Shuffle before Mulligan?

[Zephaus 150]

On Page 13 of the Rules Reference, it says that during setup:

 

4. Each player shuffles any number of cards from their hand back into their deck, and then redraws until they have 5 cards in hand.

 

 

Rules as Written, it specifically requires you to shuffle the discarded cards back in, and then redraw, which means there's a chance you'll get back the same cards you discarded.

 

How have you all been playing it? 

 

I would normally assume it was intentional, but my experience with FFG in X-Wing is that sometimes their RAW don't always capture their intent. And this seems kind of counter-intuitive. Normally I would expect one to draw back up to 5, then shuffle the discarded cards in?

[Stone37 3,353]

No, you're reading the rule right.  The cards you wish to mulligan are shuffled back into the deck and then you redraw up to 5.  My group house rules that you shuffle the discarded cards back into the deck AFTER you draw back up to 5.  The point is to get different cards!  We realize this isn't the legal way of performing a mulligan, it's a rule both players in my group agree on before hand to enhance the fun of the overall game.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Stone37

[john_nld 34]

I have had 2 instances where i got the exact same hand back

[isthar 28]

Hey, they wrote the rules the way they did and this is a competitive game... so get used to playing it right ! 

 

For reference:

 

in LOTR LCG you put the cards back, and shuffle so you can get them back it's a coop game so you can play how you want

in Arkham LCG the rules are "set aside what you don't want, draw new cards, then shuffle the set aside back". I know that's what you want, but given the competitive nature of SW Destiny, I urge that we all learn:

 

you shuffle them in

you draw

 

too bad if you get the same crap back!

[Stone37 3,353]

Hey, they wrote the rules the way they did and this is a competitive game... so get used to playing it right ! 

Yes and no.  If you plan to play this game in official tournaments, then yes you need to understand the official rules.  For casual players (my wife and most of my friends will NEVER play this game outside of our gatherings) FUN is more important than official.  Know that you are changing the game, but if that change makes it more fun for your group... go for it!

[Aaron Foss 500]

Yes this is intentional, and yes, that is how I've been playing. Most (if not all) games I've played with any kind of mulligan rule do it the same way.

 

Being able to keep what you want and mulligan back up to the same number of cards as normal is staggeringly generous.

[BigBadassBurrito 0]

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

[FSD 865]

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

 

If that were the case, they may as well have just had you start with your choice of 5 cards in hand and then shuffle your remaining 25 cards.

 

On a related topic: what is the overall accepted etiquette for post-mulligan shuffle?  Should you allow your opponent to cut your deck again before you draw back up to 5?

Edited December 20, 2016 by FSD

[Hawkman2000 352]

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

 

If that were the case, they may as well have just had you start with your choice of 5 cards in hand and then shuffle your remaining 25 cards.

 

On a related topic: what is the overall accepted etiquette for post-mulligan shuffle?  Should you allow your opponent to cut your deck again before you draw back up to 5?

Just like with any other kind of "people touching each other's stuff", I wouldn't necessarily want my opponent to cut or otherwise manipulate my deck. They can certainly have me reshuffle if they think the initial shuffle was off or something.

[netherspirit1982 220]

 

 

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

 

If that were the case, they may as well have just had you start with your choice of 5 cards in hand and then shuffle your remaining 25 cards.

 

On a related topic: what is the overall accepted etiquette for post-mulligan shuffle?  Should you allow your opponent to cut your deck again before you draw back up to 5?

Just like with any other kind of "people touching each other's stuff", I wouldn't necessarily want my opponent to cut or otherwise manipulate my deck. They can certainly have me reshuffle if they think the initial shuffle was off or something.

 

 

You may not want it or like it, but in a competitive card game, it's standard practice that any time you shuffle your deck you should present it to your opponent to at least cut it, and they'd have the option to shuffle it.

Edited December 20, 2016 by netherspirit

[shock 5]

 

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

 

If that were the case, they may as well have just had you start with your choice of 5 cards in hand and then shuffle your remaining 25 cards.

 

On a related topic: what is the overall accepted etiquette for post-mulligan shuffle?  Should you allow your opponent to cut your deck again before you draw back up to 5?

 

As in any card game after shuffling an opponent is allowed to further randomize a deck  before the order impacts the game (like drawing back up to 5 cards). 

As for not allowing your opponent to not touch your deck because your afraid of them well that's not going to fly in a competitive event

[executor 658]

 

 

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

 

If that were the case, they may as well have just had you start with your choice of 5 cards in hand and then shuffle your remaining 25 cards.

 

On a related topic: what is the overall accepted etiquette for post-mulligan shuffle?  Should you allow your opponent to cut your deck again before you draw back up to 5?

 

As in any card game after shuffling an opponent is allowed to further randomize a deck  before the order impacts the game (like drawing back up to 5 cards). 

As for not allowing your opponent to not touch your deck because your afraid of them well that's not going to fly in a competitive event

 

 

it's a double edged sword on that one.. i've never been a fan of having my opponent shuffle my deck.  I've watched an opponent shuffle my deck before (sideways) where he could clearly see cards in the deck (giving him an advantage of prior knowledge)

as for cuts, it should always be presented,  deck cuts prevent those that have the rare talent of sleight of hand to stack their decks in a way that's favorable to them, where as cutting a deck; even cutting it 4, 5 or 6 times and moving cards around is perfectly fine as long as the cards continue to face the table and never have a chance to see what the deck contains

[Mace Windu 1,173]

 

 

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

 

If that were the case, they may as well have just had you start with your choice of 5 cards in hand and then shuffle your remaining 25 cards.

