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Sonikgav

The fix that needs fixing. M3-A.

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Well, took my Scyk list to regionals today and out of 121 finishers, i was 120th, finishing 1-5.

 

Plenty of nice comments about trying to play something different but its clear the Scyk is still vastly underpowered and the fix to the title didnt help. Its HP was not the problem.

 

Now i dont wanna sound like im just complaining about results, but im a long time tournament player and i dont complain about my Dice, but when my opponents are telling me "You had me dead to rights, your dice literally cheated you) i feel a little badly done to but it revealed to me the Sycks real problem. There is literally no room for error with this ship. There is no mitigation for bad rolls etc as there is virtually 0 action economy. Most turns i was using a Focus, but despite the fact the Syck has Evade/TL/Roll on its bar i almost never used them. I was considering PTL but the dial doesn't lend itself to clearing stress.

 

Speaking of which, the Dial on the Scyk doesnt lend itself well either. Without the title, its a TIE Interceptor, with the title it has the stats of an A-Wing but nowhere near the movement ability and again, although 3 dice, it doesnt have ability to token load like the Interceptors. The ability to take a Cannon is nice, but the number of times they dont even get to fire due to being annihilated etc.

 

The +1 hull would have been a great fix when the Scyk first came out, but unfortunately in todays meta, filled with 4/5/6 dice attacks, one bad roll means your Syck is just deleted. 

 

Im kinda wondering if, instead of a free Hull Upgrade, it should have been a free Stealth Device (or equiv) and make the Scyk the first 4 green ship. Doesnt help majorly vs bad rolls but it increases the odds. Either that or perhaps something to boost actions (like a Scyk only mod).

 

I know im kinda crying that the square peg wont go in the round hole but i like the little Scyk, and Scum are lacking when it comes to small ship Dogfighters. The Fang is picking up the slack now but i think people play the Khirax even less than they Scyk.

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I can confirm that your dice failed you completely in at least 2 of your games (I flew FGD's 2 ARCs + Biggs, and one of my friends flew mindlinked Manaroo + 2 Fangs).

You are right in that Scyks are very dice dependant. On the other hand I lost to a list with 2 Fangs, a HLC scyk, and a headhunter.

It did a lot of damage, but not as much as the Fangs so I focussed on them first. By the time they were dead, I'd lost all my ships.

So 1 scyk, surrounded by more dangerous ships, can be successful.

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Were you using the PS 5's with mindlink? That is where they get action economy.

 

Nope. I like to try things a little different.

 

Mine was 3x Tansarii vets with Outmaneuver and Mangler Cannons., plus Laetin and a Tractor Beam.

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Nope. I like to try things a little different.

 

...that could be a big part of the problem here.

 

I mean full credit for trying something different and all, but if you decide not to run the builds which are actually proven to work in favour of experimenting with something a little different at a highly competitive event, then you need to shoulder the majority of the blame rather than the ship.

 

To put that in context, that's like running Soontir Fel with Daredevil instead of Push the Limit - it sounds like it could be fun, works with his ability, but if it crashes and burns, do you blame the ship?

 

Maybe we can change the subject line to "the list that needs fixing"?

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...also, Scyk's aren't TIE Interceptors or A-Wings - they have an entirely different role, and should be flown in an entirely different manner.  This is deliberate.  Trying to compare the Scyk's function to those two ships isn't going to help matters.

Edited by FTS Gecko

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Were you using the PS 5's with mindlink? That is where they get action economy.

 

Nope. I like to try things a little different.

 

Mine was 3x Tansarii vets with Outmaneuver and Mangler Cannons., plus Laetin and a Tractor Beam.

^

I don't think there is any ship in the game which could survive placing outmaneuver 3 times on it and still win games.

And for M3As I would go even further and say that whatever you do with them, you want mindlink on them, because they suck without action economy.

Edited by SEApocalypse

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I disagree with the always take mindlink, but I do think you either go cheap as chips filler.. 19pt Ion Scyk or 20pt Mangler... or you use Attani mindlink for the Action economy.... I also question running a list of entirely Scyks, They work great if they aren't the biggest threat on the board, because out at range 3 taking long range sniper shots most people question shooting at them and probably missing, or going after another ship.

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Were you using the PS 5's with mindlink? That is where they get action economy.

 

Nope. I like to try things a little different.

 

Mine was 3x Tansarii vets with Outmaneuver and Mangler Cannons., plus Laetin and a Tractor Beam.

 

^

I don't think there is any ship in the game which could survive placing outmaneuver 3 times on it and still win games.

And for M3As I would go even further and say that whatever you do with them, you want mindlink on them, because they suck without action economy.

 

 

But isnt that in itself the problem? A Scyk list only works if you run mindlink?

 

And i wasnt trying to fly them like Interceptors but that is the main comparison with the stats. It is after all the 'M3-A Interceptor'. The issue i had is a defensive one.

 

To re-focus my complaint, its that a +1 hull upgrade is redundant in todays game considering the amount of offensive firepower out there. Its the same reason Rebels only work as Regen, because their defence sucks and they rely on their health pool which is easily chewed up. 3hp vs 4hp doesnt help this ship.

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Or, you could, instead of layering fix upon fix upon fix, accept that it is not a competitive model and move on.

 

Why should everything have to be top tier competitive? There's plenty of room for the Scyk in fan made modes such as racing games or narrative and campaign play.

