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Schu81

Rebels - not allowed to win worlds again?

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This would be rather different if Hotr was allowed.

Not convinced HOTR is going to make a massive difference. It has some nice toys but nothing meta-breaking. Rey is the best Falcon pilot IMO but the tricks she can pull with Finn in the Falcon are not a million miles away from what you can do with a Ghost with Hera crew and a turret (probably for cheaper).

Some of the new T70 pilots are interesting, but again, I don't see them bringing anything fundamentally new and exciting to rebel lists. Some of the upgrades cards are quite nice and will see some use but again, they are improvements to existing tactics rather than enablers of whole new strategies.

I am looking forward to HOTR and I will certainly be picking up a copy (if I do not get one for Christmas) but I don't see it shaking up the meta the way the Imperial Veterans (especially the Defender /x7 title) has done for Imps.

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let people adjust to the boogeyman of torpscouts being dead and we'll see rebels in droves again

 

not that I've ever stopped

 

14446188_10157464826710142_5465799722906

 

Sorry, but I have to say "no" as well. Given that the Rebels have been given (in my opinion) one of the best ships in the game so far, the ARC-170, with a crazy ability to regenerate shields with all of those green moves (not to mention adding Nien Nunb) & R2-D2, and all kinds of other combos I really don't see Rebels being neglected at all.

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I did not check the math but i think he could put 3 damages on a single defender per turn, at least.

Best way to avoid that should be allow 1 hit on Chewie's first attack, saving tokens for tlt if possible

Edited by LouisCypher

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I did not check the math but i think he could put 3 damages on a single defender per turn, at least.

Best way to avoid that should be allow 1 hit on Chewie's first attack, saving tokens for tlt if possible

That's the thing. They save their tokens for defense and take garbage shots. They spend it on attacks and get tore up by the tlt. The favored match up for this list is defenders because he just out toughs them. His last game against Faan playing dengaroo he just ignored manaroo and put everything into dengar. Lost both Y's but had chewie with all his hull left against manaroo because he can out tough the list.

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let people adjust to the boogeyman of torpscouts being dead and we'll see rebels in droves again

 

not that I've ever stopped

 

14446188_10157464826710142_5465799722906

 

Sorry, but I have to say "no" as well. Given that the Rebels have been given (in my opinion) one of the best ships in the game so far, the ARC-170, with a crazy ability to regenerate shields with all of those green moves (not to mention adding Nien Nunb) & R2-D2, and all kinds of other combos I really don't see Rebels being neglected at all.

Honestly, I think regen might be somewhat overrated and I doubt it will have the impact people are hoping for. It has largely stayed the same (1 shield per turn) but there currently is way more damage floating around than 2 waves ago.

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Regenerating one shield a turn doesn't sound like much, but when you're talking about chasing down ships that have disengaged (while still fighting others) it can quickly add up.

 

Norra Wexley's ability with PtL/R2D2 is a very resilient combo.  Regen Poe struggled to come with Triple Scouts, but should return to the mix now Deadeye's been made small ship only and Miranda is very effective as well.

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Eh, have yet to see anything even remotely impressive

Apart from vcx spam, nothing really exceeds what youre used to seeing from wave 5 super dashes and phantoms

Biggest thing to come out of worlds is fearless tg kath which looks scary but only because of the player running it. **** aint easy to bring to bear

Though norra does hit harder than your typical regen, as does homing missile miranda

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Rey is a monster, and she will change the meta. She's a different proposition to the ghost, as two green with rerolls can deflect a whole lot of damage. I managed one point of damage against her in two jousts with my Xs last time I faced her. A extreme case, but her and Finn change the ship completely. 

 

Poe loves the new tech, and from the little I've tested him at 43/44pts, he's a whole new ship with predator/lw and PA. 

So my answer to the OP would be; it's simply a matter of timing of releases. we're at a point when the imperial upgrades have had time to be mastered and before the corresponding rebel upgrades are legal. 

 

Luck of the draw, is all.

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Rey is a monster, and she will change the meta. She's a different proposition to the ghost, as two green with rerolls can deflect a whole lot of damage. I managed one point of damage against her in two jousts with my Xs last time I faced her. A extreme case, but her and Finn change the ship completely. 

 

 

I love Rey, she's my regional ship this year and I think she's very good. Will she change the meta - no. She doesn't really beat defenders - your example notwithstanding, and suffers from much of the same reason Fat Han isn't meta defining any more. I think she's good, but I don't think she's definingly good.

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if you really cross your eyes, finn rey is mostly just a lesser VCX with two/three extra agility depending on how the re-rolls go

 

I know I keep harping on the VCX, but that thing is really freaking scary and I'm surprised we've seen as little of it as we have

 

 

also hate it because my arcs fly gunner and tailgunner and it's the ONLY **** THING they don't trigger against (yeah VT-49, but the VT-49 is so expensive and wimpy in comparison that it really doesn't matter)

Edited by ficklegreendice

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This would be rather different if Hotr was allowed.

Not convinced HOTR is going to make a massive difference. It has some nice toys but nothing meta-breaking. Rey is the best Falcon pilot IMO but the tricks she can pull with Finn in the Falcon are not a million miles away from what you can do with a Ghost with Hera crew and a turret (probably for cheaper).

 

We had that discussion in another Thread, and while i was not convinced at first, people there told me Rey was a whole level above Lothals anf Dash, and after proxying it forr quite a bit inoficially now, i can only agree. Rey is much more durable than a Ghost, since she has the equal of 2 Defense dice for anything in front, and she also has 4 Attack dice on front with Finn basically. Granted the dice modification is not the best, but she is so **** maneuvrable and hard to kill it's not even funny. Kanan Jarrus just makes her ridiculously hard to pin down because she will always have her whole dial to choose from.

