Willange

Latari Elves Collaboration

124 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Taki said:

Will you guys be doing a full production of these rules, with downloads for printing cards?

Ideally, yes. Hopefully I'll have more time in the summer to work on this because then I'll try to create scenarios in the scenario builder. I'm decent with photo-editing software, so I'm sure I'll be able to make the templates and such. The issue I have is artwork for the lore and unit cards. I'd rather not use Magic: The Gathering or Warhammer art, but I suppose we'll just use what we can.

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1 minute ago, Budgernaut said:

Ideally, yes. Hopefully I'll have more time in the summer to work on this because then I'll try to create scenarios in the scenario builder. I'm decent with photo-editing software, so I'm sure I'll be able to make the templates and such. The issue I have is artwork for the lore and unit cards. I'd rather not use Magic: The Gathering or Warhammer art, but I suppose we'll just use what we can.

There are many sources of free art online, as well as folks on deviant art who would be willing to donate art for fan projects like this.  There's also reusing art from RuneAge and other FFG products that have iconic images of the latari, and if you can find it, disc wars art as well.

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I'm game to use whatever for art.  For my past projects I always just used google image search... it helps that I don't play anything Magic or Warhammer so the images aren't ruined for me as being from another game :D 

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I recently got a collection of Diskwars off of ebay and have been looking through the disks for ideas on units. Early on in the thread, people asked about dryads and it turns out those were were included in Diskwars. There are both elf-aligned ones and neutral ones. They could be a good candidate for an elite unit.

I also found Fairy Swarms, which I think could be very interesting additions. Again, they are neutral, so maybe they're good for the Latari Elves, maybe not. And they're kind of ugly-looking.

Within the Elves, though, I think I found our second legend unit: Elven Dragonfly Patrol. It's a HUGE disk with a lot of toughness. In Diskwars, it is a ranged unit. What do you all think of a flying-ranged legend unit? What could be cooler than elves riding a giant dragonfly and shooting arrows at their enemy from the sky?!

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Dragonfly patrol sounds pretty cool to me.  I couldn't find any images online though... could you message me one or post here?  Are there abilities in that game that we can work off of?

Dryads could be interesting too I think.  However it does bring up the question of what to do with the pegasus riders.  If they aren't a legend, then they would probably be elite, which might push dryads into some other role.  Do you have art/abilities you could share on them as well?

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57 minutes ago, Willange said:

Dragonfly patrol sounds pretty cool to me.  I couldn't find any images online though... could you message me one or post here?  Are there abilities in that game that we can work off of?

Dryads could be interesting too I think.  However it does bring up the question of what to do with the pegasus riders.  If they aren't a legend, then they would probably be elite, which might push dryads into some other role.  Do you have art/abilities you could share on them as well?

We could have 2 cavalry units: pegasi and lenox.

As for the dragonfly, I don't have any images of it. I just saw that it was one of the disks in the master list of Diskwars disks I downloaded from BGG. I'll see if I can get one from the BGG Diskwars page. Its ability is really interesting, but I'm not sure how well it translates to BattleLore or even whether we want to or not. A disk with the missile trait can make ranged attacks instead of moving. A ranged attack usually involves shooting 2 or 3 arrows. This one shoots 9! But there is a catch. It shoots 3 fewer arrows for each wound it has suffered, so at 1 wound it shoots 6 arrows, at 2 wounds it shoots 3 arrows, and at 3 wounds it is dead. Most disks only have 1 wound, so this is an extremely beefy unit, though it's toughness is about average at 4. The toughness and wound mechanic in Diskwars basically works like it does in Runewars: Miniatures Game. The speed on the Elven Dragonfly Patrol isn't even that great, which is hard for me to wrap my head around since dragonflies are super fast.

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Posted (edited)

That sounds pretty neat to me.  I'll try my hand an initial draft of bringing this kind of unit into Battlelore and we can iterate a few things:

Dragonfly Patrol:

3 Move

3 Attack

5 Life

Flying

Sky-born Volley - Instead of attacking, this unit may make a ranged attack at range 1-3 with attack dice equal to its current life.  This attack ignores line-of-sight requirements. (I figure, it's it in the air and ranged, so shouldn't it be able to fly up and shoot over stuff?)

 

I tried to balance this off the Roc Warrior more-or-less.  Not sure if this is the most fun way to build it, but this is sort of my "direct conversion" idea.  Other ideas?  I'll of course post others that come to mind.

