does another huge printing of this and makes the hoarders eat their shirts.

[rastoma 6]

6 minutes ago, Mep said:

 So while FFG fell short of supply, the investment hoarders are setting on tens of thousands of boxes right now. 

1

There's no way to know this for sure.  It's only a guess and very unlikely.  Maybe a few hundred at best.  I doubt there were tens of thousands even made.  From what people have seen in stores there were only a few boxes per store received.  Online purchases sold out but they claimed they only received a few thousand.  There wasn't enough even made for people to be 'sitting on' tens of thousands of boxes.  If there was Ebay would be FLOODED with these tens of thousands of boxes.

Edited February 8, 2017 by rastoma

[rastoma 6]

20 minutes ago, Mep said:

Yeah, they already have communicated the manufacturing problems and their time table for production on this game and explained why the 3rd set is already at the printer.

 

Where was this announcement?

[Mep 2,291]

They did some press events covered by Team Covenant on youtube.

[rastoma 6]

57 minutes ago, ScottieATF said:

  It takes 2 nearly months just to ship stuff over here, let alone lead time, and physical manufacturing.  How else do you think that works?

 

 

I know how that works, that was my point.  They already had in the works the next wave of boosters, and the next ones after that.  So who did they think were going to buy those boosters?  The comparetively few people that bought the starter kits?  It's ridiculous to think that they planned a game that far in the future with what will end up being hundreds of thousands of booster packs, but then say "ehhh, we think only a few thousand people will actually play the game so we don't need that many starter sets".  No company is that stupid.  So what's left that actually makes sense then?  It was a planned shortage.

Quote

 All those costs exist whether you make 1000 or 10,000 units.  The more units you make the more you spread those cost around making each individual unit cheaper and your profit margin higher.

 

 

EXACTLY.  That was another point I was trying to make.  It would not have hurt their bottom line to make so many starter sets that they would be sitting on them for a few weeks or months.  As you have mentioned, they have boosters coming out 4 times a year.  The starter sets would have sold eventually as customers saw 'new' boosters every few months and which would draw more people in.  But the 'frantic' fan base would not have been so... well.... 'frantic'.  To ensure that, you create a shortage.

Quote

You don't need to come up with some conspiracy theory that requires you to throw out irrational assertions to explain why they didn't create enough product to meet demand.

 

 

It's not irrational.  It's looking at what a company that is what, around TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD has done.  What makes more sense?  A company almost 3 decades old not knowing their own business and what to expect with an IP that's the biggest in their line-up, or a company that's almost 3 decades old and knows EXACTLY what they are doing with an IP and product that is released around the same time as the movie!  It makes sense to believe the latter.  What has happened was exactly what was MEANT to happen.

Edited February 8, 2017 by rastoma

[Hawkman2000 352]

People have mentioned wanting some type of communication from FFG, but I have to wonder what that is supposed to look like. Would people feel better if FFG just came out and said "hey, sorry there's no product." Would that really make people feel better? 

Like it or not, FFG accomplished exactly what they set out to do - make a game, make it hot, make it sell. Destiny is super hot and is sold-out, with stores and people petitioning for more. FFG has to measure this carefully because too much product will saturate the market and then people won't care. Star Wars collectors love things that are rare and/or hot and this game is definitely feeling like that. 

Sure, back in the day, companies went big with production. I remember tripping over boxes of Decipher's Star Wars CCG, the TCG, boosters of Heroclix in the aisles of Toys-R-Us, MageKnight, etc. all before the economic downturn a few years back. At that time action figures grinded to a near halt, WizKids put themselves on the market to sell their company, and lots of things in general slowed down. We're never going to get back to before that time, where companies over-produced just because they could. Today, sure Magic still makes it rain cards, but that's because they have solidified their game model and are a household name with decades of profit to fall back on. Destiny is not. 

Star Wars is a powerful IP, but this game mechanic had not been tested and FFG had nothing to compare it to in order to gauge interest or sales. I can't really blame them for playing the long game. 

[rastoma 6]

1 hour ago, Engine25 said:

 

I'm new to card games, but unfortunately, isn't it pretty normal for a booster wave to be temporary and have limited stock?  Even if, admittedly, that limit was substantially higher than the product we've seen, a booster is, by design of a collectible game, made to be only temporarily available and once it's gone that's it in primary market. 

 

1

Yes I agree with that.  I'm upset not about the boosters but about the planned shortage of the starter sets. 

Edited February 8, 2017 by rastoma

[rastoma 6]

3 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:

Star Wars is a powerful IP, but this game mechanic had not been tested and FFG had nothing to compare it to in order to gauge interest or sales. I can't really blame them for playing the long game. 

 

That's a valid point.  But go back to the fact to how many boosters they already have planned.... they couldn't believe that their customer base would be that small as few starter sets that were made.  Maybe if they had just the next booster set and then play it by ear, I could see how that would make sense.  But not already be invested for the next year in at least 4 booster waves.

I know.. it's beating a dead horse.  What's done is done.  Nothing will change it and complaining about it doesn't help.  People just need to vent sometimes

[rastoma 6]

28 minutes ago, Hawkman2000 said:

People have mentioned wanting some type of communication from FFG, but I have to wonder what that is supposed to look like. Would people feel better if FFG just came out and said "hey, sorry there's no product." Would that really make people feel better? 

 

1

No, what they could say is when more starter sets will be shipping out.  They know.  A phone call to the manufacturer will tell them when and if production has started, when the boxes will be packed and shipped out.  They know how long it takes for the boat to get here (though I would guess DHL or some other large shipping company is handling the logistics via air), but in either method, they know how long it takes.  Then they can say with a week or two time frame when product will be back in stock if indeed the starter sets are going to be made again.

That is what would make people feel better.

But instead they delete threads being started complaining about the lack of communication.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by rastoma

[Hawkman2000 352]

18 minutes ago, rastoma said:

That's a valid point.  But go back to the fact to how many boosters they already have planned.... they couldn't believe that their customer base would be that small as few starter sets that were made.  Maybe if they had just the next booster set and then play it by ear, I could see how that would make sense.  But not already be invested for the next year in at least 4 booster waves.

I know.. it's beating a dead horse.  What's done is done.  Nothing will change it and complaining about it doesn't help.  People just need to vent sometimes

But you're assuming the customer base was small and that not a lot of product was bought. I think the exact opposite has occurred - FFG did go big on product and it's just getting bought up super fast. 

Look at other FFG games that get bought up all the time, but don't have a visual fan base playing the game at the LGS every night. There's tons of secret fans and I think the same is true here. It's not like the only people buying the game are on this board. FFG could have made millions of units and there could be bajillions of players and how would we ever know? 

[ScottieATF 2,867]

Where are you drawing this idea that only a few people have been able to get ahold of product?  It's accurate to say that some people have not been able to find product  but Destiny tournaments are already out pulling anything short of a Regional for FFG games, sometimes on week nights.  The FB groups for this game have literally added thousands in the past 3-4 weeks.  This idea that only a few people have gotten hold of this game is a figment of your imagination.

Having sets designed well ahead of time is exactly what every gaming company does for their games that entail regular expansion.

How does FFG benefit from creating a product shortage?  Increasing demand is pointless if you can't fill it from FFGs standpoint.  They don't make more money if a box gets marked up by a retailer to double MSRP. So why would they knowingly make less product then they'd reasonably believe they'd sell?  

Yes a 23 year old company with a consistent reputation for under producing initial offerings and then playing catch up when they catch on. That's exactly what FFG is.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by ScottieATF