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JoeyBriefcase

A Change to PWT's

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I see that a lot of people moping about how mobile-firing arcs should have been implemented in turret ships from the start. I agree that PWT's get too much of an advantage when running away versus single arc ships, but there is an easily FAQ-able answer to this.

 

Ships with a primary weapon turret may not add their range combat bonus when attacking outside of their firing arc.

 

I think this would be an easy change that would be well appreciated by most. They still get a range combat bonus, but they have to play by everyone else's rules.

 

It's not a huge pitfall for turrets, they still get to shoot anywhere which is advantage enough. Plus, with HOTR out and the Upsilon coming up, our beloved PWT's will have plenty of upgrades to make up for this minor nerf.

 

Would any of you like this change implemented?

 

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What do you believe this nerf would achieve? That is to say, how would the game change for the better were it implemented?

I think it would bring more of a dog fighting feel back to the game since turrets can too easily arc dodge. Tie Fighters can hardly keep arc on them, same with T-65's and Z's

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So, what you're proposing is that out of arc shots would not receive an extra attack dice at range one, correct? That wouldn't have much of an effect, to be honest. Fleeing PWTs are so seldom at range one that this would almost never come into play.

 

Honestly, this just feels like giving everyone a very, very weak version of autothrusters, and autothrusters had very little effect on how PWTs flew during wave 6. The advantage of not facing return fire far outweighed any other possibility. Nowadays that decision might change a bit due to the incredible effect Palpatine has on an Ace's longevity when that ship is only facing 1-2 shots, but the Wave 4-Wave 6 Fat Turret Builds aren't being flown much anymore, so I don't have anything more than a gut feeling as to how that would play out.

 

 

EDIT: It occurs to me you might be suggesting that PWTs shouldn't get a range 3 defense bonus either. That probably wouldn't help much either, since the classic PWT depended mostly on non-dice based mitigation; Ysanne Isard, C-3P0*, the classic Falcon title and R2-D2 (crew) all avoided rolling dice to prevent damage.

 

 

*In case you've been fortunate enough to never faced a Falcon carrying 3P0, the idea was to guess that you would roll 0 evades. If you rolled a blank or a focus on your sole green die, you would add an evade result. If you rolled an evade result, well, you still avoided one damage.

Edited by Squark

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What do you believe this nerf would achieve? That is to say, how would the game change for the better were it implemented?

I think it would bring more of a dog fighting feel back to the game since turrets can too easily arc dodge. Tie Fighters can hardly keep arc on them, same with T-65's and Z's

 

I'm not sure how this would achieve that.

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Ahh, more salty tears over PWTs. Haven't we already figured out that they aren't that hard to shut down? Autothrusters, bombs, regen, Zuckuss and Palp; not to mention pilots like Fel or Corran that can solo a falcon...so many answers. PWTs are powerful, but every faction has a good counter for them. There's more balance now than I've seen in this game since Wave 1.

Edited by Futant420

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What do you believe this nerf would achieve? That is to say, how would the game change for the better were it implemented?

I think it would bring more of a dog fighting feel back to the game since turrets can too easily arc dodge. Tie Fighters can hardly keep arc on them, same with T-65's and Z's

 

It's already harder for a Decimator, Jumpmaster, K-wing, YT-1300 and YT-2400 to hit a defender with it's PWT and you want to make even harder...

If PWTs as they are, are creating you problems... fly better! 

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What do you believe this nerf would achieve? That is to say, how would the game change for the better were it implemented?

I think it would bring more of a dog fighting feel back to the game since turrets can too easily arc dodge. Tie Fighters can hardly keep arc on them, same with T-65's and Z's

So basically, you are wining about EU on big ships, and your idea to nerf that is denying PTW a range bonus? Not sure about your logic here.

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Regardless of what the PWT does to your view of the game, it would just make sure any ship with a PWT is used even less than it already is. And the change, as you wrote it, would change nothing to Super Dash, which is usually the large base turret people complain about the most.