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I disagree on the "always Mindlink" as well, as Cartel Manglers are now a very solid 20 point filler ship.

 

However, Mindlinked Tansarri's with focus/evade token stacks (and, if you're lucky, a range 3 bonus, because you should be trying to use the cannon's abilities to your benefit) are quite defensive.

 

Not x7, Inquisitor, Omega Leader or Soontir Hell defensive, of course, but you gets what you pays for.

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Were you using the PS 5's with mindlink? That is where they get action economy.

 

Nope. I like to try things a little different.

 

Mine was 3x Tansarii vets with Outmaneuver and Mangler Cannons., plus Laetin and a Tractor Beam.

^

I don't think there is any ship in the game which could survive placing outmaneuver 3 times on it and still win games.

And for M3As I would go even further and say that whatever you do with them, you want mindlink on them, because they suck without action economy.

 

But isnt that in itself the problem? A Scyk list only works if you run mindlink?

 

And i wasnt trying to fly them like Interceptors but that is the main comparison with the stats. It is after all the 'M3-A Interceptor'. The issue i had is a defensive one.

 

To re-focus my complaint, its that a +1 hull upgrade is redundant in todays game considering the amount of offensive firepower out there. Its the same reason Rebels only work as Regen, because their defence sucks and they rely on their health pool which is easily chewed up. 3hp vs 4hp doesnt help this ship.

TIE-Interceptors only work with PTL. Now that is indeed to some degree a problem, because it makes for very static builds, but it certainly is not the end of the world.

With M3As you are in a similar boat, you just need those focus+evade tokens defensively or you will die rather fast. (ok, you could go with focus,focus too for a more offensive option), but certainly if have your token stack and your option to roll, the ship becomes quite robust, especially for its price and with that extra hull point.

The problem with the scyk is for a ship of that HP has no green turns.

The whites are just fine.

Edited by SEApocalypse

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Didn't a player at worlds place pretty well with a scyk?

 

I think your issue was spamming both scyks and Outmaneuver.

 

The scyk has always, to me, been like salt. You add a pinch of it, and it makes things taste a little bit better. You drown something in it, and it's getting spit right back out. You need to pair it with ships that don't have the same issues as it does for it to be worthwhile.

 

Outmaneuver is a fun ability, but there is a reason it is hardly ever seen at top tables. First there are far better, and cheaper options for the same or lower price that will always trigger when you need them to. For tournament play in general, Outmaneuver is a bad upgrade option because it punts haaaaaard in certain match ups. God forbid you face double VCX or Decis, or high PS re-positioning aces that will NEVER let you shoot them without them having arc on you. 1 ship in your list with outmaneuver? Sure, go for it. But 3 is asking for a match up where 9 points go wasted.      

 

 

I think the comments about Scyks needing mindlink are true as well, even if it's not a fun idea. This game is moving more and more towards super action stacks, and Mindlink allows the Scyk to take advantage of its pleasantly varied action list.  Otherwise, it is stuck where all the other single action ships are- nowhere.

Edited by Kdubb

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Were you using the PS 5's with mindlink? That is where they get action economy.

 

Nope. I like to try things a little different.

 

Mine was 3x Tansarii vets with Outmaneuver and Mangler Cannons., plus Laetin and a Tractor Beam.

 

 

I mean, you're not flying action efficient ships with 3 (worthless) agility and 4 hull

 

so really, you wanted to get **** dice to influence your games :P

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

 

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

 

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

 

When i manage to get into position for 3 Mangler Cannon shots, out of arc at Manaroo, who has taken a Tractor Beam hit, ie has 0 defence dice against this attack, and i get 9 Blank Dice while they all have a focus token, that's not something i can improve on in regards to my personal ability.

Edited by Sonikgav

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

 

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

Because to the best of my knowledge no one has won anything with these ships? So it's not a player problem, it's a ship problem.

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Would you have felt better if your 9 blank attack dice happened while you were flying triple x7 defenders with focus tokens instead?

 

No but the issue i have is that i had to prioritise focus. Admittedly against Manaroo i wouldnt Target Lock, but any other target id have the choice, but probably would need to rely on focus to hedge my bets. Similarly i cant split the choice for Evade/Focus etc.

 

Those X7's wouldnt have had to make that choice and dont have to play it safe.

Edited by Sonikgav

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This thread does highlight an interesting point of discussion though.

Why is it that when we see when a player crash and burn with an experimental list in a highly competitive environment, their first instinct is often to say "how can we fix this ship" rather than "where did I go wrong" or "how can I improve"?

When i manage to get into position for 3 Mangler Cannon shots, out of arc at Manaroo, who has taken a Tractor Beam hit, ie has 0 defence dice against this attack, and i get 9 Blank Dice while they all have a focus token, that's not something i can improve on in regards to my personal ability.

It's also no fault of the ship. Blank dice are blank dice, after all.

You can't fix bad luck - unless you remove it from the equation in the first place.

It's interesting to note that you decry the Scyk's action economy, yet you didn't take the build which actually gives it decent action economy. Hell, you could have even taken 3x Push the Limit instead of 3 x Outmaneuver - would that have helped at all?

And I wonder how your proposal in the opening post would have helped in any way whatsoever with the scenario you outlined above. How would having four green dice helped you when rolling nine blanks to attack? And how would it have been an improvement over having a focus/evade token stack with Mindlink?

Edited by FTS Gecko

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