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Babaganoosh

Scavenger Crane not realistic - is that a problem for anyone else?

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Obviously it's not that they are making new munitions on the fly, that would be stupid.....

 

Scum are notoriously bad at paying the bills, so obviously Jabba has put them on a meter. They can't get any more missiles until the meter is fed... the Scavenger Crane just magnetises in all the enemies loose change.

A for effort

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Easy thought switch to ease your mind:

You have the crane equipped to your ship. You've already scavenged the part before the fight. You just can't access it until you use up the other one you have and it takes times for your "reload" to happen. The game designers just chose a cool and likely trigger to happen.

 

Nice try; you're thinking of the Spare Parts upgrade card coming wave 11

One is an illicit. One a mod. I can dig it.

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I'm not arguing that TIE intereptor model with TIE bomber stats is a good or justifiable idea; I'm saying that it makes about as much sense as salvaging a Proton Torpedo from the wreck of a TIE fighter.  Do you disagree?

As a TIE Fighter cannot have Proton Torpedoes, I would be calling a TO over straight away. But, how much time is a turn? What is the distance of the playing area? How much time does a crane take to salvage such munitions? It's abstract ideas that we can't answer that make arguments against realism and coherency moot.

 

 

 

swx61-scavenger-crane.png

 

I'd be less irked about this card if it worked like you think it does; my read on this card is that the ship that is destroyed does not need to have any upgrade cards equipped.  You simply flip over a discarded upgrade card that you had equipped, and roll the die to see if you discard.  

 

So if you had this card on a Kihraxz, and you had earlier shot a concussion missile, then when a ship is destroyed at R1-2 of you, you flip your missile card back up.  No need for the other ship to have any particular upgrade, or any upgrades at all.  According to my read, it works the way I detailed earlier with the torpedo and the TIE.

Edited by Babaganoosh

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I see this as a minor boost for scum missile carriers, that can't equip extra munitions because they lack a torp slot.
 
Does it make sense to fish around in the debris of a ship in the middle of battle, looking for it's of tech that can rearm a missile? No.
 
Is it thematic to have crazy stuff like this going on in star wars? Absolutely.

Have you seen this weeks Rebels, the Iron Squadron yet?

Astromechs and Cargo bombs make a wonderful combination.

Edited by Radarman5

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What are you guys talking about? The discarded weapon has to be on the ship that's using the Scavenger Crane.

 

edit: babbaganoush beat me to it.

I understand completely how the upgrade works, I was trying to introduce some brevity. You are thinking too hard and taking this upgrade too literal. It jury rigs explosive crap out of blown up ships. Be thankful that it can't be used on debris fields. It could be more than just a crane, it might have an explosive matter converter attached, who knows.

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@babaganoosh I would argue IG using glitterstim is at least as much of a fluff fail already in game as scavenger crane.

 

Personally it doesn't bother me a ton.  As other people have said, I'm willing to overlook it the fluff fail if it has a cool gameplay mechanic and you can at least "pretend" there's some way it could work (*clearly* you're salvaging stuff out of the wreck to fix or replace...whatever).  Not a great "argument" perhaps, but at least it can pretend.  Your example of swapping the bomber and interceptor stats has no gameplay reason to swap them and no "pretend" reason for fluff that explains it.  But I can understand why it WOULD bother some people.  

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To the OP: Yes, it does bug me. Pretty much all of the other weird stuff I can find ways to rationalize (eg. blocking equals two ships being too close, possibly on top of each other, and losing attention; stress on red maneuvers equaling structural stress on the ship and acceleration forces on the pilot, etc).1

To this day, the one upgrade (well, two with black market) that I can't reconcile in my head-canon had been the slicer tools. Not the part that it causes damage to a stressed ship, but the part that, by causing damage, it CLEARS stress. I mean... So I'm under pressure from making too many hard maneuvers, an enemy remotely interferes with my ship, damaging it, and suddenly I'm all relaxed and cool again? wtf?

 

So, yea, back to the OP, two things bug me about this upgrade: first being the "transformation" of debris into a fully-functional upgrade/munition to your ship, and second the time frame it takes place in: given each turn in X Wing is meant to represent a couple seconds only, how the hell does the debris get picked up by the arm AND transformed AND installed within that timeframe? The range thing I can chalk up to debris being ejected towards you, but the instant transmutation is too much for me.

 

So, yea, I'd use the upgrade, and I think it fits the gameplay somewhat, but it does makes me uncomfortable. Good for you if you don't care, but different people have different opinions and sensibilities, and I personally believe the designers could/should have spent some more time in the drawing board to find a way to introduce a similar mechanic, but with an infinitely less ridiculous premise.

