Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Jo Jo

Dace Bonearm, can this worthless pilot get an Errata?

Recommended Posts

 

 

 

Remove the stress, make it once per round. Dace gets good. 

 

Remove the stress, don't make it once per round and Dace gets awesome in a squad where someone has an EMP.

That's fair. Might be overkill to have someone just have a squad of Zs + Dace to do a Super Feedback, auto 4, 5 damage. Maybe to prevent this, have Dace's ability be a must and not a may, and have it effect friendlies as well.

 

When a friendly or enemy ship at Range 1-3 receives at least 1 ion token, if you are not stressed, you receive 1 stress token to cause that ship to suffer 1 damage.

 

 

 

EMP is unique. So you are only doing the Dace + EMP bomb combo once. I don't think that combo would be OP at all.

 

2 unavoidable damage to all enemies in range one of the EMP carrier? It may not be OP but it's pretty **** powerful.

 

Ion bombs would be a little harder to deploy but just as damaging. EMP the first round, then drop a couple of Ion bombs the next and you've dealt 6 points of damage to anything that got hit by all 3. 

 

...Relying on a ship with 5 HP and 2 green dice that still has to be within range of the victims and costs at least 1/3 of your list.

 

It's kind like saying, "Wedge's ability is too strong!" It is strong, but it's stapled to a ship that dies in the first or second round of the actual furball, unless you dedicate yet another ship (Biggs) to making sure he doesn't die.

 

With this errata, Bonearm would become the obvious target; he's what the list relies on. You'd need to kill him before getting rekt by ion damage, and it's not hard to kill an HWK. A Bonearm player probably need to skip the offense and go straight defense with a Cloaking Device and maybe RecSpec.

 

It'd be a win-all, lose-all list, but wouldn't be OP, and most important, it would mean another pilot with an interesting ability would be seen in tournaments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HWK-290: · Torkil Mux (19)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

HWK-290: · Palob Godalhi (20)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

HWK-290: · Dace Bonearm (23)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Y-Wing: Syndicate Thug (18)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Remove the stress, make it once per round. Dace gets good. 

 

Remove the stress, don't make it once per round and Dace gets awesome in a squad where someone has an EMP.

That's fair. Might be overkill to have someone just have a squad of Zs + Dace to do a Super Feedback, auto 4, 5 damage. Maybe to prevent this, have Dace's ability be a must and not a may, and have it effect friendlies as well.

 

When a friendly or enemy ship at Range 1-3 receives at least 1 ion token, if you are not stressed, you receive 1 stress token to cause that ship to suffer 1 damage.

 

 

 

EMP is unique. So you are only doing the Dace + EMP bomb combo once. I don't think that combo would be OP at all.

 

2 unavoidable damage to all enemies in range one of the EMP carrier? It may not be OP but it's pretty **** powerful.

 

Ion bombs would be a little harder to deploy but just as damaging. EMP the first round, then drop a couple of Ion bombs the next and you've dealt 6 points of damage to anything that got hit by all 3. 

 

...Relying on a ship with 5 HP and 2 green dice that still has to be within range of the victims and costs at least 1/3 of your list.

 

It's kind like saying, "Wedge's ability is too strong!" It is strong, but it's stapled to a ship that dies in the first or second round of the actual furball, unless you dedicate yet another ship (Biggs) to making sure he doesn't die.

 

With this errata, Bonearm would become the obvious target; he's what the list relies on. You'd need to kill him before getting rekt by ion damage, and it's not hard to kill an HWK. A Bonearm player probably need to skip the offense and go straight defense with a Cloaking Device and maybe RecSpec.

 

It'd be a win-all, lose-all list, but wouldn't be OP, and most important, it would mean another pilot with an interesting ability would be seen in tournaments.

 

Exactly. Which is why we need this, and other pilot erratas (Rhymer, Lt. Lorrir, Fel's Wrath, etc.) to be a thing. There is nothing about this that would be more "destructive" to the game than components we already have. The idea of Dace currently is fantastic. A universal (though range limited) ion ability is a GREAT idea on a HWK pilot! But, the design team limited him too heavily with the stress restriction.

