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State of the meta?

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So what is your opinion on the state of the meta?

For myself (primarily a Rebel player), it seems balance has been restored to the force.

 

While there are definitely better ships than others, the factions seemed evenly matched for the most part. There are a variety of builds out there that can be considered top level builds.

I see right now as a good state for X-Wing to be in. While I have minor gripes, everything seems to be meshing fairly well.

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So what is your opinion on the state of the meta?

For myself (primarily a Rebel player), it seems balance has been restored to the force.

 

While there are definitely better ships than others, the factions seemed evenly matched for the most part. There are a variety of builds out there that can be considered top level builds.

I see right now as a good state for X-Wing to be in. While I have minor gripes, everything seems to be meshing fairly well.

X-Wing would be in a good state if the HWK swarm wasn't so OP still.

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Overall I think the meta is rather unknown right now, which is a good thing! Lots of things seem viable at the moment! I think x7 Defenders are really the only thing that have truly established themselves as meta defining ships at the moment.

 

Part of the reason for this of course is a combination of worlds coming up - resulting in a lot of top players being more secretive with what they're playing -, the recent FAQ, and multiple releases over the past 3 months. After worlds and wave 10 land, the meta will start to settle, and inevitably some list or other will rise to the top and people won't be happy again. It's just the cycle of things.

 

Having wave 10 drop right after worlds should keep things fresh for a little while at least, Worlds won't really have the lasting effect on the meta that it normally would since Heroes and wave 10 will immediately change things.

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The meta is in a beautiful state of flux - and Worlds starts TODAY.

What a time to be in X-Wing. I'm jealous of people just joining. They are seeing the game at it's most diverse and forgiving.

No one is saying, "Don't play Rebels, competitively" or "Just buy three of these sh*tty toilet seats and you can win a tourney tomorrow"

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Meta is about how to beat x/7 Defenders.

My impressions are that we are already past that point. Meta has already adapted to Defenders, as we have seen in the recent UK events.

So while Defenders are still incredibly solid, they will face a lot of ships and tools which they really don't like to see at all. Such as Party Bus, Bump master, Fenn Rau, Old Teroch, Cannot Jax, TIE Phantoms, Kwings with missiles or bombs, Crack shots, Jukes etc.

All these things were already well represented at the UK Team Championships, and I expect that to be also the case for worlds.

Therefore I don't expect Defenders to pull any kind of dominating performance. There will be a few in the top cut for sure, but not many, and they will likely loose in the cut.

So I think meta is currently about how to beat the anti-defender meta (but also still beat the Defenders themselves..)

 

UKTC is not a standard meta I don't think.  You can afford to be a bit more experimental when you know you're going to have at least some flexibility to choose your targets.

 

(And your last point... that's true of every meta - you have to know how to beat the bugbears without losing to other things that beat the bugbears.  That's what meta-play is all about; designing your list to best cope with what's most likely to be showing up on the day.)

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Meta is about how to beat x/7 Defenders.

My impressions are that we are already past that point. Meta has already adapted to Defenders, as we have seen in the recent UK events... (...)

Nope, we are just in that point :) I don't say they are unbeatable, or there is only one way to handle them. It's just every competitive player while building tournament rooster thinks about Defenders. Not abut TLT, not about stress, not about Ion, not about arc doing, not about alpha strike.... They think how to beat x/7 Defenders. Rest is just an addition.

Defenders are so strong that no matter what you bring to the table they have upper hand. Yet they influence Meta in lighter way than Torp Scouts, as they don't kick anything particular out of the play as opposed to Scouts killed regen rebels. They are just overall better than anything else.

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After worlds and wave 10 land, the meta will start to settle, and inevitably some list or other will rise to the top and people won't be happy again. It's just the cycle of things.

Heed these wise words. evcameron know the way of this world.

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I'd like to see the top contenders at the end, but it still feels like there are just a few list types out there.  Sure, there might be some slight variety, but it seems like there are only 3-5 top builds that keep getting played.  I'll be happy if I am wrong, but let's see the top 16 results and see how much variety there is.  

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Well, on this we disagree. Defenders are very solid, but they can get destroyed if the opposing squad is built for it. Phantoms tend to kill Defenders pretty good. Kwings with missiles and bombs can utterly annihilate them.

Defenders are good, but can be hated out pretty well. So no, they are not stronger than everything else, just more well-rounded..

Your disagreement is largely invalid, as available data overwhelmingly points in one direction, despite what one event may have showcased.

 

The fact that you have to build lists specifically to "hate them out" is indicative of that, as well.

