Using Guardian if there's a resource cost?

[BigCookBen 0]

Hi, 

 

How have people been using guardian if the opposing players die that you wish to take damage from has a resource cost attached? Does this still need to be paid? 

 

CHeers

[Ajones47 170]

To my understanding, the Guardian Keyword isn't asking you to *resolve* the die and deal its damage to you (which would mean paying the resource cost, or applying the rules of a modifier) but instead it's asking you to cancel the die and deal damage equal to the cancelled die to your character. Cancel is a form of removing the die, which means that you don't need to pay any costs or follow any rules associated with its resolution.

 

In lamens: you don't pay costs and you ignore the blue +, and deal the damage as if it were a normal die.

[logspga 0]

The rules reference explanation of Guardian does not contain 'resolve', but the short explanation on a Rebel Trooper does have 'resolve', which would lead me to say that you can force your opponent to spend the resource.

[doctormungmung 49]

For other FFG games, they specifically state in the rules that "reminder text" (the text for keyword effects like guardian that is printed on cards) isn't actually rules text, and that only what is in the rulebook is official.  I'm lazy and haven't checked to see if that's the case for Destiny, but I'm going to assume it is.

[Tvayumat 3,637]

The rules reference explanation of Guardian does not contain 'resolve', but the short explanation on a Rebel Trooper does have 'resolve', which would lead me to say that you can force your opponent to spend the resource.

You'd be wrong.

The RRG is love, the RRG is life, the RRG clearly defines Guardian, and it doesn't involve the word "resolve".

Any reference text outside of the RRG that *does* is a misprint/oversight, and overruled by the RRG, always. Sort of like the reference card that incorrectly describes the "Focus" result.

[Stone37 3,353]

 

The rules reference explanation of Guardian does not contain 'resolve', but the short explanation on a Rebel Trooper does have 'resolve', which would lead me to say that you can force your opponent to spend the resource.

You'd be wrong.

The RRG is love, the RRG is life, the RRG clearly defines Guardian, and it doesn't involve the word "resolve".

Any reference text outside of the RRG that *does* is a misprint/oversight, and overruled by the RRG, always. Sort of like the reference card that incorrectly describes the "Focus" result.

 

Right on all counts (but Focus.  While overly simple, the reference card is correct.  YOU are ALWAYS the player)!  The RRG is well written and contains the answers.  Remember, don't ADD language to it or "feel" what rules should be.  Many gamers (including me) make the mistake of thinking other game's terminology and rules carry over into this game.  NEVER SO!  Unlearn what you have learned you must.

[doctormungmung 49]

The rules reference explanation of Guardian does not contain 'resolve', but the short explanation on a Rebel Trooper does have 'resolve', which would lead me to say that you can force your opponent to spend the resource.

 

Since the game is officially out I started sending rules querries to FFG.  I reworded what you stated above and got the following response:

 

"The rules reference is correct. The reminder text in parenthetical should not be taken as the full rule. It is there just to help people remember what the keyword does, but the keyword is more accurately defined in the rules, which were too long to print on the card.

 

May the force be with you,

--

Lukas Litzsinger

Game Designer

Fantasy Flight Games

llitzsinger@fantasyflightgames.com"

 

Hopefully an official definition of reminder text shows up in the rules reference.

[BrobaFett 4,209]

Can you post the exact question you asked?

[Stone37 3,353]

Here is what matters, as the RRG is the final say:

 

GUARDIAN

Before a character with Guardian activates, its owner

may remove one die showing damage (Ranged or Melee) from

their opponent’s dice pool to deal damage equal to

the value showing on the die removed to the activating

Guardian character. (RRG, page 17)

Edited December 1, 2016 by Stone37

[DailyRich 3,346]

Could you use Guardian to remove a modifier die?  You're not resolving it, so the rule against resolving modifiers on their own wouldn't apply.  And the rules reference does refer to the number on a modifier as a value:

 

 

Some dice have one or more blue sides with a plus sign (+) before the value.

 

 

(Emphasis mine)

 

Granted, I doubt there'd be many situations where you'd want to remove a modifier before an actual damage die (maybe if it was the only die left and you wanted to prevent a re-roll), so it may be a moot point.

Edited December 30, 2016 by DailyRich

[netherspirit1982 220]

Yes, you can remove modifier dice. Guardian removes a die, so guardian can be used on modifier dice.

[Snake3y3s 0]

Ok... so does this mean no one pays the cost of the die (if any)??

also, i dont think you can resolve/remove a dice showing a "+". The card ruling says

"...may remove one die showing damage (Ranged or Melee) from their opponent’s dice pool..."

 

This reads to me as DAMAGE not MODIFIER or MODIFIED DAMAGE.

[Willy Jarque 230]

Damage is the symbol. Not the +, not the value, not the cost. Just the symbol. If a damage symbol is showing, you can use Guardian, no matter what else is showing

Edit: this applies to removing dice, of course. When you are told to resolve a die, you have to follow all rules and restrictions

Edited January 2, 2017 by Willy Jarque

[Spector1331 55]

As people have stated, you can indeed guardian a modifier side (it is the correct play at times). Modifier sides show damage. That is the only criteria for guardian. You can also guardian a pay a resource for damage side as again you are not resolving it, you are removing the die and taking damage equal to the numerical value shown in the face.

[rowdyoctopus 1,412]

Ok... so does this mean no one pays the cost of the die (if any)??

also, i dont think you can resolve/remove a dice showing a "+". The card ruling says

"...may remove one die showing damage (Ranged or Melee) from their opponent’s dice pool..."

 

This reads to me as DAMAGE not MODIFIER or MODIFIED DAMAGE.

Resolve and remove are two very different things. To resolve a die is to use it and gain the benefit of what is showing on its side. To remove a die is to take it out of the pool without gaining anything from it. Generally this has a cost that falls on the player forcing the die to be removed. In the case of Guardian, this cost is that the Guardian character takes damage equal to the value.