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Undeadguy

Fleet Archetypes

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Posted (edited)
On 11/17/2016 at 7:15 PM, Undeadguy said:

What is your favorite archetype to play, play against, and least favorite to play against? I enjoy seing the diversity of this game and everyone's thoughts so share them.

 

My favorite archetype to play are bomber fleets.

I enjoy playing against MSU/DeMSU.

I hate playing against YT-2400 spam.

I love playing against anything except Sloane Two-ship, Thrawn Two-ship, BTAvenger, and Rieekan Aces.
My favorite archetype is MSU/DeMSU, and if I'm playing Rebels, you'd bet on there being YT-2400s there!

Pro Necromancer out.

Edited by DunaMoose

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On 11/19/2016 at 12:26 PM, Nostromoid said:

I love running tight formations of big battleships, so gunlines of VSDs, ISDs, Interdictors are my favorite. For Rebel fleets, I have a soft spot for lists with as many different types of ship as possible.

 

I viciously hate Rhymer, as he's way broken and appears in the same dumb ball in every list, so I never use him. However, I think TIE bombers are sweet, so I'm looking forward to Janus so I can have bombers make my big battleships even better.

Now I know this was before the Rhymer nerf, but just wondering why you thought he was "way broken"? I know that seams to be the general attitude most had, but my area did not find that to be the case (he almost never even hit the table and has not once post nerf) so just trying to see the other side.

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On 11/19/2016 at 7:42 AM, Eggzavier said:

I believe I've spoken pretty extensively of my personal dislike and frustration of facing 8 YT2400zzz.

I don't fault the people that play it though - it's a good group of fighters. My beef is that it's unthematic and my frustration with the ship itself being pretty **** efficient for its cost.

No slights against my opponents though.

I find it funnest when I try and play thematically, and find it least fun to play against the unthematic fleets (having said this I know that it is really my issue as there is no standard for what is or is not thematically correct, and how each player feels is different).

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On 4/22/2019 at 7:13 PM, CDAT said:

Now I know this was before the Rhymer nerf, but just wondering why you thought he was "way broken"? I know that seams to be the general attitude most had, but my area did not find that to be the case (he almost never even hit the table and has not once post nerf) so just trying to see the other side.

"Overpowered" is a vague term, but yes he was too good for his cost. For the price of two TIE Bombers, he was in the category of so good you'd have to be an idiot not to include Rhymer in any list that uses at least four bomber squadrons.

The basic strategy of using Rhymer efficiently was to pack as many bombers as could fit--not in your fleet budget, because you obviously maxed out on that, but simply physically fitting within the bubble--and dropping an Intel squadron onto it. You can include a TIE Advanced squad or two if you want to slow down the counter-punch even more. The Rhymerball sits in the middle of the field and blows away a ship every round. You can send your own squadrons, but you've already been alpha struck on your ships and you start the game down. You can rush in to flak away, but the rest of the fleet is waiting for you. It lets you be both passive (you get to sit back and make your enemy answer you) and hyper-aggressive (you get to shoot before the enemy does, and your shooting hurts them faster than their shooting can hurt you back). It mitigates your losses (your TIE bombers are fat with 5 hull and super cheap, so nothing less than an all-in commitment from your opponent has a chance at ending the threat). It even gets around the bad bad bad TIE/b antisquadron armament if you slap Ruthless Strategists onto your best flakking ship.

It's everything awful about

  • The mad efficiency of bombers versus ships, who can't efficiently block their attacks with defense tokens due to being easily overwhelmed. When people complained about bombers stealing focus from capital ships, this is the list they were complaining about.
  • The annoying and unthematic spamming of the same cheap thing over and over. Remember that battle from the movies with 5,000 bombers, one Jumpmaster, and nothing else? No? Me neither.
  • The teeth-grinding frustration of watching your opponent spend forever delicately arranging the Rhymerball so that every squad touches the radius of his ability. Aura effects suck and waste my gaming time. "Oh, just a millimeter this way, rotate the base so that the activation slider goes this way, and now I can squeeze one more squadron in here."
  • Anti-interaction. The Rhymerball ignores your interceptors with Intel. It ignores your positioning because the bombers can chase you anywhere and shoot from medium range. It ignores your return fire because at that point in the game there was no ship that could shoot anti-squadron further than medium range. It ignores basically all 

Now, Rhymer isn't really oppressive anymore, and in fact is hardly even competitive. That's partly because he was severely nerfed, though I think he's perfectly fair with the new ability. It's also because Sloane is stronger than new Rhymer (she and the Quasar were finally the impetus for FFG to errata him). It's also because we finally have Early Warning System, which crushes Rhymerballs. It's also because Bomber Command Center got errata'd so that they can't stack, which was simply absurd and made ten bomber shots into ten hit/crits.

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On 4/23/2019 at 11:45 PM, Nostromoid said:

 

Now, Rhymer isn't really oppressive anymore, and in fact is hardly even competitive. That's partly because he was severely nerfed, though I think he's perfectly fair with the new ability. It's also because Sloane is stronger than new Rhymer (she and the Quasar were finally the impetus for FFG to errata him). It's also because we finally have Early Warning System, which crushes Rhymerballs. It's also because Bomber Command Center got errata'd so that they can't stack, which was simply absurd and made ten bomber shots into ten hit/crits.