 

She can joust quite well and when you don't expect it, she will just arc-dodge all of a sudden, or pound something into oblivion with an effective 5-dice attack. The flexibility of this makes her quite superior to any cheap Ghost.

 

The one thing i consider pretty much equal in power level would be a fully loaded TLT Kanan Jarrus with Phantom docked and Biggs protection. But as we can see this is one of the few Rebel lists that still does quite well at worlds. This comes as no surprise to me, I have flown this a lot under Scout Meta and did very well on several local tournaments with it. Kanan with Phantom is however in the 70 point range, and therefore a comparison is not unfavorable for Rey even there.

 

Super Dash comes in at about the same cost, and i think he has a little edge in maneuvrability over Rey, and is better at longer range, but he has his obvious disadvantages too. Lower PS, Donut Hole, very allergic to stress inducers, actually lower durability than Rey. Super Dash is still a good ship, but i don't know who comes out on top, Rey or him in this new meta.

 

I am not sure yet what ship should be flying alongside Rey yet for the remaining 41 points. Regen Norra Wexley as a huge threat comes to mind, Miranda or a pretty loaded Poe. But also Support ships (Esege, Dutch, Cracken, Kyle Katarn)  that can give her focus, TL or bonus actions are a very valid strategy, just as Stress ships are. A Braylen/Stresshog that puts a ton of stress on the opponent and makes outmaneuvering their ships a tad easier is a welcome sight too.

 

I am very convinced that Fat Rey... (sorry for that name... poor thing) would have made a big big difference in not only Rebel list participation but also in total Rebel lists making the cut. Rey is nothing to sneeze at and we will see that in the near future

Edited by ForceM

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Eh, have yet to see anything even remotely impressive

Apart from vcx spam, nothing really exceeds what youre used to seeing from wave 5 super dashes and phantoms

Biggest thing to come out of worlds is fearless tg kath which looks scary but only because of the player running it. **** aint easy to bring to bear

Though norra does hit harder than your typical regen, as does homing missile miranda

Dengar, Party Bus, Plasma torps in general, Homing Missile Miranda, Concussion Missile Bossk and now Quckdraw. All of that is stuff I see at least ssemi-regularly and that hits harder than wave 5 stuff.

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I like to think of her in comparison to one of ye torp scouts of old...

 

- Same white s-loop, different length of maneuver, two choices instead of one

- Same 4-dice attack, but with rerolls and range one up to 5. and infinite ammo

- Same backup pwt for swatting big lumbering ships. 

- much better defence, in both health and dice, imo (green rerolls are a serious thing)

- table-topping ps 10 is both possible and probable

- Space for EU, unlike scout wedded to GC

- Much more stress resistant (easy to shed, and still gets attack and defence mods while stressed, and can still fire at 4 red dice while stressed)

- with Kanan on board, she has what has to be the best dial in the entire game.

 

Sure, she should be **** good, because of her high price, but I just want to frame her in relation to a ship people know (and dread), and to point out that she completely surpasses it in every category. 

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I like to think of her in comparison to one of ye torp scouts of old...

 

- Same white s-loop, different length of maneuver, two choices instead of one

- Same 4-dice attack, but with rerolls and range one up to 5. and infinite ammo

- Same backup pwt for swatting big lumbering ships. 

- much better defence, in both health and dice, imo (green rerolls are a serious thing)

- table-topping ps 10 is both possible and probable

- Space for EU, unlike scout wedded to GC

- Much more stress resistant (easy to shed, and still gets attack and defence mods while stressed, and can still fire at 4 red dice while stressed)

- with Kanan on board, she has what has to be the best dial in the entire game.

 

Sure, she should be **** good, because of her high price, but I just want to frame her in relation to a ship people know (and dread), and to point out that she completely surpasses it in every category. 

 

for almost double the price, she better surpass something

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Super Dash comes in at about the same cost, and i think he has a little edge in maneuvrability over Rey, and is better at longer range, but he has his obvious disadvantages too. Lower PS, Donut Hole, very allergic to stress inducers, actually lower durability than Rey. Super Dash is still a good ship, but i don't know who comes out on top, Rey or him in this new meta.

 

I am not sure yet what ship should be flying alongside Rey yet for the remaining 41 points. Regen Norra Wexley as a huge threat comes to mind, Miranda or a pretty loaded Poe. But also Support ships (Esege, Dutch, Cracken, Kyle Katarn)  that can give her focus, TL or bonus actions are a very valid strategy, just as Stress ships are. A Braylen/Stresshog that puts a ton of stress on the opponent and makes outmaneuvering their ships a tad easier is a welcome sight too.

 

 

Rey is better than Dash, at least 1-1. My Rey soloed a very experienced Dash/Ghost list after Norra died very early due to pilot error. There was some luck involved, but she is very moveable and surprisingly tanky. She moves after Dash with a boost and a turret, so she can avoid him rather well.

 

Is she a better all-rounder? I don't know, I would probably say about even, but Dash is beginning to lose the PS battle quite badly now, with Dengar, Fenn, and a lot of PS8 aces out there with Autothrusters. I'm not convinced either is the best when it comes to the overall meta, especially vs defenders, swarms and imp aces.

 

Wingman - tried Poe, it was OK. I've settled on Norra for my regionals. A support ship is nice, but Rey is actually lacking the dice modifications, especially as you are often boosting to arc-dodge or get the arc, so she CAN strugge to get damage through. Unlike Dengaroo, you only attack once, and you still suffer when focus fired on. I think another hard hitter is important, and both Norra and Rey are good in the end game, so if you can put enough damage through, you should be in with a good chance once you lose a ship.

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