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Hotshot Copilot RAW

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"When attacking with your primary weapon, the defender must spend one focus token if able.

When defending, the attacker must spend one focus token if able"

Initially I did not read this carefully and responded to what I believed was the intent of the card: if you have a focus you have to spend it at some point during the attack or defense to satisfy the card. But read again: must spend if able.

If you're kanan, you are able to spend during the second step to reduce the attacker's dice pool. Therefore you must spend. Which you'd want to do anyway, so that's fine.

But say you roll your attack against the hot cop. You get a hit, an eyeball, and a blank. So you want to use your target lock and then spend the focus. Except having rolled the dice you meet the only criteria that the card lays out: you are now able to spend a focus token. Therefore you must spend the focus token. Only then can you reroll.

Because there's no timing window provided. You don't get to pick the order to resolve simultaneous effects because there are no simultaneous effects. There is only a requirement: must spend, if able. You are able to spend prior to rerolling. Therefore you must. It's an if-then, and you meet the if as soon as you roll.

Right? if not, why not?

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There's some debate on this in the rules section, and suffice it to say, it's unclear enough that I'm hoping for an FAQ on it ASAP.

 

I know how I interpret it, but I know others differ, and until there's official word (hopefully very soon given that it's premier-level legal now and Regionals are already starting, and it's definitely going to be popular...) I'm happy to be guided by whatever the TOs go with if my opinion differs from my opponent's.

 

(Personally, I think it's basically, if you have a focus token and aren't blocked from spending it, you can spend it on whatever you want, whenever you want, as long as you spend at least one at some point before your attack is over - but I'm of the opinion that you also can't choose to block yourself from spending it e.g. by using Accuracy Corrector.  Fortunately, that's not come up yet in any of my matches because I've never actually been shot at by someone using AC...)

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I just also wanna point out, it says spend, but not modify. Hence people thinking RAC, gunner, Vader will be able to make opponents turn eyes to evades to make the first shot miss are incorrect. You can spend the focus token and keep the results the same. Thus kinda nurturing the build.

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(Personally, I think it's basically, if you have a focus token and aren't blocked from spending it, you can spend it on whatever you want, whenever you want, as long as you spend at least one at some point before your attack is over - but I'm of the opinion that you also can't choose to block yourself from spending it e.g. by using Accuracy Corrector.  Fortunately, that's not come up yet in any of my matches because I've never actually been shot at by someone using AC...)

Agree with the first part but not the second. FAQ us, FFG! :)

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I just also wanna point out, it says spend, but not modify. Hence people thinking RAC, gunner, Vader will be able to make opponents turn eyes to evades to make the first shot miss are incorrect. You can spend the focus token and keep the results the same. Thus kinda nurturing the build.

No, you can't.  Assuming it works the way we think it does, you have to spend the token ON something.  Unless you have other ways to spend it, that means spending it on changing eyes to $things.  And when you spend the token to change eyes to $things, subsequently making the modification is not optional.

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I just also wanna point out, it says spend, but not modify. Hence people thinking RAC, gunner, Vader will be able to make opponents turn eyes to evades to make the first shot miss are incorrect. You can spend the focus token and keep the results the same. Thus kinda nurturing the build.

No, you can't.  Assuming it works the way we think it does, you have to spend the token ON something.  Unless you have other ways to spend it, that means spending it on changing eyes to $things.  And when you spend the token to change eyes to $things, subsequently making the modification is not optional.

You can spend a token to modify 0 dice.

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You can spend a token to modify 0 dice.

You're taking that out of context. You spend a focus token to turn all of your focus results into successes. The number of focus results that 'all' encompasses can be 0. There is no language anywhere in the rules implying you can spend a focus token to turn 0+ results.

When attacking or

defending, the ship may spend that token to change

all of its [eyeball] results to [blam] results (on attack dice) or

[evade] results (on defense dice).

