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Sonikgav

The fix that needs fixing. M3-A.

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

 

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

Because to the best of my knowledge no one has won anything with these ships? So it's not a player problem, it's a ship problem.

Then you need to improve your knowledge. A Mindlink Scyk list won a tournament earlier this year (regional, I think?). Pre-fix, that was as well.

I myself won a Store tournament with Scyks and Kihraxz shortly after Wave 7 dropped. Admittedly a lot of things have changed in the last two waves, though.

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Or, you could, instead of layering fix upon fix upon fix, accept that it is not a competitive model and move on.

 

Why should everything have to be top tier competitive? There's plenty of room for the Scyk in fan made modes such as racing games or narrative and campaign play.

Exactly.

 

At this point, there are enough models in this game, that if one is not up to par, move on.  I have had lots of fun playing the Scyk, and I haven't even tried it with the fix, yet.

 

In the future, if it is critical that your money is not "wasted" on a non-tourney ship, wait to see if it is effective, then invest.

 

Ne'ertheless, I applaud you mightily for trying something outside meta.

Edited by Darth Meanie

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The problem with the scyk is for a ship of that HP has no green turns.

That is by far my biggest complaint with the ship(post fix). The dial doesn't really suit the ship. The above mentioned 20 pt Mangler cannon, title version is pretty fun to play, but the goal is to leave it at Range 3(you get range bonus, but your opponent doesn't) but this can be hard with its dial. I think just adding a one straight green would go a long, long way in making the ship alot more usable. Then you could slow roll up the field sniping with your cannon, while your heavy hitters fly up and draw fire/finish off opponents. It is the same problem that the Tie Defender with Tie/D has. Add a green(or even white) one straight and bingo, much better ships. Edited by JJFDVORAK

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

 

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

Because to the best of my knowledge no one has won anything with these ships? So it's not a player problem, it's a ship problem.

Then you need to improve your knowledge. A Mindlink Scyk list won a tournament earlier this year (regional, I think?). Pre-fix, that was as well.

I myself won a Store tournament with Scyks and Kihraxz shortly after Wave 7 dropped. Admittedly a lot of things have changed in the last two waves, though.

Fair enough that a mindlink list did good once. It's still a way behind the curve ship, even with the fix. And yes, I fly them and Kihraxz slot. So that's why I jump to ship fix with it. But I would also at least lean that way on most small base scum ships, and many other small base ships. The development has left these ships behind terribly and in a situation where only a Palp crutch and a tie combo makes imperials competitive, where rebels see more unicorns than T-65s, and where the m3-a fix didn't go far enough to make these ships consistently competitive.

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Scyks getting an extra hull merely takes them from being extra horrible to just an average bad. Just like how T-65 X-wings with Integrated Astromech are average bad.

 

Mindlink Scyks can be halfway decent because Mindlink is amazing. Mindlink is doing the heavy lifting. It's the same thing as Corran Horn and R2-D2. E-wings, including Corran, are horribly horrible on their own. R2-D2 with Corran is the utterly broken exception.

 

I liked the idea about giving Scyks 4-agility. They could errata them to have 4-agility and they would still only be average good. At least Laetin would be playable that way.

 

Until FFG fixes the huge menagerie of ships they have left for dead, taking a non-meta list with more than 3-ships to a tournament will simply be a NPE.

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Maybe it needs the X7 treatment. I doubt anymore will be done for some time. This ship wasn't in any movies, just Star Wars Galaxies, saddly not the most popular game. It's just not one of those ships worth doing much too. How well would a scum Aces pack sell with ships unrecognizable from the movies?

 

We can agree I hope that all ships matter but I get the feeling the Scyk not so much.

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Were you using the PS 5's with mindlink? That is where they get action economy.

Nope. I like to try things a little different.

Mine was 3x Tansarii vets with Outmaneuver and Mangler Cannons., plus Laetin and a Tractor Beam.

Hehe.. Wow.

In this Defender meta? JM5ks and, like, Tie Fighters. On a ship with just barrel roll, only if it doesn't want dice modification.

Outmaneuver what? A Lambda?

But in all seriousness I'm pumped you liked it enough to take it to a Regional, though. I probably won't even get to go this time around.

Edited by Rinzler in a Tie

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The problem with the scyk is for a ship of that HP has no green turns.

The whites are just fine.

 

Not when it comes to positioning. TIE Interceptors, A-wings, TAPs, and Concords can still do a hard turn after PTL or even getting stressed which is becoming more prevalent in the meta. The whites are not just fine. The MA-3 Scyk as of now has no capability to be worthy of being called an interceptor. The Scyk was supposed to be a customizable ship that could have been built as an equivalent to an A-wing/TIE Interceptor but fails as any high mobility build (PTL+EU) pales in comparison of a TIE Interceptor or A-wing.

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

When i manage to get into position for 3 Mangler Cannon shots, out of arc at Manaroo, who has taken a Tractor Beam hit, ie has 0 defence dice against this attack, and i get 9 Blank Dice while they all have a focus token, that's not something i can improve on in regards to my personal ability.

