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markcsoul

A fair nerf idea for regen

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So after another game today at my regional where a ship regenned waaay too many times, I once again really want to push for a nerf to regen.

 

It's been my least favorite aspect of the game for quite some time.  Nothing worse than having a 2-4 point upgrade give tons of extra hit points over a game if you keep running away to get them back.

 

However I realize many people like regen so I don't know how likely it is to get nerfed.  Some would say it's no different than some of the extreme damage mitigation other ships have.  But for me at least when facing those types of ships if you do get damage in, it sticks.  You know exactly how much damage you have to do to win.  Against regen you have no clue.  You could get lucky and kill them before they regen even once, or they might regen a ton of times.

 

I think a fair solution would be as follows:

Update in FAQ

You cannot regenerate more shields in a game than the original printed shield value on your ship.

 

That means most ships who use regen in this game could only do it a max of 3-4 times during the game.  That's still more than I would like, but fair enough that I think most people could agree to.  I also put "original" shield value so that you can't regen an extra shield for having a shield upgrade.

 

What do you think?

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Like I said i've withnessed (both playing with and against, and watching others) regen be used many many times in a game before.

 

Yea it's nice if you can focus fire the regen ship down quickly, but that's not always possible.  They might have Biggs, or multiple regen ships, or be able to dodge some or all of your arcs, or have good defense so you might do minimal damage and then they just regen again.  And then if you don't kill the regen ship right away, they just can just run away and regen all their shields back before engaging again.

 

I think most people would find that it's rare for a regen ship to be killed before using regen a single time, and even if you use it once it's no worse than a shield upgrade, sometimes even cheaper.

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Regen is the only way a lot of rebel ships are able to earn back their points. If you take that way or make it less effective then half the ships in the Rebel arsenal would be borderline unplayable. Norra with no regen is a waste of 35+ points. The same could be said of Poe, Corran, Miranda and many others. Limited or no regen would mean just about every Rebel list starts 25 points down because Biggs becomes mandatory.

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People assume regen is way better than it is. I mean, I was playing a Rebel list the other day that didn't have it and my opponent kept asking me if I was getting shields back because he was an Imperial player and just thought all Rebels had regen all the time. It's not a big deal; people just let it inflate in their minds.

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I'll agree to nerf Regen if we nerf Soontir. Spent about 40 minutes trying to catch him in a recent match.

Exactly. Corran, Poe, ect. aren't unkillabale to most standard guns as long as you focus fire. I'd rather push some damage through on a Poe and spend a few turns burning him down while he runs away NOT SHOOTING instead of having Soontir just evade all attacks coming in and be free to stay in the fight.

Edit: Also, take a look at the point costs of regen aces vs Soontir. Poe is generally the cheapest, at about 40, while Corran costs HALF of your list at 48. Soontir or X7 defenders in comparison, generally 35 or less. I think there is a reason why Palp Aces are the top dog instead of regen aces.

Edited by TitaniumChopstick

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If regen bothers you that much, start building to counter it harder.

R2-D2 requires a small set of maneuvers, you reasonably know where your opponent will go.

R5-P9 is hampered by tokenstrippers or action deniers. No focus, no regen.

Miranda will limit her damage output and if she is at full shield can be less effective by facing lower PS's.

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I'm not a fan of regen, but I hardly think it needs a nerf. The problem with regen is it's a rookie-slayer. If you don't know how to play against it you'll get crushed, but as soon as you know what you're doing it's a lot less impressive.

 

If it bothers you that much, TIE/D defenders will make mince-meat of all regenerators:

 

44 Maarek w/ Pred, IonC, Hull, TIE/D.

36 Vessery w/ Adapt, Tractor, TIE/D.

20 Scimitar w/ Connor, LRS.

 

Plus they wreck-face against pretty much everything else in the meta.

Edited by CRCL

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Regen is a theme of Rebels. They don't have the tricks of scums, neither the agility of the Empire. The havey a lot of ship with 1 agility.

If you nerf the regen, you simply kill one faction.

My advise is just to learn to fight it, because regen is far for be unbalanced.

Edited by Cerve

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Like I said i've withnessed (both playing with and against, and watching others) regen be used many many times in a game before.

 

Yea it's nice if you can focus fire the regen ship down quickly, but that's not always possible.  They might have Biggs, or multiple regen ships, or be able to dodge some or all of your arcs, or have good defense so you might do minimal damage and then they just regen again.  And then if you don't kill the regen ship right away, they just can just run away and regen all their shields back before engaging again.

 

I think most people would find that it's rare for a regen ship to be killed before using regen a single time, and even if you use it once it's no worse than a shield upgrade, sometimes even cheaper.