 

Say the proposed change did make him amazing. You know whats crazy? You would still have more ways to counter his ability than you do the ability of x7. Stress cancels it out 100%. Smart flying and forcing poor range bubbles will make the best ion alpha strike a pain. You might even see players field ENGINE UPGRADE or VECTORED THRUSTERS on a HWK to mitigate this issue. Doesn't that sound wonderful? It does to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant take off the stress limiter. What happens when Kavil with Genius and boost rolls up to a swarm, drops a bomb and then boosts out.  Then Dace tells all those guys  that just got ion tokens that they now have to take a damage as well.  Talk about OP.   Because of the Genius droid and ion bomb they had really no choice but to limit its output.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oh my god what the (heck)

 

Yes, you have to build the list around his ability. That's okay. Slap Ion turrets on him and Palob, give em K4 and Dengar respectively, plus Mindlink. Can fit 2 Ion Scyks for 99.

 

That'll chew an /x7 list like it's Hannibal Lecter.

 

Dace to the face doesn't really need errata.

 

With all due respect, that is a horrible list idea. lol

 

The main problem I see is that for one, most your ships are gonna have a hard time reliably hitting any of the high agility token stacking ships that are currently common place. Defenders would be easier to get hits on, but Aces could basically ignore shots from your turreted hawks and the low PS Scyk would have a hard time getting a decent shot on one.

 

The second problem is damage potential. All 4 of your ships can only do 1 damage, if Dace lives that nets you a maximum of 5 damage with perfect rolls. Meanwhile every ship in your list has paper mache for hull armor and you're very likely gonna lose a ship in the opening volley. Big ships are the only ones you would be able to reliably Ion, but big ships typically are PWT, thus you're probably gonna die long before he flys off the map or you kill him via a thousand tiny cuts.

 

Honestly I know how people feel about global skills but I feel like his ability should be global as well. The hawk is an extremely limited ship, you can get away with more powerful abilities when they're tied to such a inadequate host. If we made it a global ability with unlimited uses per turn he could reliably be a center piece for list built around him. Connor nets would become even more scary when it's an automatic 2 damage and Ion. Ion thugs with BTL-A4 could reliably put out a respectable 2-3 damage.

 

As is, his ability just ain't worth building a list around. It's to expensive to kit him out to be an independent piece, and currently Ion's not common enough just to throw him in a list that's using it anyway. All around he's just not that well designed of a pilot.

Edited by BomberGob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant take off the stress limiter. What happens when Kavil with Genius and boost rolls up to a swarm, drops a bomb and then boosts out.  Then Dace tells all those guys  that just got ion tokens that they now have to take a damage as well.  Talk about OP.   Because of the Genius droid and ion bomb they had really no choice but to limit its output.

 

 

At minimum (with no turrets on Dace or Kavil) that combo is 55 points. More than likely you are going to at least put a Dorsal on Kavil and Ion on Dace. So now you are at 63 points. No one runs +30 point Y-wings because they simply do not stand up to concentrated fire. Especially a Y-wing who will have to get into the thick of things to do something useful. One miss judge and Kavil bumps. Then he'll be fodder for whatever swarm/formation you are trying to bomb.

 

 

 

 

2 unavoidable damage to all enemies in range one of the EMP carrier? It may not be OP but it's pretty **** powerful.

 

Ion bombs would be a little harder to deploy but just as damaging. EMP the first round, then drop a couple of Ion bombs the next and you've dealt 6 points of damage to anything that got hit by all 3. 

 

 

 

All EMP does is throw 2 ions on every ship at range 1. I'm not sure where you get 2 damage from EMP + Dace. His ability states that if a target receives at least 1 Ion token, then take a damage. It doesn't state take a damage for each token. Basically Dace with this errata can turn Ion Bombs into Seismic Ion Bombs, and EMPs into a bigger version of that. Seeing as how little utilized bombs are, I don't see anything wrong with buffing them.

Edited by Jo Jo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

All EMP does is throw 2 ions on every ship at range 1. I'm not sure where you get 2 damage from EMP + Dace. His ability states that if a target receives at least 1 Ion token, then take a damage. It doesn't state take a damage for each token. Basically Dace with this errata can turn Ion Bombs into Seismic Ion Bombs, and EMPs into a bigger version of that. Seeing as how little utilized bombs are, I don't see anything wrong with buffing them.

 

 

I remembered Dace's ability wrong. I thought it was when "an Enemy ship at range 1-3 receives an ion token" as opposed to "at least one ion token". Having any of the AoE Ion upgrades deal a single point of damage to each enemy ship that gets tokens wouldn't be a big deal.