Edited by ArbitraryNerd

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Meta is about how to beat x/7 Defenders.

My impressions are that we are already past that point. Meta has already adapted to Defenders, as we have seen in the recent UK events... (...)

Nope, we are just in that point :) I don't say they are unbeatable, or there is only one way to handle them. It's just every competitive player while building tournament rooster thinks about Defenders. Not abut TLT, not about stress, not about Ion, not about arc doing, not about alpha strike.... They think how to beat x/7 Defenders. Rest is just an addition.

Defenders are so strong that no matter what you bring to the table they have upper hand. Yet they influence Meta in lighter way than Torp Scouts, as they don't kick anything particular out of the play as opposed to Scouts killed regen rebels. They are just overall better than anything else.

 

 

But is that because we are coming out of the Torp Scout meta, so TLT, Stress, Ion and other lists haven't bounced back from being suppressed by Torps? Whereas X7s worked fine in the Torp Scout meta?

Edited by Rodent Mastermind

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Meta is about how to beat x/7 Defenders.

My impressions are that we are already past that point. Meta has already adapted to Defenders, as we have seen in the recent UK events... (...)

Nope, we are just in that point :) I don't say they are unbeatable, or there is only one way to handle them. It's just every competitive player while building tournament rooster thinks about Defenders. Not abut TLT, not about stress, not about Ion, not about arc doing, not about alpha strike.... They think how to beat x/7 Defenders. Rest is just an addition.

Defenders are so strong that no matter what you bring to the table they have upper hand. Yet they influence Meta in lighter way than Torp Scouts, as they don't kick anything particular out of the play as opposed to Scouts killed regen rebels. They are just overall better than anything else.

 

 

But is that because we are coming out of the Torp Scout meta, so TLT, Stress, Ion and other lists haven't bounced back from being suppressed by Torps? Whereas X7s worked fine in the Torp Scout meta?

 

x7s handle a lot of these things fine. They are hard to hit with ion weapons. They can dodge some TLT shots and have the potential to outdamage them (a relatively even matchup, though). They perform suprisingly well when stressed, since their defense doesn't tank at all, the white 4k makes up for the loss of turning ability and all they lose is damage. What is dangerous to them is regen, since any rebel regen ship will outlast a Defender one on one and be worth more.

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So I want to talk about Imperial meta for a second.

 

 

 

First, lets talk about a ship that is NOT a part of the meta. The Tie/SF.

 

Yes, the Tie/SF hasn't been on the table for a long time, but it also hasn't seen competitive use NEARLY as much as its 3 other wave 9 counterparts. So, a perfectly rational conclusion is that the Tie/SF is lacking in some way.

 

 

Now, this could be for a number of reasons. It could be that a) the current popular options for imperials are so far ahead of the normal power curve that the Tie/SF, even if it is on the power curve, is overshadowed, b) The Tie/SF is below the power curve, c) the Tie/SF is in need of more testing, or d)the Tie/SF is in need of more synergistic options for its upgrade slots.

 

 

I think the most likely case is case "a". There aren't many small base ships that are below 3 agility that are seeing play by Imperials in general due to the fact that their top line lists which compose of 3+ agility and (often) Palp support are so far superior to anything else. This is largely due to the "Palp, autothrusters, /x7" effect. All supremely influential cards for Imperials, they dominate Imperial listbuilding to a point that it is crippling to the faction. Every single one of these upgrades need one thing to be as effective as possible- 3+ agility ships. Tie/SF does not have that 3 agility, so until something is done about- and this is entirely my opinion- at least 2 of those 3 upgrades I listed, Tie/SFs will not see top tables.

 

 

But oh man do I hope worlds proves me wrong.

 

But it wont. :( At least 1 copy of Tie/x7, Palp or autothrusters will be in every single Imperial list that places in the top half of the tournament.

Edited by Kdubb

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Meta is about how to beat x/7 Defenders.

My impressions are that we are already past that point. Meta has already adapted to Defenders, as we have seen in the recent UK events.

So while Defenders are still incredibly solid, they will face a lot of ships and tools which they really don't like to see at all. Such as Party Bus, Bump master, Fenn Rau, Old Teroch, Cannot Jax, TIE Phantoms, Kwings with missiles or bombs, Crack shots, Jukes etc.

All these things were already well represented at the UK Team Championships, and I expect that to be also the case for worlds.

 

 

I mean, that's a whole long list... but somehow there a so many Scum ships and OTHER Imperials in this list of things to beat X7.

Edited by Schu81

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So I want to talk about Imperial meta for a second.