Edited by nigeltastic

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I just also wanna point out, it says spend, but not modify. Hence people thinking RAC, gunner, Vader will be able to make opponents turn eyes to evades to make the first shot miss are incorrect. You can spend the focus token and keep the results the same. Thus kinda nurturing the build.

No, you can't.  Assuming it works the way we think it does, you have to spend the token ON something.  Unless you have other ways to spend it, that means spending it on changing eyes to $things.  And when you spend the token to change eyes to $things, subsequently making the modification is not optional.

You can spend a token to modify 0 dice.

 

You can spend a focus token to modify 0 dice IF you rolled 0 eyeballs.  If you rolled any eyeballs and you spend a focus token for its default effect, modifying them all is not optional.

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You can spend a token to modify 0 dice.

You're taking that out of context. You spend a focus token to turn all of your focus results into successes. The number of focus results that 'all' encompasses can be 0. There is no language anywhere in the rules implying you can spend a focus token to turn 0+ results.

When attacking or

defending, the ship may spend that token to change

all of its [eyeball] results to [blam] results (on attack dice) or

[evade] results (on defense dice).

 

 

Keyan Farlander and Garven Dries.

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I just also wanna point out, it says spend, but not modify. Hence people thinking RAC, gunner, Vader will be able to make opponents turn eyes to evades to make the first shot miss are incorrect. You can spend the focus token and keep the results the same. Thus kinda nurturing the build.

No, you can't.  Assuming it works the way we think it does, you have to spend the token ON something.  Unless you have other ways to spend it, that means spending it on changing eyes to $things.  And when you spend the token to change eyes to $things, subsequently making the modification is not optional.

You can spend a token to modify 0 dice.

That situation only comes up if you have no focus results. Spending the focus to modify your dice must convert focuses to hits or evades.

Garven is the most obvious example. Garven rolls Hit Hit Focus, and spends his focus turning his roll into Hit Hit Hit, modifying the single focus. Or Garven rolls Hit Hit Blank and spends focus to turn his roll into Hit Hit Blank, modifying 0 dice. Garven cannot however roll Hit Hit Focus and spend his focus to turn his roll into Hit Hit Focus and modify 0 dice. If the focus is spent, all the eyeballs must be converted, that can include 0 eyeballs.

From the rules reference:

Focus: The attacker can spend a focus token to change all of his Eye results to Hit results.

It is not like a target lock that lets you choose which dice to reroll. It is not a may effect. Modifying 0 dice only happens when you roll no focus results and still wish to spend the focus.

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You can spend a token to modify 0 dice.

You're taking that out of context. You spend a focus token to turn all of your focus results into successes. The number of focus results that 'all' encompasses can be 0. There is no language anywhere in the rules implying you can spend a focus token to turn 0+ results.

When attacking or

defending, the ship may spend that token to change

all of its [eyeball] results to [blam] results (on attack dice) or

[evade] results (on defense dice).

 

 

Keyan Farlander and Garven Dries.

 

Can use their abilities if they rolled 0 results, yes.

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o7F4TC4.png

 

You may not reroll anything if you spend a TL, but it says nothing about opting to not actually modify focus results.

Reason it allows you to spend a TL and not do anything is because what if you hit like a boss, but want to spend the TL for other "after you spend a TL" effects?

There is 0 benefit to spending a focus and not modifying a result though. The rule to spend it when you have no focus results is in case you have an after you spend a focus effect to remove the RNG of getting that effect.

You can have focus results and not modify them after spending a focus if you had another effect to spend the focus on which still shuts the card up. It does not say HOW you spend it, just that you spend it.

 

instead of arguing about how you remember the rules, go snip it out of the FAQ. Solves things a lot quicker and avoids pointless arguments. Any time i have a rules issue i go through the faq before i say ANYTHING because usually its resolved that quick without uttering a word.

Edited by Vineheart01

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I don't understand the "no timing specified" portion of the question.

 

"When attacking" is a timing specification.

