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Babaganoosh

Scavenger Crane not realistic - is that a problem for anyone else?

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

 

 

How would you react, in terms of fluff, to a TIE Interceptor with the dial of a HWK-290?

 

 

What's the gameplay justification for it?

 

 

None; I'm just suggesting an obvious example of a game mechanic departing from the fluff of the star wars universe to prove my point, which is why I specify that I'm looking for a reaction in terms of the fluff.  So, ignore how useless in terms of the metagame an interceptor with a HWK dial would be, but think about how you would feel about a ship that was depicted as nimble in the movies and literature flying like a wet mop.  The inconsistency with the Star wars universe's sense of realism is the problem.  

Edited by Babaganoosh

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And how does Boba Fett make a player PTL? Break the enemies hands? How does he steal the Millenium Falcon title? Shred the vehicle's registration papers? 

 

Another pretty good example.  Hard to justify that.  I guess you could say that Boba Fett shakes up the enemy pilot so bad that they can't concentrate or something?  Like I said, hard to justify.  Not quite as bad as fabricating an APT from TIE fighter junk instantly, but pretty bad.

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

 

 

How would you react, in terms of fluff, to a TIE Interceptor with the dial of a HWK-290?

 

 

What's the gameplay justification for it?

 

 

None; I'm just suggesting an obvious example of a game mechanic departing from the fluff of the star wars universe to prove my point.

 

 

That's a horrible example to refute "gameplay > fluff". If there's no gameplay serving reason to do it you wouldn't do it.

 

The Scavenger Crane on the other hand is 

 

Dev 1: "We want something that triggers when a ship dies that lets a ship bring its discarded upgrades back into play".

Dev 2: "Well we've got a scavenger and tug themed ship coming out, maybe something that tie in with that?"

Dev 1: "So like some sort of scavenger arm or something?"

Dev 2: "Yeah, that sounds cool."

Dev 1: "That's kind of unrealistic though isn't it?"

Dev 2: "Do you have a better idea for the mechanic that you want to include."

Dev 1: "Nope. Scavenger Crane it is."

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

 

 

How would you react, in terms of fluff, to a TIE Interceptor with the dial of a HWK-290?

 

 

What's the gameplay justification for it?

 

 

None; I'm just suggesting an obvious example of a game mechanic departing from the fluff of the star wars universe to prove my point.

 

 

That's a horrible example to refute "gameplay > fluff". If there's no gameplay serving reason to do it you wouldn't do it.

 

The Scavenger Crane on the other hand is 

 

Dev 1: "We want something that triggers when a ship dies that lets a ship bring its discarded upgrades back into play".

Dev 2: "Well we've got a scavenger and tug themed ship coming out, maybe something that tie in with that?"

Dev 1: "So like some sort of scavenger arm or something?"

Dev 2: "Yeah, that sounds cool."

Dev 1: "That's kind of unrealistic though isn't it?"

Dev 2: "Do you have a better idea for the mechanic that you want to include."

Dev 1: "Nope. Scavenger Crane it is."

 

 

I'd say that game balance is way more important than a strict adherence to fluff, but unrealistic stuff like this is first of all unnecessary, and second moves the game further away from a realistic reflection of a star wars battle.  Why even have scavenger crane in the game?  No one had a gun the Dev 1 & 2's heads to make them put scav crane in the game.  There's other stuff they could have done.  

 

The theme of this game is hugely important to its survival.  Yeah, scavenger crane is not a big deal in the whole scope of the game.  People are not going to quit X-wing, least of all me, over scavenger crane.  But make no mistake - if this game did not have a Star Wars skin - if we had the exact same mechanics but had some sort of generic space fantasy story underwriting the game, then far fewer people would be playing it.  Keeping the game faithful to the star wars universe is in everyone's benefit, and the devs have shown in hundreds of card designs that you can do that and keep gameplay fresh and interesting. And more or less balanced (I guess?)

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Really? complaining about Starwars stuff not being realistic?

Starwars is probably the WORST scifi flick in terms of realistic behavior. Their ships all move with only rear facing thrustors in SPACE, which is impossible without thrustors in all directions. Sound works in space...waaat? Freighters outmaneuver fighters...huh?

 

Nothing in starwars is realistic. Its a space-bound fantasy flick. Something doesnt make sense? Magic

Same old sh... You're confusing realism with coherence.