 

On a related topic: what is the overall accepted etiquette for post-mulligan shuffle?  Should you allow your opponent to cut your deck again before you draw back up to 5?

Just like with any other kind of "people touching each other's stuff", I wouldn't necessarily want my opponent to cut or otherwise manipulate my deck. They can certainly have me reshuffle if they think the initial shuffle was off or something.

 

 

I'm guessing you have not played any other high level card game before? Most high level events for other games actually stipulate in the rules that your opponent is obliged to shuffle your deck after you have done so.

 

As much as I get people don’t like their opponents touching their stuff this is typically 1 of those times you have to accept it (or not play high level events if it affects you so much)

[Hawkman2000 352]

It's just like the other thread on dice re-rolling - I would just prefer not to have the responsibility of interacting with my opponents material. I don't want to chip their dice, crack their card sleeves, etc. High level tournie or not.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

It's just like the other thread on dice re-rolling - I would just prefer not to have the responsibility of interacting with my opponents material. I don't want to chip their dice, crack their card sleeves, etc. High level tournie or not.

The point you are missing is that there is no reason to roll your opponents dice for them, where as there is a very compelling reason to cut or preferably shuffle your opponents decks.

[Hawkman2000 352]

It's just like the other thread on dice re-rolling - I would just prefer not to have the responsibility of interacting with my opponents material. I don't want to chip their dice, crack their card sleeves, etc. High level tournie or not.

The point you are missing is that there is no reason to roll your opponents dice for them, where as there is a very compelling reason to cut or preferably shuffle your opponents decks.

I'm referring to the other thread where it was asked who rolls their opponents dice in a reroll scenario.

Magic or not, this is a totally separate game and previous rules don't apply just yet.

[ScottieATF 2,867]

I'm aware of the other thread and was highlighting the difference in situation attempting to demonstrate that your reasoning wouldn't apply in that circumstance.

And while this is not MtG, presenting your deck to be cut isn't just an MtG thing but an every card game thing. Including FFG.

[Amanal 2,557]

Woe be the person who ripple shuffles an opponents deck without asking....

[WonderWAAAGH 7,153]

Woe be the person who ripple shuffles an opponents deck without asking....

That's not necessarily any worse than side shuffling. Have you used UltraPros? They fall apart just by looking at them.

[Hawkman2000 352]

I'm aware of the other thread and was highlighting the difference in situation attempting to demonstrate that your reasoning wouldn't apply in that circumstance.

And while this is not MtG, presenting your deck to be cut isn't just an MtG thing but an every card game thing. Including FFG.

Every card game? See, now I can't even take you seriously at all.

[executor 658]

 

I'm aware of the other thread and was highlighting the difference in situation attempting to demonstrate that your reasoning wouldn't apply in that circumstance.

And while this is not MtG, presenting your deck to be cut isn't just an MtG thing but an every card game thing. Including FFG.

Every card game? See, now I can't even take you seriously at all.

 

 

he's right, any competitive card game your opponent has the right to shuffle your cards.  Most people just opt for cutting the deck but in the competitive environment, especially when there is large prizes on the line, some people find ways to cheat the system to have better chances at winning, so i don't blame anyone that wants to shuffle an opponents deck before the match begins

Edited December 21, 2016 by executor

[shaggscoob 7]

 

I'm aware of the other thread and was highlighting the difference in situation attempting to demonstrate that your reasoning wouldn't apply in that circumstance.

And while this is not MtG, presenting your deck to be cut isn't just an MtG thing but an every card game thing. Including FFG.

Every card game? See, now I can't even take you seriously at all.

 

 

 

Yes, every card game that has a competitive scene.  Seriously, I've played probably 15 different CCG, TCG, or LCG games and every single one of them required a cut by the opponent after shuffle in high level tournaments.

[Hujoe Bigs 2,071]

Even X-wing you are to give your opponent your damage deck to cut before a tournament round begins.

[zazoo 21]

 

 

 

Guys just to be sure. The pregame mulligan can be performed one time only right? Because it seems that someone think that you can do as many times as you can

 

If that were the case, they may as well have just had you start with your choice of 5 cards in hand and then shuffle your remaining 25 cards.

 

On a related topic: what is the overall accepted etiquette for post-mulligan shuffle?  Should you allow your opponent to cut your deck again before you draw back up to 5?

Just like with any other kind of "people touching each other's stuff", I wouldn't necessarily want my opponent to cut or otherwise manipulate my deck. They can certainly have me reshuffle if they think the initial shuffle was off or something.

 

 

You may not want it or like it, but in a competitive card game, it's standard practice that any time you shuffle your deck you should present it to your opponent to at least cut it, and they'd have the option to shuffle it.

 

Cut sure no problem, shuffle not going to happen.

I will not allow others to shuffle because not everyone treats cards the same as I do and I am not going to give them the opportunity to damage them.

 

And when I was playing MTG back in the day, allowing your opponent to shuffle was a courtesy not a requirement.

[drunkensith 104]

its been a requirement since I started playing in late 90's. I take it you only played localy.