 

Taking a damage for each ion token received is a different story. 

Edited by WWHSD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if the text was exactly the same, but at the end read "suffer 1 critical damage".

 

Now ion turrets and bombs and EMPs are tossing crits to shield-less opponents.

 

Or, the end read "deal 1 facedown damage card." Now his ability goes through shields.

Edited by wurms

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm thinking about this list.
 


• Asajj Ventress - 44 points - Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
talent.png Veteran Instincts crew.png Ketsu Onyo title.png Shadow Caster modification.png Gyroscopic Targeting

• Serissu - 25 points - M3-A “Scyk” Interceptor
title.png “Heavy Scyk” Interceptor cannon.png Ion Cannon


• Dace Bonearm - 31 points - HWK-290
talent.png Adaptability turret.png  Ion Cannon Turret crew.png  K4 Security Droid

All the ships would be flying at PS8, which means you can make use of the Tractor beam tokens on both of your Ion shots, and with Dace, one of your Ions are doing 2 damage when you hit which really takes away some of the disadvantage of Ions.... The only real problem is getting stress off Dace, I wish the HWK-290 had more green options. But as you are going to be wanting to do a green every turn why not go with a K4 Security Droid, so you are getting Target Lock and Focus up each turn.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TBH I've not had the best experience with Palob, the opponent generally just takes TLs instead of focus, which means his ability does nothing. And tbh I may be the only one but I find the Ion Cannon much more useful than the Mangler, the mangler has the slimmest of chances of getting 2 damage or even 3. But that happens so rarely, I would rather have the Ion effect, especially with Asajj in the list. An Ioned ship can not drop stress so can't gain tokens the next turn.

 

also even with VI instead of Adaptabilty you are 1 PS less..

 

I ran a similar list against a 3 Amigo style Imperial list... Soontir got double stressed, the next turn Ionised then never came back... Then rince and repeat for Turr.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm thinking about this list.

[snip}

I tried a similar list with Mindlink and Palob instead of Dace. Worked pretty well, Vader didn't like having 2 Tractor Beam tokens(Shadow Caster and Tractor Beam serrisu) and a stress for the next round :P

 

Didn't want to feed Palob any evade or focus tokens, but that's just better for me :P (though it did mean his Blaster Turret wasn't doing a whole lot... Need to adjust the list a little).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You cant take off the stress limiter. What happens when Kavil with Genius and boost rolls up to a swarm, drops a bomb and then boosts out.  Then Dace tells all those guys  that just got ion tokens that they now have to take a damage as well.  Talk about OP.   Because of the Genius droid and ion bomb they had really no choice but to limit its output.

So you (personally) see a guy running Dace Bonearm with this new errata and think, "Golly, Dace Bonearm and Kavil, Ion Bomb, and Genius? Shucks, sure would be a shame if someone shot up that HWK, and if I clumped up nice and tight so that Ion Bomb would nail a bunch of ships... Oh well, what could I do about it! Dum da dee..."

 

 

The problem with so many noobs crying, "OP, broken, waaah!" in wargames is that they only think about what a given combination does if no one interferes with it. If you're playing against it, then by definition you have every right to interfere, and you'd be very dumb to NOT interfere. At least in this game the interactions are pretty clear, unlike, say, Magic.

 

So Dace Bonearm, freed from a Stress restriction, would have a very interesting way of dealing damage - ionization. However, attached to a frail HWK that HAS to be in range would have its built-in weakness right there. Also, there are few reliable ways to slap ion tokens on anyone, and all have problems. Ion Bombs are dial-reveal, meaning that they can be dodged; EMP Device forfeits an attack and ionizes the ship it's on; Ion Turrets are R1-2 and expensive; Ion Cannons are 1-damage cannons, Connor Nets only hit one ship at a time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Removing the stress makes it much more useful. The dial limits the ship enough. Ions go away in a turn, so even with Ion bombs EMPs it wouldn't be overpowered. Probably still would see limited use but some fun lists could be had. It would work like Sabine crew.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I kinda see where they were going for with him. Every other HWK pilot is the inverse of their Rebel counterpart. Roark boosts allies to the highest possible PS, and Mux neuters it. Kyle hands out Focus tokens, Palob steals them. Jan Ors gives allies an extra green, and Dace deals extra damage with Ions.