Old SW (I mean, first 3 movies and pre-prelogy EU) was quite OK. 

No, it really wasn't. Parts of it were okay, and parts were a mess, just like how it is now. 

 

The Crystal Star came out in 1994. Jedi Prince started in 1992. Good luck calling that garbage coherent. 

 

Ouch, you bring back hurtful memories^^. I was more relating to Zahn's work or X-wing series.

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Just think of the Scavenger Crane as having a really awesome magnet/tractor beam with a remote activation and syncing setup for your ship, alongside a power source for whatever you just picked up. Why?

It's awesome! It doesn't need to make sense because ultimately, it's a cool idea for a game mechanic. I mean a lot of things in gaming have made me scratch my head over the realism of it all for a while. Take Halo's MA5 series of Combat Rifles, for instance.

 

Why do they have huge ass flashlights where a Grenade Launcher should CLEARLY be? Well the answer is simple: That'd be overpowered and totally unfun. So it gets a harmless flashlight instead! Something else can fill that grenade launcher role as its own individual weapon.

Same thing applies.

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One thing that I hate, grinds my gears, is when people apply realism to a fictional universe. Aliens are ok, giant space plants used as an execution device are ok. A whole bunch of other ideas that aren't in our reality, but a reclimation device is a step to far. I do not intended for this to be snarky, but this is a game, set in a made up universe. I am sorry if this doesn't gel with your idea of realism.

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Just think of the Scavenger Crane as having a really awesome magnet/tractor beam with a remote activation and syncing setup for your ship, alongside a power source for whatever you just picked up. Why?

It's awesome! It doesn't need to make sense because ultimately, it's a cool idea for a game mechanic. I mean a lot of things in gaming have made me scratch my head over the realism of it all for a while. Take Halo's MA5 series of Combat Rifles, for instance.

 

Why do they have huge ass flashlights where a Grenade Launcher should CLEARLY be? Well the answer is simple: That'd be overpowered and totally unfun. So it gets a harmless flashlight instead! Something else can fill that grenade launcher role as its own individual weapon.

Same thing applies.

 

To say nothing of a universe with FTL travel but we still use gunpowder-based assault rifles...

 

Anyway, I'm probably spoiled by FFG's good work so far of staying relatively faithful, as much as possible anyway, to the star wars universe's sense of realism.  

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Just think of the Scavenger Crane as having a really awesome magnet/tractor beam with a remote activation and syncing setup for your ship, alongside a power source for whatever you just picked up. Why?

It's awesome! It doesn't need to make sense because ultimately, it's a cool idea for a game mechanic. I mean a lot of things in gaming have made me scratch my head over the realism of it all for a while. Take Halo's MA5 series of Combat Rifles, for instance.

 

Why do they have huge ass flashlights where a Grenade Launcher should CLEARLY be? Well the answer is simple: That'd be overpowered and totally unfun. So it gets a harmless flashlight instead! Something else can fill that grenade launcher role as its own individual weapon.

Same thing applies.

My big problem is that it is an illicit upgrade.  I think it should have been a crew card called "McGuiver with Duct Tape."

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Just think of the Scavenger Crane as having a really awesome magnet/tractor beam with a remote activation and syncing setup for your ship, alongside a power source for whatever you just picked up. Why?

It's awesome! It doesn't need to make sense because ultimately, it's a cool idea for a game mechanic. I mean a lot of things in gaming have made me scratch my head over the realism of it all for a while. Take Halo's MA5 series of Combat Rifles, for instance.

 

Why do they have huge ass flashlights where a Grenade Launcher should CLEARLY be? Well the answer is simple: That'd be overpowered and totally unfun. So it gets a harmless flashlight instead! Something else can fill that grenade launcher role as its own individual weapon.

Same thing applies.

My big problem is that it is an illicit upgrade.  I think it should have been a crew card called "McGuiver with Duct Tape."

 

 

Hey, gameplay >>>>>> fluff!  Sounds good to me!

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Easy thought switch to ease your mind:

You have the crane equipped to your ship. You've already scavenged the part before the fight. You just can't access it until you use up the other one you have and it takes times for your "reload" to happen. The game designers just chose a cool and likely trigger to happen.

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One thing that I hate, grinds my gears, is when people apply realism to a fictional universe. Aliens are ok, giant space plants used as an execution device are ok. A whole bunch of other ideas that aren't in our reality, but a reclimation device is a step to far. I do not intended for this to be snarky, but this is a game, set in a made up universe. I am sorry if this doesn't gel with your idea of realism.