 

So if, at any point when attacking, you can spend a focus token -- including on 0 dice, as people have correctly observed -- you must.  Aside from that "when attacking" language, you can do it whenever and for whatever else the rules permit.

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Now that's actually interesting, I kinda just always added in my head that line because the FAQ states the spending on a 0 focus roll. It is QUITE benifitial at times to not change an evade so that a gunner type ability only results in a single hit instead of multiple, IE Vader gunner decis. I wonder if this might be touched on in a future FAQ. Seems pretty open and shut, but they might allow this for this very reason later on. Still hurts to lose that focus token.

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I don't understand the "no timing specified" portion of the question.

 

"When attacking" is a timing specification.

 

So if, at any point when attacking, you can spend a focus token -- including on 0 dice, as people have correctly observed -- you must.  

 

Right, sorry. I meant no specific step within the attack timing chart is specified (well, technically the beginning and end are specified; after the target becomes the defender and before the attack is, you know, totally resolved. But other than that, no detail). And therefore, right, as soon as you can spend a token you are required to do so. 

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Right, sorry. I meant no specific step within the attack timing chart is specified (well, technically the beginning and end are specified; after the target becomes the defender and before the attack is, you know, totally resolved. But other than that, no detail). And therefore, right, as soon as you can spend a token you are required to do so. 

 

I'm not understanding how you're arriving at the conclusion of the last sentence.  (EDIT - Now I do.  See below.)

 

You can spend the focus token whenever you want to, as long as it's within the window of "when attacking."

 

EDIT - I think I do see the need for a FAQ, because I see why people are concluding that they must spend it as soon as possible ... because it's not like you can decide not to spend it, then (if you have no other opportunities) you get to keep it.

 

That's interesting.

 

Well, the intent is that there's no requirement that you spend it as early as you're able, so long as you spend it during the "when attacking" window.  Given the inability of the game to make you back up and spend it, if you decline an earlier opportunity, I don't know how exactly it will shake out.

 

Given that "the FFG way" is basically "easier is better, even if it's worse," I think there's a decent chance that you'll end up being right, and they'll just throw up their hands and say, "At first opportunity when attacking."  It's kinda too bad, because it's a very cool card when working as conceptualized, but it really is easier.

Edited by Jeff Wilder

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Now that's actually interesting, I kinda just always added in my head that line because the FAQ states the spending on a 0 focus roll. It is QUITE benifitial at times to not change an evade so that a gunner type ability only results in a single hit instead of multiple, IE Vader gunner decis. I wonder if this might be touched on in a future FAQ. Seems pretty open and shut, but they might allow this for this very reason later on. Still hurts to lose that focus token.

 

They'd really need to do more than just FAQ it. They'd need to rewrite the way that the default focus effect works. It would need to be worded like Target Lock, allowing you to change any results instead of all results.

 
RRG, pg 5:
 
"Focus: The attacker can spend a focus token to change all of his [focus] results to [hit] results."
 
"Target Lock: The attacker can spend a target lock he has on the defender to reroll any number of his attack dice."

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Right, sorry. I meant no specific step within the attack timing chart is specified (well, technically the beginning and end are specified; after the target becomes the defender and before the attack is, you know, totally resolved. But other than that, no detail). And therefore, right, as soon as you can spend a token you are required to do so. 

 

I'm not understanding how you're arriving at the conclusion of the last sentence.  (EDIT - Now I do.  See below.)

 

You can spend the focus token whenever you want to, as long as it's within the window of "when attacking."

 

EDIT - I think I do see the need for a FAQ, because I see why people are concluding that they must spend it as soon as possible ... because it's not like you can decide not to spend it, then (if you have no other opportunities) you get to keep it.

 

That's interesting.

 

Well, the intent is that there's no requirement that you spend it as early as you're able, so long as you spend it during the "when attacking" window.  Given the inability of the game to make you back up and spend it, if you decline an earlier opportunity, I don't know how exactly it will shake out.

