Adjacent to Blocking Terrain

[Cremate 539]

You can only draw line of sight into the blocking space you target, not through the other blocking spaces the target figure (or any other figure) occupies. You thus need to target the blocking space you "see", because you can't draw line of sight through blocking spaces, only into them (if a figure or object you are targeting or interacting with is there) - or out of them if you're attacking from a blocking space to non-blocking space.

See, my first instinct was that this would likely be literal interpretation in the rules, but when I reread them they do actually just say that "line of sight can be traced to that figure" and nothing about it being limited to that specific space.

It seems that it wasn't even considered how this would work for bigger figures rather than those only taking up a single space, as this passage wasn't in the RRG for massive figures and instead added as an afterthought in the FAQ. I don't see, based on the current written rules material, that there is any clear call on the issue - or rather that you could easily argue it either way.

With the new maps just having been rotated into tournaments and with the World Championship starting on Saturday, I suspect this issue will pop up soon enough (what with lists with large massive units and lists with blast both being popular at the moment).

Edited November 3, 2016 by Cremate

[DerBaer 1,223]

 

The gist of it is that "If a figure with mobile occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure." does not allow you to draw line of sight through other blocking spaces.

A related question. What if it is a large figure (e.g. a Nexu, Bantha, or AT-ST) with Mobile or Massive is overlapping a blocking terrain. You would normally be able to choose which of the spaces a figure is occupying you target, for LoS purposes, blast, etc., but what if you want to target a space that is beyond the blocking terrain it is overlapping (and you would need to trace LoS through the blocking space underneath the figure)?

 

It's not always about spaces. From the RRG:

Line of sight

A figure does not block line of sight to itself. The target figure also does not block line of sight.

 

Massive

If a Massive figure occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Mobile

If a figure with mobile occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Let's assume there are four spaces with blocking Terrain (red). A Bantha (B) is standing on all four of them.

 

[_][T][_][_][_]

[B][_][_]

[_][_]

[_][_][_][_][_]

[_][H][_][_][_]

 

 

A Heavy Stormtrooper (H) wants to shoot the Bantha (B) and blast the Tusken (T). Is the Heavy Stormtrooper (H) able to draw line of sight to the space in line 2 column 2 (underlined)?

 

By the rules given, I would say he can.

Edited November 3, 2016 by DerBaer

[gran_orco 41]

 

 

The gist of it is that "If a figure with mobile occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure." does not allow you to draw line of sight through other blocking spaces.

A related question. What if it is a large figure (e.g. a Nexu, Bantha, or AT-ST) with Mobile or Massive is overlapping a blocking terrain. You would normally be able to choose which of the spaces a figure is occupying you target, for LoS purposes, blast, etc., but what if you want to target a space that is beyond the blocking terrain it is overlapping (and you would need to trace LoS through the blocking space underneath the figure)?

 

It's not always about spaces. From the RRG:

Line of sight

A figure does not block line of sight to itself. The target figure also does not block line of sight.

 

Massive

If a Massive figure occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Mobile

If a figure with mobile occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Let's assume there are four spaces with blocking Terrain (red). A Bantha (B) is standing on all four of them.

 

[_][T][_][_][_]

[B][_][_]

[_][_]

[_][_][_][_][_]

[_][H][_][_][_]

 

 

A Heavy Stormtrooper (H) wants to shoot the Bantha (B) and blast the Tusken (T). Is the Heavy Stormtrooper (H) able to draw line of sight to the space in line 2 column 2 (underlined)?

 

By the rules given, I would say he can.

 

This example is not needed. Blast affects adjacent figures, not adjacent spaces, so even firing to the closer space, the tusken can be affected by the blast.

[a1bert 4,115]

In that example the attacker could draw line of sight to row 2 column 1 and would not need to wonder.

[Cremate 539]

 

 

The gist of it is that "If a figure with mobile occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure." does not allow you to draw line of sight through other blocking spaces.

A related question. What if it is a large figure (e.g. a Nexu, Bantha, or AT-ST) with Mobile or Massive is overlapping a blocking terrain. You would normally be able to choose which of the spaces a figure is occupying you target, for LoS purposes, blast, etc., but what if you want to target a space that is beyond the blocking terrain it is overlapping (and you would need to trace LoS through the blocking space underneath the figure)?

 

It's not always about spaces. From the RRG:

Line of sight

A figure does not block line of sight to itself. The target figure also does not block line of sight.

 

Massive

If a Massive figure occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Mobile

If a figure with mobile occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Let's assume there are four spaces with blocking Terrain (red). A Bantha (B) is standing on all four of them.

 

[_][T][_][_][_]

[B][_][_]

[_][_]

[_][_][_][_][_]

[_][H][_][_][_]

 

 

A Heavy Stormtrooper (H) wants to shoot the Bantha (B) and blast the Tusken (T). Is the Heavy Stormtrooper (H) able to draw line of sight to the space in line 2 column 2 (underlined)?

 

By the rules given, I would say he can.