Coherence. Not realism. That's not the same thing. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

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Easy thought switch to ease your mind:

You have the crane equipped to your ship. You've already scavenged the part before the fight. You just can't access it until you use up the other one you have and it takes times for your "reload" to happen. The game designers just chose a cool and likely trigger to happen.

 

Nice try; you're thinking of the Spare Parts upgrade card coming wave 11

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This is a game where Kanan Jarrus and Ezra Bridger can share a ship with Rey.

A game where Darth Vader and Kylo Ren can hang out.

Leaving aside the obvious 'realism in star wars lololol' comment (because i think realism isn't your intented wording here), the fact that long dead characters can ride with ones who weren't even born when they died, means you need to suspend your disbelief pretty damned hard to begin with.

A space crane doesn't even measure on my 'wtf' scale of X-wing mechanics.

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

 

 

How would you react, in terms of fluff, to a TIE Interceptor with the dial of a HWK-290?

couldnt care less

Green dice would **** it harder than any dial could

 

 

Well if not, you, there would be plenty of others rioting in the streets.  No way that most people would meekly accept an Interceptor with a crap dial.

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

 

 

How would you react, in terms of fluff, to a TIE Interceptor with the dial of a HWK-290?

 

We have it already in game, it's called HWK-290, super fast and super nimble in lore, literally HWK-290 dial in game.

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This is a game where Kanan Jarrus and Ezra Bridger can share a ship with Rey.

A game where Darth Vader and Kylo Ren can hang out.

Leaving aside the obvious 'realism in star wars lololol' comment (because i think realism isn't your intented wording here), the fact that long dead characters can ride with ones who weren't even born when they died, means you need to suspend your disbelief pretty damned hard to begin with.

A space crane doesn't even measure on my 'wtf' scale of X-wing mechanics.

Interesting point; of course you can always play games with the attitude that you're playing alternate star wars history (What if Vader survived, etc. etc.).  This is more of a practical departure from the star wars sense or realism or coherence, or what have you.  Physically in the star wars universe this doesn't make sense.  

 

In terms of departing from the star wars narrative, or storyline, or what have you, we do that all the time and it' unavoidable.  This card was avoidable.

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One thing that I hate, grinds my gears, is when people apply realism to a fictional universe. Aliens are ok, giant space plants used as an execution device are ok. A whole bunch of other ideas that aren't in our reality, but a reclimation device is a step to far. I do not intended for this to be snarky, but this is a game, set in a made up universe. I am sorry if this doesn't gel with your idea of realism.

Coherence. Not realism. That's not the same thing. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

Point poorly made. This whole thread needs a JBR7 bad post.

My point still stands.

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

 

 

How would you react, in terms of fluff, to a TIE Interceptor with the dial of a HWK-290?

 

We have it already in game, it's called HWK-290, super fast and super nimble in lore, literally HWK-290 dial in game.

 

I was wondering if anyone would chime in on that.  Perhaps if the HWK-290 had been better known to people, things would have played out differently.  As it is, most people didn't have a firm sense of how the ships was supposed to have maneuvered, I think.  I wasn't around when it was released so I don't know if there was an outcry.

Edited by Babaganoosh

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So, the scavenger crane mechanic is very interesting in gameplay terms, but the card hits my realism funnybone in a bad way.  Consider me triggered, if you will.

 

So, are we to accept that a ship flying around in the middle of a dogfight could identify, acquire, and replace its own hardware with debris from destroyed ships?

 

Some sort of junk droid ship I could see doing that.

 

A Kihraxz flown by a random grunt? No.

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So just in case it wasnt already posted

Gameplay

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>>>>>

Fluff

 

 

How would you react, in terms of fluff, to a TIE Interceptor with the dial of a HWK-290?

couldnt care less

Green dice would **** it harder than any dial could

 

Well if not, you, there would be plenty of others rioting in the streets.  No way that most people would meekly accept an Interceptor with a crap dial.

right but if youre using that as a reason for my fluff > gameplay, youre missing the point entirely. This is more stupid thing made for no real reason > fluff

There is no reason to introduce a slow interceptor, esp when you already have other slow ships in the game

Slow interceptors wouldnt actually benefit gameplay at all

But it does let interesting new gameplay elements slide in regardless of how little sense they make when you stop to think about it

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