 

Given that "the FFG way" is basically "easier is better, even if it's worse," I think there's a decent chance that you'll end up being right, and they'll just throw up their hands and say, "At first opportunity when attacking."  It's kinda too bad, because it's a very cool card when working as conceptualized, but it really is easier.

 

It doesnt make sense "at first opportunity" though, because if you have a focus and a TL and roll blank blank blank, your first opportunity to spend the focus is right now, converting 0 dice. Then you spend the TL and roll eye eye hit? That makes no sense.

 

They just need to FAQ it saying "During Modify Attack Dice step" or "During Modify Defense Dice step". You would think FFG would have learned by now  :rolleyes:

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It doesnt make sense "at first opportunity" though, because if you have a focus and a TL and roll blank blank blank, your first opportunity to spend the focus is right now, converting 0 dice. Then you spend the TL and roll eye eye hit? That makes no sense.

 

That's because it's not how it's intended.

 

As for FFG "learning by now," I'm not one to leap to their defense in every case without justification (HINT: that's an understatement), but in cases like this, it's really quite difficult to look for the brokenness of something when you absolutely know how it'd intended, and how it's intended makes perfect sense to you.  IMO, it's to FFG's credit that weird paradoxical corner cases like this don't happen much more often than they do.

 

It's the same sense of wonder I feel that I almost never pass a traffic accident on my way home from work.  It's like, "How do people not have more wrecks?!"

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So when you spend a focus you change all eye results to hit/evades. It does not matter if the focus is currently on the die or not. What I mean by that is this: you attack a ship with Hotcop, roll blank, hit, focus. Spend focus because Hotcop told you to so now you have hit, hit,blank. You decide to spend the TL and reroll the blank and get a focus. Since you already spent the focus that immediately becomes a hit. So basically once you spend the focus its like you have a mandatory glitterstim for the rest of that attack/defense.

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So when you spend a focus you change all eye results to hit/evades. It does not matter if the focus is currently on the die or not. What I mean by that is this: you attack a ship with Hotcop, roll blank, hit, focus. Spend focus because Hotcop told you to so now you have hit, hit,blank. You decide to spend the TL and reroll the blank and get a focus. Since you already spent the focus that immediately becomes a hit. So basically once you spend the focus its like you have a mandatory glitterstim for the rest of that attack/defense.

 

Definitely untrue. That would make R4 Agromech way better than it is.

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So when you spend a focus you change all eye results to hit/evades. It does not matter if the focus is currently on the die or not. What I mean by that is this: you attack a ship with Hotcop, roll blank, hit, focus. Spend focus because Hotcop told you to so now you have hit, hit,blank. You decide to spend the TL and reroll the blank and get a focus. Since you already spent the focus that immediately becomes a hit. So basically once you spend the focus its like you have a mandatory glitterstim for the rest of that attack/defense.

 

Definitely untrue. That would make R4 Agromech way better than it is.

That may be the case but it does not say spend a focus to change all currently displayed focus results to hit/evades. It says all. This has really never come up because before there has never been a reason to spend the focus before rerolling.

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So when you spend a focus you change all eye results to hit/evades. It does not matter if the focus is currently on the die or not. What I mean by that is this: you attack a ship with Hotcop, roll blank, hit, focus. Spend focus because Hotcop told you to so now you have hit, hit,blank. You decide to spend the TL and reroll the blank and get a focus. Since you already spent the focus that immediately becomes a hit. So basically once you spend the focus its like you have a mandatory glitterstim for the rest of that attack/defense.

 

Definitely untrue. That would make R4 Agromech way better than it is.

That may be the case but it does not say spend a focus to change all currently displayed focus results to hit/evades. It says all. This has really never come up because before there has never been a reason to spend the focus before rerolling.

 

 

there has been, and that card is R4 Agromech. Spend, convert focus, get a Target Lock, use the Target Lock to reroll, no joy if you reroll into eyeballs.

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