Edited by Willange
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My biggest concern for the Dragonfly Patrol is that I don't want to completely out-class the Siege Golem.

The Dragonfly Patrol has Flying while the Siege Golem has Immovable 1. Both can be slightly defensive. However ...

The Siege Golem has Behemoth while the Dragonfly Patrol has Flying. So while the Dragonfly Patrol has extreme movement options, the Siege Golem has a lot of trouble moving, especially considering a speed of 1 instead of 3. 

The Siege Golem has a range of 2-6 instead of 1-3. I'm not sure what to think. The Siege Golem has great range, but not being able to attack at range-1 seems like it is already a fair trade for getting to shoot at ranges 5- and 6. I definitely agree that the Dragonfly Archers shouldn't shoot further than 3. Unless ... It just occurred to me that the disk in Diskwars has an attack value of 0, meaning that it doesn't deal damage against pinned (adjacent) opponents. Perhaps we make its arrows range 2-3. It's a narrow range, but with Flying and a movement of 3, it shouldn't have trouble setting up the shots, especially if it can ignore blocking terrain. Is that too much of a penalty?

Finally there's Barrage. The Siege Golem has 3 abilities while the Dragonfly Patrol only has 2. That seems okay because the Roc has 2 really good abilities. I think Flying is worth two abilities because of the combined defense and mobility. You can see this in the two dragons that also have Flying but cost 10 instead of 8 and have 3 abilities each. But I think being able to throw 5 dice is a fair trade for dealing extra damage to units adjacent to the target.

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Posted (edited)

I agree with the change to make it's special attack range 2-3.  To be clear I was also thinking this would shoot over terrain.  That's also my biggest gripe with the siege golem... I feel like that guy should be able to shoot over terrain.  It's so rare that you get the right combination of scenarios to where being able to shoot 6 is even possible let alone useful.  I feel like that would have been good for him even if it meant lowering his range to 5.

Anyway, back to the Dragonfly.  We could also make it a little spicier with a 3rd ability and make it cost 10 like the dragons... Do we have any good candidates for extra abilities that would make us go that route?  What if it had a lore-spender ability?  I can think of quite a few we could add, but they're sort of all over the place and many could just as easily be lore cards.  I'm fine to leave it at 8, but I just thought we should consider the possibility.

Edited by Willange
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So, I'd stick more to RWBG and RuneAge myself.  Latari archers should be the mainstay, and should be the unit that's repeated in both armies (like citadel guards, or blood harvesters).  Also taking a page from runewars BG I would go Cavalry heavy with the elves and also only 1 big bad not two (seems like their weakness honestly)  I like the dryad idea, but I'm not a fan of the spiders.  The dragonfly is a nice throwback to Discwars, but I think they've moved away from it conceptually for the Latari.

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@Taki I see what you're saying, but this distribution model for BattleLore is to have 1 legend unit per army pack. Our option is to use something from Diskwars or go with a randon new idea (like spiders).

As for archers, I think we do have a reliance on them with how we're building these two packs because the archer unit will be included in both army packs, unlike the Undead where there were archers in one pack but Reanimates in both packs.

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2 hours ago, Budgernaut said:

@Taki I see what you're saying, but this distribution model for BattleLore is to have 1 legend unit per army pack. Our option is to use something from Diskwars or go with a randon new idea (like spiders).

As for archers, I think we do have a reliance on them with how we're building these two packs because the archer unit will be included in both army packs, unlike the Undead where there were archers in one pack but Reanimates in both packs.

I didn't see/realize that you had done the two army lists, I just saw all the ideas for powers and units in the doc that was linked.

As to the Legend unit, I agree and I don't.  The latari are deviant in Runewars the board game in the same way, with only one big bad, and a higher midranged unit competency, as discussed here...

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2009/11/6/protectors-of-the-forest/

Maybe a unit like the banshee, like a large caster?  A dryad could serve there

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Well, yes and no.  They did only have one unit with a hexagonal base, but the pegasus rider was just as big and bad as the others.  It sacrificed the power of a hex base for higher initiative... I mean it was certainly stronger than basically every other rectangle unit in that game.  In the end, the actual classification of legend means very little in this game.  They have no inherent special rules... yes they are the only ones that cost 8/10 points, but nothing in the rules REQUIRES it to be that way.  We could make pegasus a cavalry unit but give it more than 3 health and cost 8 points.  In fact, that would let them benefit from cavalry charge so maybe that would be good.  I honestly think if Battlelore had gotten more expansions and support, then this is exactly the kind of thing we would have eventually seen... 

