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Firespray-32

Why Is Scavenger Crane Discard?

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Er... I'm not sure what your complaint is here... even with 2 uses of your missile or bomb or whatever it's paid for itself. And 2 uses are guaranteed...

 

If it's balanced as a normal discard (like most illicits) why have a mechanic to randomly overpower it?

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Its the same sort of situation as Cloaking Device. Mercs, pirates, and general scum aren't exactly the best engineers in the galaxy; stuff breaks!

 

To get it to trigger anyway you still have to have a ship die at range 1-2. The darn thing may never trigger if you're at range 3+ when ships are dying... I wonder if it means we'll see more range 1-2 weapons and less of those that are range 2-3?

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Because it is characterful... If you don't like variance don't play scum, it's one of their characteristics. Stealth Device shot down, Cranes break.... that's life... The important thing is on average they are worth their points, maybe slightly more than their points to make up for the times they crap out on you.

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"Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well to tell you the truth in all this excitement I kinda lost track myself. But being this is a proton torpedo, the most powerful torpedo in the sector and would blow your cockpit clean off, you've gotta ask yourself one question: "Do I feel lucky?" Well, do ya, punk?

 

*Rolls a blank*

 

Karabast....

 

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It seems to me that the "design space" answer (beyond thematics) for the random discard is the strategic uncertainty that it causes. You can count on it triggering once (per upgrade) as long as you satisfy the trigger conditions. You cannot count on it triggering more than once because of the RNG. This in turn means that you cannot safely build a gameplan around multiple uses of the crane, like you could if it was unlimited or a fixed number of multiple uses. On the other hand, unlike a set one-and-done automatic discard, your opponent cannot count on the crane being exhausted on one use either, adding uncertainty on their side. This means that the RNG-discard has a unique role in game strategy.

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If you can't handle a bit of RNG flavor, I'm not sure that a game that uses dice is really what you need to be playing...

 

The attack mechanic is used constantly, causing it to average out over the course of the game. This card dies from one bad roll which lends itself to much higher variance. I don't see how the RNG is necessary or even beneficial.

 

Now I'm not even sure what you think a RNG is... dice are literally random number generators. Putting this as an option for the illicit slot is also dependent on one of the other relative slots being filled as well, so in fact, for it to be beneficial, it really occupies two slots (illicit and bomb, for example). You KNOW that a ship with this, if it's close to another ship when it pops, will have the chance to get it's one bomb back once, guaranteed. It might even get to get it back more times than that, depending on RNG. But all you can count on is once.

 

There are plenty of other game effects that rely on rolling one or more RNGs to determine if there is an effect generated without being able to counter them with additional RNGs (as your attack/defense averages theory seems to state), so this isn't exactly "new mechanics". See below, all of these do a thing without the other player being able to counter it with a roll of their own (palpatine excepted, obviously, and he can only affect some of them):

 

Asteroid: roll 1 red dice

Debris Field: Roll 1 red die

Cluster Mine: roll 2 red dice

Proximity Mine: roll 3 red dice

Ion Projector: roll 1 red die

Anti-Pursuit Lasers: roll 1 red die

R5-P8: Roll 1 red die

Saboteur: roll 1 red die

Black Market Slicer Tools: roll 1 red die

Cloaking Device: Roll 1 red die

 

Lando Calrissian: Roll 2 green dice

R5D8: Roll 1 green die

R5K6: Roll 1 green die

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Er... I'm not sure what your complaint is here... even with 2 uses of your missile or bomb or whatever it's paid for itself. And 2 uses are guaranteed...

 

If it's balanced as a normal discard (like most illicits) why have a mechanic to randomly overpower it?

 

 

When compared directly to Extra Munitions, Scavenger Crane as a discard would be a worse use of two points in nearly every situation that you would be choosing between the two. The need for a ship to be destroyed at range 1-2 needs to be offset by something. The benefit of scale that EM gets also needs to be offset to make Scavenger Crane a viable alternative. Allowing the card to possibly be used multiple times addresses these issues.  Not being guaranteed after the first use keeps it from being too good in some situations.     