 

*edit* here's an idea: why not make it a salvage beam rather than an arm, and make it so it creates a specific munition?

 

 

"Debris shot", missile, whatever stats, whatever cost.

Each time a ship explodes within range, if you have an empty missile slot, you can add one of these to your ship.

Boom, done.

Edited by takfar

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

Theeeere it is. Was wondering how on earth Fickle's answer to every thematic issue in the game got pushed to page 2, but alas, there it is. Was worrying I would have to post this in his behalf.

 

 

But yes. Gameplay > Fluff. There is no other reason that it works this way other than the fact that they wanted this as a gameplay mechanic, and naming it this was as close as they were reasonably going to get to making it "thematic".

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For that matter, im curious what the fluff for munitions failsafe is. "My missile missed you so it found its way back to me and slotted into its tube for me to try again"? At least extra munitions just sacrifices a launcher to give you more space for ammo on ofhers.

What about comm relay? Whats the fluff for that keeping an evade roken around? And peventing you from getting more?

Manaroo'/ a pretty big fail too. You could argue its to reflect her mindlink....if they hadnt given us an attani mindlink Card.

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For that matter, im curious what the fluff for munitions failsafe is. "My missile missed you so it found its way back to me and slotted into its tube for me to try again"? At least extra munitions just sacrifices a launcher to give you more space for ammo on ofhers.

What about comm relay? Whats the fluff for that keeping an evade roken around? And peventing you from getting more?

Manaroo'/ a pretty big fail too. You could argue its to reflect her mindlink....if they hadnt given us an attani mindlink Card.

Munitions Failsafe's fluff is that you don't fire the munition at all. It withholds you from firing the munition because it knows it will not hit.

 

Comm Relay I think is supposed to be like your ship has a system to inform you of shots coming your way before they get there, allowing you to take evasive action earlier.

 

Manaroo is stupid. The end.

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For that matter, im curious what the fluff for munitions failsafe is. "My missile missed you so it found its way back to me and slotted into its tube for me to try again"? At least extra munitions just sacrifices a launcher to give you more space for ammo on ofhers.

What about comm relay? Whats the fluff for that keeping an evade roken around? And peventing you from getting more?

Manaroo'/ a pretty big fail too. You could argue its to reflect her mindlink....if they hadnt given us an attani mindlink Card.

Munitions Failsafe's fluff is that you don't fire the munition at all. It withholds you from firing the munition because it knows it will not hit.

 

Comm Relay I think is supposed to be like your ship has a system to inform you of shots coming your way before they get there, allowing you to take evasive action earlier.

 

Manaroo is stupid. The end.

I MIGHT be able to buy that for failsafe. But its iffy. Not any worse than salvager crane Ill give it.

Comm relay doesnt really work imo.

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

Theeeere it is. Was wondering how on earth Fickle's answer to every thematic issue in the game got pushed to page 2, but alas, there it is. Was worrying I would have to post this in his behalf.

 

 

But yes. Gameplay > Fluff. There is no other reason that it works this way other than the fact that they wanted this as a gameplay mechanic, and naming it this was as close as they were reasonably going to get to making it "thematic".

 

 

Don't worry I made that argument on page 1. Figured Fickle was busy...

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At least I feel vindicated about the guy who told me ship boarding was a dumb idea because it would make no sense in a game of dogfighting. If I can scrounge a torpedo off a ship without torps, then realism be-damned, a boarding assault game mechanic is a cool idea.

That's not vindication, and boarding makes even less sense then the scavenging arm. So no, I stand by my telling you it is a terrible idea. The arm could easily just need to grab a reactor core from the debri and have the shell of the munitions ready. We don't know the actual size or type of fuel shells needed for munitions vs engines in this universe. Even then it still makes twenty times more sense then trying to person a boarding action on ships this small. When even the one boarding craft you referenced would shred the entirety of the ghost trying to open into its hull.

Edit: also to explain the distance, it could easily be equipped with a tractor beam on the end, being controlled by a AI on board the ship.

Edited by Hujoe Bigs

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Do you need to have the upgrade slot to start with?  Or can you grab a turret and throw it on a non turret ship?

 

You aren't stealing an upgrade from the ship that was destroyed.  You're just getting back one of your OWN upgrades that's already been discarded (such as a spent torpedo)

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Do you need to have the upgrade slot to start with?  Or can you grab a turret and throw it on a non turret ship?

 

You aren't stealing an upgrade from the ship that was destroyed.  You're just getting back one of your OWN upgrades that's already been discarded (such as a spent torpedo)

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