 

Of course now we've got MMJ

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On 11/17/2016 at 10:24 PM, BiggsIRL said:

I enjoy coming up with "stupid" ideas and testing them out to see if I can make them work in spite of how insane they are.

 

I enjoy playing just about anything, but particularly lists that are seemingly designed to beat mine, so that I can see how well I can fly my horrific abominations against them.

Quoting this little gem from 2016.

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This old post of mine just got liked, so I can prove that my attitude on Rhymer has been perfectly consistent for three years.

On 11/19/2016 at 12:26 PM, Nostromoid said:

I love running tight formations of big battleships, so gunlines of VSDs, ISDs, Interdictors are my favorite. For Rebel fleets, I have a soft spot for lists with as many different types of ship as possible.

 

I viciously hate Rhymer, as he's way broken and appears in the same dumb ball in every list, so I never use him. However, I think TIE bombers are sweet, so I'm looking forward to Janus so I can have bombers make my big battleships even better.

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8 hours ago, Tokra said:

These 3 are even more than 20 damage. If you cannot control them, they do 24-30 damage (against ships!). Not bad for 68 points.

I think he was referring to 20 damage each turn from 10 TIE Bombers with stacked bomber command center flotillas. Even assuming only three turns of attacks, that's 60 damage for 90 points.

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38 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

I think he was referring to 20 damage each turn from 10 TIE Bombers with stacked bomber command center flotillas. Even assuming only three turns of attacks, that's 60 damage for 90 points.

Everybody gangsta until Ciena Ree kills Dengar...

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I like to use an age of sail naval tactic that I have done with success using Arquitens, but I want to try with HMC80s. The idea is you move directly toward the enemy, then, when you would enter Long Range, you swing the entire line into broadside and then turn it into a follow the leader formation as your circle. I pulled it off one time using a 3 ALC and 2 VSD1 list, where the Arquitens pulled off this maneuver, then the began to circle while fireing into the enemy fleet as my VSDs rolled up unloading turbolasers and missiles.

Just wanna see if it can work with Rebels now.

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56 minutes ago, cynanbloodbane said:

I think he was referring to 20 damage each turn from 10 TIE Bombers with stacked bomber command center flotillas. Even assuming only three turns of attacks, that's 60 damage for 90 points.

The only problem is, that you cannot stack Bomber Command Center anymore. This means these 10 TIE Bomber are not doing 20 damage. More like 12-13. 

 

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Posted (edited)

IMO, the double-BCC was an overblown problem, in terms of average damage output.

With one BCC, the distribution is [1/16, 10/16, 5/16] for zero, hit, hit+crit.  With two BCC, the distribution is [3/64, 15/32, 31/64]**.

Its nasty, but not game-breaking.  The first BCC pumps you from 1.0 to 1.25 dmg/black die, while the second one pumps you from 1.25 to 1.43.  Its about 2 damage, out of 14 in a really big pool.  The bigger impact is on the reduction of whiffs.  Hokey religions are no substitute for a source of rerolls at your side, kid.

Maybe that's the real problem with Maarek.  Why bother rolling dice when you can always just flip one of them to a good side?

Edited by jbrandmeyer
really aught to check my quotes first...

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2 hours ago, jbrandmeyer said:

IMO, the double-BCC was an overblown problem, in terms of average damage output.

Double BCC? I was using 3, and it was really broken. Fetching for crits was really insane with it. Three rerolls means you could use two for crits and the last for hit.

But this was before Jendon, stele, shuttles and with old Rhymer.

Now you only use BCC for blank 》hit. Or for bombers with two dice. B-wings and firesprays become way better with BCC.

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Tokra said:

Now you only use BCC for blank 》hit. 

You could crit fish single hits with the same average damage.  Not saying it’s OP by any stretch of imagination these days, but worth thinking about.

Edited by The Jabbawookie

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Posted (edited)

Generally speaking, in all wargames - not just this one - I like running "Ace Custom" squads: small in number, but outfitted to the nines to make sure each unit is lethal in its own right. These sorts of lists tend to require careful planning, as you're almost always outnumbered, but when a plan goes off smoothly you can unload an outrageous amount of pain.

Beyond that, I also tend to value durability - I love ships/units that can take a beating and still come out the other side ready to make a mess of whoever dared cross them. I also tend to gravitate more towards long range armies rather than up-close brawlers. If there's a unit that will let me safely tear apart my opponent's army while my units enjoy a spot of tea on the opposite corner of the table, I am most content.

With both those traits in mind, my favourite ship in Armada is the ISD2 - especially with Motti, Tua/ECM, Seventh Fleet Star Destroyer and/or Shields to Maximum to make them even more survivable. Big, tanky, lots of upgrade slots and possessed with enough firepower to put anything that's foolish enough to be in its front arc in a world of hurt (and able to deliver its full payload at medium range to boot), it is pretty much my dream ship. The fact that it's reasonably speedy/manoeuvrable, unlike its little brother in the VSD, is just icing on the cake.

I usually wind up building my lists around a Star Destroyer or two (usually a Cymoon and an ISD2), and I sometimes have to push myself to try out different fleet configurations just for the experience. Given my druthers, though, those two are always my staples.

Edited by darkknight109

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