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There is no such thing as "extreme agility tanking" when it cones to CD. There is no palp; no soontir. No thrusters even

If youre not attacking, youre not contributing enough unless youre palp or manny neithrr of whom can run with CD anyway

If whisper can roam around with 4 dice and evade and focus AFTER attacking, there is simply no excuse

Cloaking device would have been perfectly balanced with no random drawback

 

I dunno. The Scum HWKs - Torkil and Palob - can really mess with aces to an extent which probably justifies their cost even without attacking.

 

 

It seems to me that the "design space" answer (beyond thematics) for the random discard is the strategic uncertainty that it causes. You can count on it triggering once (per upgrade) as long as you satisfy the trigger conditions. You cannot count on it triggering more than once because of the RNG. This in turn means that you cannot safely build a gameplan around multiple uses of the crane, like you could if it was unlimited or a fixed number of multiple uses. On the other hand, unlike a set one-and-done automatic discard, your opponent cannot count on the crane being exhausted on one use either, adding uncertainty on their side. This means that the RNG-discard has a unique role in game strategy.

 

But most importantly, you can rely on getting that one use, because that trigger is actually pretty permissive.

 

Given that it doesn't (as I originally read it) need to be a ship you shot, or even an enemy, a pack of Z-95s can re-arm their missiles from one of their own number dying, or another friend or enemy ship nearby that they themselves are not attacking dying.

 

It is possible for the effect not to trigger during a game, but you can be reasonably confident of getting a single use out of the ability.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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I don't know if it's been said yet, replying after page 2. But the YT series can have access to illicits. Rey can do the same thing with counter measures, burning target locks and getting up to 3 Agi if in arc with Finn. Using 3PO and the evade title.... could become crazy dodgy in some circumstances.

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If a ship dies within range 1-2.....
 
I wonder if there might be some mileage with (new) Chewbacca and scavenger claw?
 

When another friendly ship at Range 1-3 is destroyed (but has not fled the battlefield), you may perform an attack.
After a ship at Range 1-2 is destroyed, you may choose a discarded Torpedo, Missile, Bomb, Cannon, Turret or Modification Upgrade card that was equipped to your ship and flip it faceup. Then roll 1 attack die. On a blank result, discard Scavenger Crane.

 

If I read this right (because the trigger is the same, so you decide the order you execute them in), you could react to a friendly ship being killed by firing a missile at someone, then immediately recovering the discarded missile upgrade.

 

Were it a homing missile (allowing you to retain your target lock), you could potentially do this a couple of times in a turn, as well as fire your actual PS5 attack.

 

 

It's still not as good as Chewie's original ability, but it potentially makes his current one less awful.

 

 

I suspect that re-equipping Rey's Countermeasures is a very nice use for the card. You are taking it instead of Glitterstim, though, so you're buying a turn of +1 agility at a cost of a turn of unlimited focus tokens. You pays your moneys and takes your choice.

Edited by Magnus Grendel

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If a ship dies within range 1-2.....

 

I wonder if there might be some mileage with (new) Chewbacca and scavenger claw?

 

When another friendly ship at Range 1-3 is destroyed (but has not fled the battlefield), you may perform an attack.
After a ship at Range 1-2 is destroyed, you may choose a discarded Torpedo, Missile, Bomb, Cannon, Turret or Modification Upgrade card that was equipped to your ship and flip it faceup. Then roll 1 attack die. On a blank result, discard Scavenger Crane.

 

If I read this right (because the trigger is the same, so you decide the order you execute them in), you could react to a friendly ship being killed by firing a missile at someone, then immediately recovering the discarded missile upgrade.

 

Were it a homing missile (allowing you to retain your target lock), you could potentially do this a couple of times in a turn, as well as fire your actual PS5 attack.

 

 

It's still not as good as Chewie's original ability, but it potentially makes his current one less awful.

 

 

I suspect that re-equipping Rey's Countermeasures is a very nice use for the card. You are taking it instead of Glitterstim, though, so you're buying a turn of +1 agility at a cost of a turn of unlimited focus tokens. You pays your moneys and takes your choice.

I suspect that they would rule that the non-attack thing has to happen before the attack thing, as it does for after defending/attacking triggers.

 

And all taking a crane on Chewie would do is encourage people further to Kill Chewie First.

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