Back to the matter at hand though, I'm open to swapping the Dragonfly out for something else, but I do think it's a pretty cool unit.  If this faction didn't get 2 legends, then will it get 3 cavalry instead?  I guess to me the classification just doesn't matter as much as the abilities and balance of the unit, so I was content to just follow the conventions observed in the other BL2E xpacs.  By the same token, I'm just as willing to defy that convention.

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1 minute ago, Willange said:

Well, yes and no.  They did only have one unit with a hexagonal base, but the pegasus rider was just as big and bad as the others.  It sacrificed the power of a hex base for higher initiative... I mean it was certainly stronger than basically every other rectangle unit in that game.  In the end, the actual classification of legend means very little in this game.  They have no inherent special rules... yes they are the only ones that cost 8/10 points, but nothing in the rules REQUIRES it to be that way.  We could make pegasus a cavalry unit but give it more than 3 health and cost 8 points.  In fact, that would let them benefit from cavalry charge so maybe that would be good.  I honestly think if Battlelore had gotten more expansions and support, then this is exactly the kind of thing we would have eventually seen... 

Back to the matter at hand though, I'm open to swapping the Dragonfly out for something else, but I do think it's a pretty cool unit.  If this faction didn't get 2 legends, then will it get 3 cavalry instead?  I guess to me the classification just doesn't matter as much as the abilities and balance of the unit, so I was content to just follow the conventions observed in the other BL2E xpacs.  By the same token, I'm just as willing to defy that convention.

QFT

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2 hours ago, Taki said:

I didn't see/realize that you had done the two army lists, I just saw all the ideas for powers and units in the doc that was linked.

As to the Legend unit, I agree and I don't.  The latari are deviant in Runewars the board game in the same way, with only one big bad, and a higher midranged unit competency, as discussed here...

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2009/11/6/protectors-of-the-forest/

Maybe a unit like the banshee, like a large caster?  A dryad could serve there

But if we look at Rune Age, they have the same suite of 6 units at costs of 1, 2, 3, 3, 5, and 6. Rune Age puts the Pegasus Rider on equal footing with the Chaos Lord, Dark Knight, and Siege Tower.

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Well and if you look at the slots we have left we done:

Amyhelin Scout

Deepwood Archer

Darnati Warrior

Storm Sorceress

Leonx Rider

Forest Guardian

We have 3 slots left to make the usual lineup of 9.  That means we could include everything so far with no problems:

Pegasus Rider (pretty much an auto-include for me since it's already in the other games)

Dragonfly (I'm starting to like the idea of a ranged flyer more and more)

Dryad (It would be cool to have double 'caster' types on the same team even if they don't both cost 5. It makes sense to me since we want generating and spending lore to be big mechanics with this team.  Could be, elite, ranged or melee, caster type?)

We don't have to do this list, but I don't really see us needing to cut any of these options we've been discussing unless I've totally forgotten something else.

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On 10/3/2017 at 7:27 PM, Willange said:

Well and if you look at the slots we have left we done:

Amyhelin Scout

Deepwood Archer

Darnati Warrior

Storm Sorceress

Leonx Rider

Forest Guardian

We have 3 slots left to make the usual lineup of 9.  That means we could include everything so far with no problems:

Pegasus Rider (pretty much an auto-include for me since it's already in the other games)

Dragonfly (I'm starting to like the idea of a ranged flyer more and more)

Dryad (It would be cool to have double 'caster' types on the same team even if they don't both cost 5. It makes sense to me since we want generating and spending lore to be big mechanics with this team.  Could be, elite, ranged or melee, caster type?)

We don't have to do this list, but I don't really see us needing to cut any of these options we've been discussing unless I've totally forgotten something else.

Hello !

I read your great ideas guys, congratulations and thanks for such awesome creative work !

Sorry about no contributions by my side.

I only want to say that the above list fits perfect with Latary lore and other game units. 

  • Amyhelin Scout
  • Deepwood Archer
  • Darnati Warrior
  • Storm Sorceress
  • Leonx Rider
  • Forest Guardian
  • Pegasus Rider
  • Dragonfly Patrol
  • Dryad Warden

I almost can see them in green plastic fighting on my board !