 

I would agree, but there is one problem with your example. That blast could be achieved regardless of what the call on blocking terrain is, by targeting the top left black B for the attack.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Cremate

[a1bert 4,115]

This example is not needed. Blast affects adjacent figures, not adjacent spaces, so even firing to the closer space, the tusken can be affected by the blast.

See the rules, Blast affects figures and objects adjacent to the targeted space (NOT targeted figure).

[gran_orco 41]

 

This example is not needed. Blast affects adjacent figures, not adjacent spaces, so even firing to the closer space, the tusken can be affected by the blast.

See the rules, Blast affects figures and objects adjacent to the targeted space (NOT targeted figure).

 

Cough! Cough! What a fumble! Sorry!

[Cremate 539]

 

This example is not needed. Blast affects adjacent figures, not adjacent spaces, so even firing to the closer space, the tusken can be affected by the blast.

See the rules, Blast affects figures and objects adjacent to the targeted space (NOT targeted figure).

 

Which is why you want to be explicit about which space under a large figure you are targeting before you roll - for purposes of range, blast, and other special abilities.

[DerBaer 1,223]

I would agree, but there is one problem with your example. That blast could be achieved regardless of what the call on blocking terrain is, by targeting the top left black B for the attack.

 

 

 

It's not always about spaces. From the RRG:

Line of sight

A figure does not block line of sight to itself. The target figure also does not block line of sight.

 

Massive

If a Massive figure occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Mobile

If a figure with mobile occupies a space containing blocking terrain, line of sight can be traced to that figure, spaces can be counted to that figure, and adjacent figures can attack that figure.

 

Let's assume there are six spaces with blocking Terrain (red). A Bantha (B) is standing on all six of them.

 

[_][T][_][_][_]

[B][_][_]

[_][_]

[_][_][_][_][_]

[_][H][_][_][_]

 

A Heavy Stormtrooper (H) wants to shoot the Bantha (B) and blast the Tusken (T). Is the Heavy Stormtrooper (H) able to draw line of sight to the space in line 2 column 2 (underlined)?

 

By the rules given, I would say he can.

Edited November 3, 2016 by DerBaer

[Cremate 539]

Agreed.

Now what if the top row of red Bs were not blocking terrain, could any of those spaces be the targeted space of the attack, through and beyond the blocking terrain underneat the nearest part of the figure. That is somehow less clear than if all the spaces were blocking.

I don't think it is possible to make a definitive argument in one direction or the other on this based on the current written rules. My instinct would be that it should be possible, but I could not argue that stronger than the opposite position that you cannot, so I would like to see a clarification on it.

[gran_orco 41]

You can only draw line of sight into the blocking space you target, not through the other blocking spaces the target figure (or any other figure) occupies. You thus need to target the blocking space you "see", because you can't draw line of sight through blocking spaces, only into them (if a figure or object you are targeting or interacting with is there) - or out of them if you're attacking from a blocking space to non-blocking space.

If we could say that you can draw line of sight to the corners of the blocking space if the line do not cross through the edge of a blocking space, it would be easier to understand. At least, this is the way I understand this rule, as the line of sight must be traced to corners only, not into figures. So, in the above example, I think that he cannot fire to that space because line of sight cross a blocking space edge. Thematically, it would be like shooting someone leaning out of a crag. You cannot see what is beyond the first space.

Edited November 3, 2016 by gran_orco

[a1bert 4,115]

By the rules given, I would say he can.

Perhaps, perhaps not.

 

The FAQ addition to Massive is a copy of the text from Mobile, so the wording wasn't probably thought about that much. It could've been a good time to make the ruling. (On the other hand, it should be in the Large figure rules.)

Edited November 3, 2016 by a1bert

[Cremate 539]

The FAQ addition to Massive is a copy of the text from Mobile, so the wording wasn't probably thought about that much. It could've been a good time to make the ruling. (On the other hand, it should be in the Large figure rules.)

This!

[Cremate 539]

And it is only going to get more relevant with the ISB Headquarters and its abundance of corners, corridors, and blocking terrain, making all the banthas figurative bulls in a china shop.

[gran_orco 41]

Sorry, has anyone asked this question to FFG?

[Eyfrosyne 11]

In that example the attacker could draw line of sight to row 2 column 1 and would not need to wonder.

 

This is possibile because a Figure does not block LOS to itself, so it is possibile to choose any of the 6 square as target.

Right?

[a1bert 4,115]

 

In that example the attacker could draw line of sight to row 2 column 1 and would not need to wonder.

 

This is possibile because a Figure does not block LOS to itself, so it is possibile to choose any of the 6 square as target.

Right?

 

What I said (you can target row 2, column 1 to Blast the T) was possible because you can draw line of sight through the target figure and the attacker, so the leftmost spaces of the figure can be targeted without needing to decide whether drawing LoS through the target overrides that you cannot draw line of sight through blocking spaces.

 

I'm not saying you can choose any of the 6 spaces the figure occupies. (Although it may be the ruling, or not.)

 

I'm saying you can target the 2 non-blocking spaces the figure occupies, so you can (try to) Blast the figure behind if you want to. (You can also target the two front blocking spaces, the two back ones are in question that would probably need a ruling.)