 

 

 

First, lets talk about a ship that is NOT a part of the meta. The Tie/SF.

 

Yes, the Tie/SF hasn't been on the table for a long time, but it also hasn't seen competitive use NEARLY as much as its 3 other wave 9 counterparts. So, a perfectly rational conclusion is that the Tie/SF is lacking in some way.

 

 

Now, this could be for a number of reasons. It could be that a) the current popular options for imperials are so far ahead of the normal power curve that the Tie/SF, even if it is on the power curve, is overshadowed, b) The Tie/SF is below the power curve, c) the Tie/SF is in need of more testing, or d)the Tie/SF is in need of more synergistic options for its upgrade slots.

 

 

I think the most likely case is case "a". There aren't many small base ships that are below 3 agility that are seeing play by Imperials in general due to the fact that their top line lists which compose of 3+ agility and (often) Palp support are so far superior to anything else. This is largely due to the "Palp, autothrusters, /x7" effect. All supremely influential cards for Imperials, they dominate Imperial listbuilding to a point that it is crippling to the faction. Every single one of these upgrades need one thing to be as effective as possible- 3+ agility ships. Tie/SF does not have that 3 agility, so until something is done about- and this is entirely my opinion- at least 2 of those 3 upgrades I listed, Tie/SFs will not see top tables.

 

 

But oh man do I hope worlds proves me wrong.

 

But it wont. :( At least 1 copy of Tie/x7, Palp or autothrusters will be in every single Imperial list that places in the top half of the tournament.

 

x7 defenders are just much better, in generic roles, than TIE/SFs. Granted Quickdraw and Backdraft both have some very interesting abilities but tooling them up to use these abilities are just not cost efficient compared to a baseline x7 defender or even x7 Ryads, Vess and Maarek.

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So I want to talk about Imperial meta for a second.

 

 

 

First, lets talk about a ship that is NOT a part of the meta. The Tie/SF.

 

Yes, the Tie/SF hasn't been on the table for a long time, but it also hasn't seen competitive use NEARLY as much as its 3 other wave 9 counterparts. So, a perfectly rational conclusion is that the Tie/SF is lacking in some way.

 

 

Now, this could be for a number of reasons. It could be that a) the current popular options for imperials are so far ahead of the normal power curve that the Tie/SF, even if it is on the power curve, is overshadowed, b) The Tie/SF is below the power curve, c) the Tie/SF is in need of more testing, or d)the Tie/SF is in need of more synergistic options for its upgrade slots.

 

 

I think the most likely case is case "a". There aren't many small base ships that are below 3 agility that are seeing play by Imperials in general due to the fact that their top line lists which compose of 3+ agility and (often) Palp support are so far superior to anything else. This is largely due to the "Palp, autothrusters, /x7" effect. All supremely influential cards for Imperials, they dominate Imperial listbuilding to a point that it is crippling to the faction. Every single one of these upgrades need one thing to be as effective as possible- 3+ agility ships. Tie/SF does not have that 3 agility, so until something is done about- and this is entirely my opinion- at least 2 of those 3 upgrades I listed, Tie/SFs will not see top tables.

 

 

But oh man do I hope worlds proves me wrong.

 

But it wont. :( At least 1 copy of Tie/x7, Palp or autothrusters will be in every single Imperial list that places in the top half of the tournament.

 

x7 defenders are just much better, in generic roles, than TIE/SFs. Granted Quickdraw and Backdraft both have some very interesting abilities but tooling them up to use these abilities are just not cost efficient compared to a baseline x7 defender or even x7 Ryads, Vess and Maarek.

 

 

I wouldn't call them very interesting, more like nice gimmicks.

 

Quickdraw has an ability that you have to trigger with doing damage to yourself or that gets triggered when the enemy decides to shoot her. Both are giant drawbacks that can be exploited by the enemy. Not to mention spending extra points to do damage to yourself to trigger your ability maybe 2 times.

Backdraft needs to point its back to the enemy to use his ability. That might come into play at some point but you have to set it up and the enemy has the option to dodge it. And that has to be done with a sub par dial.

Meanwhile the Defenders get lower PS but abilities that are far superior, a better dial (white k-turn), and higher survivability (one more green and an evade token is huge!). No wonder we probably won't see them in competitive.

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IMO the current meta is about answering 2 simple questions:

Does my list contain any x7 Defenders?

Does my list have a answer to x7 Defenders?

If the answer to both is 'no', then it probably not going to be a very competitive list, regardless of how well it performs against everything else.

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