I will continue expectant ... thank you all !!! ^_^

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I m still hoping for the realease of the latari elves both for runewars and battlelore...

now that FFG has an entire lab-division dedicated to miniatures i think they can have the possibility to releases these two blessed latari army packs.

we'll see..

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and Battlelore is in the Dice tower's FFG TOP TEN..

it's absolutely not a case because this game is a masterpiece. please FFG let's complete the circle and give us the latari elves (maybe in the same moment you release them in Runewars)

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The models are way too big for BattleLore. These Runewars figures will be Descent/Imperial Assault-sized figures. The only thing this does for BattleLore is provide art assets for use in cross-over units. For example, Reanimates and Reanimate Archers use the same art from BattleLore. It's possible we could see the Runewars elf art used in Latari packs. Additionally, art like the image on the expansion box could be used in lore cards.

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budge is right. the models are too big but now FFG has all the art already developed for Runewars.

so the step is easy to use this art for Battlelore. (maybe the same sculpt just rivisited with less details for miniature size of battlelore)

the 2017 (maybe gencon) is the right moment to pull the "battlelore's elves" out of the hat!

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I was just messing around and, based on many of the ideas on here, came up with these two 'expansion' packs. Very early draft, obviously. Input and criticism highly appreciated, as I am just trying to help the conversation along.

 

Expansion #1

Deepwood Archer

Infantry, Archer, Ranged

Movement value: 2

Combat value: 2 (range 1-4)

Health: 3

[Heroic] Crackshot: Ignore all other dice rolled during this combat and cause 1 damage to the target unit.

Mobility 1: If this unit was ordered, it may move up to 1 hex after your Attack step.

Storm Sorceress

Infantry, Ranged, Caster

Movement value: 3

Combat Value: 2 (1-3)

Health: 3

[Heroic]: Gain 2 Lore

Summon Storm: Instead of attacking, you may choose an enemy Flying unit at range 1-3 and roll 3 dice. For each [Ranged] and [Heroic], deal 1 damage.

 

Leonx Rider

Cavalry, Melee

Movement value: 3

Combat Value: 3

Health: 3

Mobility 3: If this unit was ordered, it may move up to 3 hex after your Attack step.

Strider: This unit ignores the movement restrictions of forest and water hexes.

 

Darnati Warrior

Infantry, Elite

Movement value: 2

Combat Value: 4

Health: 3

[Heroic] Killing Blow: You may add 1 damage if this would cause the opposing unit to be destroyed.

Fearless: This unit ignores retreat results.

Dragonfly Rider

Dragon, Melee, Legend

Movement value: 3

Combat Value: 3

Health: 5

Flying

Sky-born Volley: Instead of attacking, this unit may make a ranged attack at range 1-3 with attack dice equal to its current life.  This attack ignores line-of-sight requirements and hills provide no defense bonus.

Expansion #2

Deepwood Archer

Infantry, Archer, Ranged

Movement value: 2

Combat value: 2 (range 1-4)

Health: 3

[Heroic] Crackshot: Ignore all other dice rolled during this combat and cause 1 damage to the target unit.

Mobility 1: If this unit was ordered, it may move up to 1 hex after your Attack step.

Aymhelin Scout

Infantry, Melee

Movement value: 2

Combat value: 3

Health: 3

Strider: This unit ignores the movement restrictions of forest and water hexes.

Evasive: This unit may suffer a retreat to ignore 1 damage each combat.

Dryad

Infantry, Ranged, Caster

Movement value: 2

Combat Value: 3 (1-2)

Health: 3

[Heroic] Spell of Growth: Choose 1 friendly unit at range 1-2. That unit may recover 1 figure.

Vine Growth: Adjacent Enemy units may not move.

 

Pegasus Rider

Cavalry, Melee, Elite

Movement value: 4

Combat Value: 3

Health: 3

Flying

Climb and Dive: Instead of moving, you may remove this unit and set them aside. In a future activation phase, you may use one of your orders to place them in any hex in the target front. They may attack that turn.

Forest Guardian

Melee, Legend

Movement value: 2

Combat Value: 4

Health: 4

Armor 1:

Throw Bolder: Instead of attacking, this unit may choose 1 enemy unit at range 2-5 and roll 1 die. On a [Ranged] or a [Heroic] result, that unit suffers 1 damage.

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