Predator man! it is statistically superior to outmaneuver on 3 dice attacks even if you trigger outmaneuver everytime (against 2 defense dice). Edited by channellockjon

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It's not the M3A, and quite frankly a good majority of it falls the player skill. So far the M3A has been carrying for me.

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

"Mangler" Cannon (4)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Concord Dawn Ace (23)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Ketsu Onyo (38)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Dengar (3)

Glitterstim (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Shadow Caster (3)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

25th at worlds. M3A carried at least 3 games. Love the frustration it caused my opponents. 4 games had my opponent explicitly angry at it not dieing.

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Ion Cannon (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Concord Dawn Ace (23)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Tansarii Point Veteran (17)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Ion Cannon (3)

"Heavy Scyk" Interceptor (Cannon) (2)

Concord Dawn Ace (23)

Attanni Mindlink (1)

Autothrusters (2)

Concord Dawn Protector (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Is currently my choice of squadron and it's doing great. Went 2-1 in today's tournament, lost my first game against a new rey build, but that was my fault, first engagement was on his terms, and the fact that my opponent didn't need to modify his dice, at all... But it's performing great.

The M3A DOESNT need green turns. The greens it has are fine. You needed to augment their actions some how but you chose not to, and so, like a TIE it will die. If it has a stack of evade and focus, the thing isn't going to die. The amount of times my M3As are limping on 1 health has been great.

I suggest if you have a hard time with the ship, it isn't the style of flying for you. I would suggest something else. Or at least try it with something that works to the ships benefit.

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Outmaneuver is a frustrating card. It's most obvious use is on the sorts of highly maneuverable ships that already prefer PTL. And then, as has been previously mentioned, it isn't as good as Predator on a 3 attack ship.

I have had success with the card on a Quick Draw with Primed Thrusters and FCS. FCS's Target Lock means you get rerolls, and Primed Thrusters opens up barel rolling after S-loops or the hard turns.

Not to mention the rear gun...

Thinking about it, outmaneuver might also be good on Snap, though PS 6 is not ideal.

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

 

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

 

When i manage to get into position for 3 Mangler Cannon shots, out of arc at Manaroo, who has taken a Tractor Beam hit, ie has 0 defence dice against this attack, and i get 9 Blank Dice while they all have a focus token, that's not something i can improve on in regards to my personal ability.

 

You have a target lock and just re-roll all your 9 dice into 6.75 hits thanks to your focus token. Your first issue was to only have one dice mode instead of two, which is based on you having out maneuver. Besides, bad dice happen, next turn you might roll 9 hits instead. You don't get just one shot in a game.

Now target lock against Manaroo has some other issues, meaning that she simply was not as defenseless as you hoped.

 

 

 

 

The problem with the scyk is for a ship of that HP has no green turns.

The whites are just fine.

 

Not when it comes to positioning. TIE Interceptors, A-wings, TAPs, and Concords can still do a hard turn after PTL or even getting stressed which is becoming more prevalent in the meta. The whites are not just fine. The MA-3 Scyk as of now has no capability to be worthy of being called an interceptor. The Scyk was supposed to be a customizable ship that could have been built as an equivalent to an A-wing/TIE Interceptor but fails as any high mobility build (PTL+EU) pales in comparison of a TIE Interceptor or A-wing.

 

PTL is useless for the M3A sure, but mindlink lists laugh at stress harder than PTL ships, because you just need to clear the stress with one ship to have actions on all. Look at this beautiful dial: 

Scyk-Movement.png

 

You can go fast and slow, you have 6 greens still, not the kind of greens you want to use with PTL to get into a turn fight, but the kind of greens which are fine to clear stress and barrel roll or focus afterwards. Now M3A are a little weaker than Fangs against stresshogs as the missing green hard-turn, but just like the inquisitor they want to go slow for the most part anyway … at least if you run them with cannons as you don't trigger the range 3 bonus. The only thing I really wished the dial would have a well is a green 1 straight and a white 5 straight. Everything else would make them imho to strong.

 

 

edit: Oh and lastly outmaneuver for 1 or maybe 2 points might be worth taking, but as it is right now? No way. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

When i manage to get into position for 3 Mangler Cannon shots, out of arc at Manaroo, who has taken a Tractor Beam hit, ie has 0 defence dice against this attack, and i get 9 Blank Dice while they all have a focus token, that's not something i can improve on in regards to my personal ability.

Predator man! it is statistically superior to outmaneuver on 3 dice attacks even if you trigger outmaneuver everytime (against 2 defense dice).

 

Yeah, while only offering one reroll against named ships, at least it would trigger every attack.  Hell, Heavy Laser Cannon over Outmaneuver would have been an better option as well with all that damage mitigation out there.

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I don't think the Scyk needs further fixing. Mindlink gives you the opportunity of taking the required action and get focus on top of it.

The dial is a bit crappy in comparison to interceptors, but let's not forget that the base ship costs 13 and is more alike to a Tie/LN instead of an interceptor. The Fang is the actual scum interceptor.