Play better, then. Stop blaming a faction's identity(and sole reason for viability) for your own shortcomings. Focus fire them, trap them, force them to choose non-green maneuvers, bump them and deny actions, drop bombs on them, use ordnance, use ships with turrets and non-standard arcs to shoot at them more. Literally anything.

 

let me give you a list of ships Rebels have that would be viable without regen:

 

A-Wings

Y-Wings

 

 

Yeah that's basically it.

Edited by Razgriz25thinf

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Regen is a theme of Rebels. They don't have the tricks of scums, neither the agility of the Empire. The havey a lot of ship with 1 agility.

If you nerf the regen, you simply kill one faction.

That's pretty much it. If you nerf regen, more than half of the competitive Rebel options are gone.

What are they supposed to do? Their ships most often don't lend themselves to arc-dodging, they have 1-2 agility and evade is a very rare sight on rebel ships. in addition, their offense is not that much better so that you could just outdamage them for the win. So without regeneration, you are put on a clock, because your 1-2 agility ships will take damage when shot at, guaranteed. This is not the case for 3 agility ships with evade. They can be shot at a lot and will just dodge way more.

In addition, regenerating Rebel aces are all around 40 points. You can't take 2 of them plus Biggs or a third good ship. Empire has plenty of cheaper aces that are more capable on their own, plus leave you points to take 3 of them or Palpatine.

Worlds had only 25% Rebel participation too. Before Deadeye nerf this was even less on a lot of tournaments. Because regenerating Rebels were kept out of the meta. The alpha strikes were just too much. Now they barely are returning and the OP already wants to get rid of them?

I mean if you give Rebels a meaningful alternative to regeneration, that keeps their pilotd in the meta by other means, maybe you could change regeneration, but even then, why? Because if you know how to handle it it's not really that good!

Edited by ForceM

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Regen ships die easily already

Predict where they will be and Focus them down. They aren't super manoeuvrable ships and figuring out roughly where they will be isn't all that hard to do.

I've had a well flown Poe or Corran take a walloping then run off and be back to full shields and giggling. Yeah it's annoying but it's usually because I made a mistake in planning or execution. For every time that that happens, there are five Poe's I've killed in one round of shooting.

Regen isnt a problem in my mind and I personaly dont see any need to restrict the number of shields that can be regened.

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I am trying to think of a better example of out flying someone than getting to regen more shields than you started with in a game. Unlike high evade aces regen is not a gift that keeps on giving. You need rounds not being shot at to make it work.

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Regen is a theme of Rebels. They don't have the tricks of scums, neither the agility of the Empire. The havey a lot of ship with 1 agility.

If you nerf the regen, you simply kill one faction.

That's pretty much it. If you nerf regen, more than half of the competitive Rebel options are gone.

What are they supposed to do? Their ships most often don't lend themselves to arc-dodging, they have 1-2 agility and evade is a very rare sight on rebel ships. in addition, their offense is not that much better so that you could just outdamage them for the win. So without regeneration, you are put on a clock, because your 1-2 agility ships will take damage when shot at, guaranteed. This is not the case for 3 agility ships with evade. They can be shot at a lot and will just dodge way more.

In addition, regenerating Rebel aces are all around 40 points. You can't take 2 of them plus Biggs or a third good ship. Empire has plenty of cheaper aces that are more capable on their own, plus leave you points to take 3 of them or Palpatine.

Worlds had only 25% Rebel participation too. Before Deadeye nerf this was even less on a lot of tournaments. Because regenerating Rebels were kept out of the meta. The alpha strikes were just too much. Now they barely are returning and the OP already wants to get rid of them?

I mean if you give Rebels a meaningful alternative to regeneration, that keeps their pilotd in the meta by other means, maybe you could change regeneration, but even then, why? Because if you know how to handle it it's not really that good!

I agree that regen definitely doesn't need to be nerfed, but I wanted to mention that in the right hands it is ridiculously strong. Even though there was a 25% rebel participation, they made up 50% of the top 4. One of those rebel players wasn't even a regen list. Faction is alot better off after the u-boat fix and that's great.

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We can nerf regen when rebels get more than 1 agility, higher PS and a bunch of other upgrade cards. While we're at it, let's get rid of the X7 title, palpatine and Zuckass.

 

I'll admit to being a huge fan of rebel regen, but I think there are other things that would need sorting now. Rebels are hardly competitive as it is, surprise at worlds notwithstanding. 

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Really you want to nerf rebel regen now?  How about enjoying the game and stop looking for things to nerf.  I dont post a lot but I am sick to death of the "lets change the game and nerf everything becasue I dont like something" threads.  Whey don't we just get rid of all upgrade cards and just play the pilot card with no extras.... no wait then we will get nerf this pilot or that ability. 

 

Figure it out and apply some critical thinking to overcome what is beating you.  I don't even play rebels and think this is ridiculous.

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