 

Unfortunately, the problem with Dace is that he completely restricts your listbuilding. You have to build around Ion control, which isn't very strong currently. That means Dace is locked into an Ion Cannon Turret (which is both 5 points and has almost no chance of hitting Autothrusters targets), and probably needs some Ion Cannon Y-Wings or Scyks in support.

 

That said, it does make him that much more glorious when you actually win matches with him.

Random thought: Dace with Emon and some Conner nets could be a fun list. Also hands out two ion tokens. could only deal damage with one unless you took calculation or Dace or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Unfortunately, the problem with Dace is that he completely restricts your listbuilding. You have to build around Ion control, which isn't very strong currently. That means Dace is locked into an Ion Cannon Turret (which is both 5 points and has almost no chance of hitting Autothrusters targets), and probably needs some Ion Cannon Y-Wings or Scyks in support.

 

 

You see that's why I like him, he allows you to play a very different kind of list. That is not restricting listbuilding that is opening it out. I don't think there is an issue with having a ship like Dace, or as FlyingAnchors mentioned Emon, that allow you to play differently. Not every ship has to be top of the meta / run at tournament. Some can be there for you to have a laugh with your mates. (and hell a small meta shift or new card can shift wierd niche pilots into the limelight)

 

Also if you combine him with Asajj you can most definitely hit Autothruster targets. 

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know,  with Wingman and my dirty birds list,   I had some fun games with him and an ion cannon.       Granted it's a small amount and not a top table at worlds or anything, but still very fun!     Take him with vi and 3 other ion cannons, you'll see.   If you have init on a Whisper you can really ruin her day, shooting before she cloaks.    Plus I have seen him really make ion bombs effective too.  

Edited by eagletsi111

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He's a whopping 3 points more than arguably the best HWK pilot in the game

 

He costs 2 less than the best HWK pilot in the game, Jan Ors.

 

 

 

I said arguably. Jan is pretty pricey for what she does and you kind of have to tailor a list around her as well (IE make sure she doesn't die quickly). If you have around 25 points left in your scum list, you can't do much worse than Palob with a turret.

Edited by Jo Jo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

TBH I've not had the best experience with Palob, the opponent generally just takes TLs instead of focus, which means his ability does nothing. 

 

If your opponents aren't taking focus or evade actions then Palob's ability is having an effect. In dozens of games using Palob I have maybe stolen 3 or 4 tokens. Not being able to steal tokens can be frustrating if you are expecting to fuel upgrades like Blaster Turret or Juke with them but Palob is doing his job if he's keeping your opponent from taking the action that they'd want to take.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here would be a fun list if you did what the OP said:

 

Dace Bonearm, k4 droid, Ion Cannon Turret

3x Y-Wing, Ion Cannon Turret

 

I would so play that! It'd be brutal. Maybe I still will...

What about Dace with Wired, Zuckuss, Dampeners and Ion Cannon Turret! Embrace the stress!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Best Palob build is just Dorsal Turret and Cloaking Device anyway - with Mindlink if you're running those kind of shenanigans. You cloak, move in close, steal their tokens or threaten stealing their tokens, and they have to deviate an ungawdly amount of firepower to deal with you anyway.

 

Best Bonearm build with him stress-free would probably run along the same lines. His damage dealing is independent of the cloak token's attack restriction, so you'd probably run him up, give him a focus so he can't be taken so easily, and let your friends ionize stuff while you draw a fair bit of fire for a 5 HP ship. 4 AGI matters. Maybe even Stygium Particle Accelerator to make him even tankier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Here would be a fun list if you did what the OP said:

 

Dace Bonearm, k4 droid, Ion Cannon Turret

3x Y-Wing, Ion Cannon Turret

 

I would so play that! It'd be brutal. Maybe I still will...

What about Dace with Wired, Zuckuss, Dampeners and Ion Cannon Turret! Embrace the stress!

 

 

Dace and Zuckuss just doesn't work, Zuckuss shuts him out ofusing his ability. TBH you want something to help with getting rid of his Stress. I couldn't see anything great... so maybe K4 so the green you are going to want to take each turn, pays off more, or maybe an Engine Upgrade to make the fact that he has to green each turn less predictable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...