What the ship really needs is (just like the Rebel Y-Wing) more named pilots with an EPT. In a meta where generics are just not a common pick, this one has Serissu, a much worse reversed Howlrunner that lends itself to swarm play, but in a faction that can't field swarms that are as good as at least a Tie Swarm (which is also gone from the meta).

Laetin would arguably be pretty good with an EPT. But as it is there is no action economy to begin with and therefore the Pilot ability could also just not exist. If Laetin was truly difficult to hit with the first shot, it would be difficult to ignore when a Mangler or HLC strapped on.

The Tansari veteran is without any doubt the best of the Scyks. Which is okay, but the exact contrary to the meta trend and to how other ships are used. Again the comparison to the Y-Wing strikes as the generic Gold squadron pilot is the only one playable for Rebels at least.

So give this ship 3-4 new named pilots with EPT and decent abilities. Preferably also give Laetin access to an EPT slot. Then you have a quite competitive ship, since it's the cheapest cannon-carrier in any faction!

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Yeah, like a few other ships it could happily do with a few more options; the Heavy Scyk title is pretty much a must at present..  Add some new named pilots that can help make the most out of the current frame, a different title or two (maybe something similar to the TIE/x1, but offering a free mod or illicit up to a certain value, or similar to the TIE/x7 with a function that might help get the most out of a naked Cartel Spacer or current named pilots).

 

Example - 

 

Custom Rigged - Title - Scyk Only - your upgrade bar gains the (illicit) icon.  If you equip an (illicit) upgrade or modification, it's squad points cost is reduced by 2.  (0 points)

 

Responsive Handling - Title - Scyk Only - after executing a white maneuver, you may perform a free barrel roll or evade action.  (1 point)

 

 

The Heavy Scyk title however is perfectly fine as is.  It doesn't need any further adjusting.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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What the ship really needs is (just like the Rebel Y-Wing) more named pilots with an EPT. In a meta where generics are just not a common pick, this one has Serissu, a much worse reversed Howlrunner that lends itself to swarm play, but in a faction that can't field swarms that are as good as at least a Tie Swarm (which is also gone from the meta).

 

No no no no.... Serissu is NOT a reverse Howlrunner, and she does not lend herself to swarm play. 

 

Howlrunner does because she is best if you have more attacks, and more ships  means more attacks. All that matters for Serissu is that a ship she is close to is being attacked. So she is closer to Biggs in how she works. She is cheap enough that she works great as filler alongside a ship like a Lancer or Palob to give it a defence re-roll. 

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Outmaneuver is a frustrating card. It's most obvious use is on the sorts of highly maneuverable ships that already prefer PTL. And then, as has been previously mentioned, it isn't as good as Predator on a 3 attack ship.

I have had success with the card on a Quick Draw with Primed Thrusters and FCS. FCS's Target Lock means you get rerolls, and Primed Thrusters opens up barel rolling after S-loops or the hard turns.

Not to mention the rear gun...

Thinking about it, outmaneuver might also be good on Snap, though PS 6 is not ideal.

Outmanuver on Vader with accuracy corrector is actually quite decent. Never have to target lock, so you can stack focus+evade or boost+roll every turn without sacrificing any damage output.

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BTW I do find the whole, "we haven't seen M3-As in tournament" thing a bit silly... They got changed a week before Worlds, you would have to be an idiot of the first order to try experimenting with new builds a week before a main event. People were going to fall back on the old tried and tested lists.

 

Nor would I think the performance of a M3-A mono-biome list with 3 Outmanoeuvres, a card which is considered to be an inferior version of Predator, and bad action efficiency to be a good indication of their usefulness. I have seen people get reasonably far with a much more measured use of them, either as filler, a cheap way to get Ions into the list or with Attani Mindlink.

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I disagree with the always take mindlink, but I do think you either go cheap as chips filler.. 19pt Ion Scyk or 20pt Mangler... or you use Attani mindlink for the Action economy.... I also question running a list of entirely Scyks, They work great if they aren't the biggest threat on the board, because out at range 3 taking long range sniper shots most people question shooting at them and probably missing, or going after another ship.

Hit it right on the nose there. Make them threat number 2. I like running 2 of them with Boba Fett. Just watch your opponent's face when they see 2 scyks and a firespray get placed. And then watch the look slowly turn to horror as the Scyks and Boba throw a total of 12+ heavily modded dice at a single ship (fearlessness on boba). Priceless.

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I disagree with the always take mindlink, but I do think you either go cheap as chips filler.. 19pt Ion Scyk or 20pt Mangler... or you use Attani mindlink for the Action economy.... I also question running a list of entirely Scyks, They work great if they aren't the biggest threat on the board, because out at range 3 taking long range sniper shots most people question shooting at them and probably missing, or going after another ship.

Hit it right on the nose there. Make them threat number 2. I like running 2 of them with Boba Fett. Just watch your opponent's face when they see 2 scyks and a firespray get placed. And then watch the look slowly turn to horror as the Scyks and Boba throw a total of 12+ heavily modded dice at a single ship (fearlessness on boba). Priceless.

 

 

I really like Ion Scyks with Asajj, so you think you are going to be able to remove that stress... I don't think so.... Oh, poor Soontir were you planning on using actions this game... 

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