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This would be a huge nerf for defending against autothruster ships. I can't tell you how many times I've gone after a pancake with Soontir Fel. With his evade and Autothrusters (and a focus), he can dance at range 2 out of arc, knowing the most he gives up is 1 damage. (0 if the emperor still lives). Closing to range 1 is dangerous, even though he'd like to attack with 4 dice, especially if they are mitigating 2 a turn with evade+3po. If the arc-dodger can now get a benefit from arc-dodging into range 1, that would really help it in this situation. Even moreso if it's Fenn.

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I see that a lot of people moping about how mobile-firing arcs should have been implemented in turret ships from the start. I agree that PWT's get too much of an advantage when running away versus single arc ships, but there is an easily FAQ-able answer to this.

 

Ships with a primary weapon turret may not add their range combat bonus when attacking outside of their firing arc.

...

 

Would any of you like this change implemented?

 

No thanks.

 

Turrets are fine as they are.  You may see people moping about turrets but that's because everyone who is fine with them doesn't have anything that needs to be said.  I mean if someone was complaining about the sun rising in the morning people may take notice but you don't see a lot from everyone else who is fine with the sun rising in the morning.

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You need to add another errata:

Turrets still grant range 3 bonuses.

 

Extra defense die is actually a function of the defender (See Talonbane Cobra text). So "their" range combat bonus is only the extra attack die at range 1. 

 

I'm talking about turrets. In fact, TLT, 'cause is the only one with range 3

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I'm firmly in the camp that PWTs should have been MFAs since inception.

But i don't think turrets need nerfing. Generally speaking if you're taking a PWT you're paying for it in other ways- low attack dice, low evade dice, worse dial, high point cost. That sort of thing.

So generally speaking, turrets are not OP and thus need no nerf per se.

Bit off topic btw - I also don't think large ships should get barrel roll, or at least their barrel roll should be along the 2 straight template. That to me IS a possible balance thing given how I've often I've seen large ships move essentially an entire ship length in a barrel roll to huge advantage to themselves.

Again... that one was off topic but its in the vein of the 'coulda woulda shoulda' theme of this topic.

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That's kind of my thought on the matter, are PWT overpowered, no. Are they a tiny bit too prevalent in tournaments, depends entirely on the ship, the YT-1300 hasn't really been in the meta for a long time, I think the HotR will bring it back in, so it was probably a tiny bit expensive before. The Jumpmaster is probably a bit too cheep.... 

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The Jumpmaster is probably a bit too cheep.... 

 

If it is, it's because of the combination of EPT and Torpedo slot on generics, not because of the PWT.

 

 

I can't recall anytime I've heard/seen justifiable complaints about a PWT with only 2 attack.  With the YT-2400 the complaints you'd hear usually had the Outrider behind them.  The Jumpmasters and K-Wings may see the open arc Primary (2) used but I can't say I've ever heard about it being anything close to broken or even all that powerful.

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The Jumpmaster is probably a bit too cheep.... 

 

If it is, it's because of the combination of EPT and Torpedo slot on generics, not because of the PWT.

 

 

Well that and the 1 white sloop... It's just a very manoeuvrable ship, and a tiny bit cheap. But it's not a PWT problem, it's a everything is a tiny bit too good for the points problem.

 

But yeah a 2 dice PWT is not particularly scary. TBH I'd never noticed that the YT-2400 even had one.. I had assumed it had a normal attack and then a Cannon that could be used 360 with the title... That's how often people have used the 2 dice PWT against me with it.

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

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Ahh, more salty tears over PWTs. Haven't we already figured out that they aren't that hard to shut down? Autothrusters, bombs, regen, Zuckuss and Palp; not to mention pilots like Fel or Corran that can solo a falcon...so many answers. PWTs are powerful, but every faction has a good counter for them. There's more balance now than I've seen in this game since Wave 1.

Thank you Futant420 for some positivity! I'm so sick of "nerf" posts!! Yes guilty of still clicking on this on but in all fairness I didn't know it was going to be another "nerf" topic.

Moral of this post

Please STOP posting about Nerfing stuff! Just learn how to fly against it if it's popular in your meta!

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