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Sadgit

The Community Rules Reference Guide (CRRG) Project

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Draft for those two items. Any changes needed?

ljRXLO6.png

 

@ Dommus: I included this specific example under the keyword "Exhaust"

 

Exhaust

  • When a player exhausts a card, he rotates it sideways to indicate that he has used its ability.
  • During the start-of-turn step of a player’s turn ("1. Start of turn, II. Refresh cards"; see box on page 34), he refreshes all of his exhausted cards by returning them to their upright position. Certain cards may include special instructions for refreshing.
  • Card abilities that are exhausted may not be triggered again until the corresponding card is refreshed.
  • Notably, in certain situations Items cards may be exhausted more than once per round. For example, a hero may exhaust Mana Weave during an attack in his turn, then perform a move action to trade the item to another hero. During that hero's start-of-turn step Mana Weave will be refreshed and may be exhausted again.

Related Topics: Refresh, Turn

 

 

@Charmy and Zaltyre

Concerning objects that may be attacked I included the following paragraph under the keyword "Attacks".

 

Attacking objects

  • If explicitly noted in the quest description, certain objects such as doors or objective tokens can be targeted and/or attacked "as if it were a monster".
  • When being targeted or affected by an attack such an object is treated as a monster until the attack is resolved after the 5. Deal Damage" step of combat (see "Steps of combat" on page 6).
  • While being treated as a monster, the object can be targeted by any game effect that targets a monster. This includes hero abilities, surge abilities, skills, overlord cards, etc.

Do you think this is sufficient?

Edited by Sadgit

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I stumbled upon a question and FFG answer on elixirs stating that figures treated heroes may receive elixir tokens and trade them with heroes.

Is this correct or has this decision been revoked?

If familiars treated as heroes may trade elixirs, may they also trade items or search cards?

May e.g. the Reanimate or Wolf be used to transfer items or search cards from one hero to another?

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A reanimate can receive elixir tokens. A summoned stone cannot. The reanimatr cannot fo anything with an elixir token that a hero cannot do, and can do do everything with them a hero can. This is because all elixir token related skills are hero abilities, so for those purposes the reanimate is a hero.

I think your "attacked as a monster" section is sufficient.

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Another one that I am not sure about:

 

Q: Andira Runehand's hero ability reads: "Each time you suffer 1 or more damage from an adjacent figure, that figure suffers 1 damage."
If Andira has fatigue equal to her stamina and suffers fatigue due to an ability of an adjacent monster, say an leech ability (or a master cave spider's web ability), does the monster take 1 damage from Andira?

A: The damage in this case is suffered as the result of having suffered fatigue up to the hero's Stamina, so Andira Runehand's ability would not trigger. (1)

 

I recently found an FFG answer that stated that if a figure must suffer damage instead of fatigue, abilities that trigger of both (e.g. "when suffering a fatigue" or "when suffering damage") may be played. I even put it in the CRRG (but cannot find the source anymore).

 

The two answers seem to contradict themselves. What do I miss?

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A reanimate can receive elixir tokens. A summoned stone cannot. The reanimatr cannot fo anything with an elixir token that a hero cannot do, and can do do everything with them a hero can. This is because all elixir token related skills are hero abilities, so for those purposes the reanimate is a hero.

I think your "attacked as a monster" section is sufficient.

 

Yeah, I agree with this. Figures "treated as heroes" can be targeted or affected by attacks, Monster actions, hero abilities (including skills), abilities of items and relics, and Overlord cards. That's why they can receive elixirs. However, the trading of elixirs is not mentioned on the skill card and the rule book does not state that familiars treated as heroes may trade in general or elixirs specifically. So what makes elixirs eligible to be traded by familiars?

Edited by Sadgit

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Ok, heroes can trade elixirs according to the rulebook (I forgot to look back at the LoR rulebook)- that's fine. However, it's irrelevant to whether or not familiars can, because familiars are not considered heroes for the purposes of the rulebook. My point is that there is no skill card (that is, no hero ability, since nothing about elixir tokens is built into a hero sheet) which permits heroes to trade elixir tokens. Therefore, there is no allowance for familiars to trade them.

In other words, familiars treated as figures can do all the things (and only the things) with elixir tokens allowed for heroes by the apothecary skill cards. That does not include trading them.

It is possible that an FFG rules response says they can trade them- but that is contradictory to the general rules about how to manage figures treated as heroes (namely, the passage now in the FAQ that rulebooks, quest rules, plot cards, etc do not include these objects when talking about heroes).

Edited by Zaltyre

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I actually agree with you here. Just wanted to provoke a confirmative answer from you  :) 

So it is official: Sadgit and Zaltyre against FFG rulings! Who else is with us?!

 

Really, we should ask Nathan on this ... I have got questions on movement and familiar activation sent a couple of days ago to him. No answer yet. Maybe somebody else can post this question?

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I actually agree with you here. Just wanted to provoke a confirmative answer from you  :)

So it is official: Sadgit and Zaltyre against FFG rulings! Who else is with us?!

 

Really, we should ask Nathan on this ... I have got questions on movement and familiar activation sent a couple of days ago to him. No answer yet. Maybe somebody else can post this question?

I'd give it more time. Some of my answers are on the scale of days, but many are on the scale of (a small number of) weeks. I don't think re-submitting the question will help anything.

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I also received previous answers also usually within a couple of days. All is good in this respect. I will be waiting for my answers to questions on movement and activation of familiars before I will submit something else.

Thats's why I think it might be better if somebody else would submit this question on trading elixirs.

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I actually agree with you here. Just wanted to provoke a confirmative answer from you  :)

So it is official: Sadgit and Zaltyre against FFG rulings! Who else is with us?!

 

Really, we should ask Nathan on this ... I have got questions on movement and familiar activation sent a couple of days ago to him. No answer yet. Maybe somebody else can post this question?

 

Brainstorming here...

 

Far as I know, a "familiar treated as hero" can be targeted by heroes skills and Overlord cards, but not by quest rules, plot cards and/or exploration cards.

 

I see a point on Zaltyre's statement. Having familiars "treated as heroes" being allowed to trade elixir tokens generically, means they certainly would be able to trade items/search cards, since the exception gives place to a rule.

 

Having this placed, we would create then a conflict with the concept of an object "treated as hero", and I think trading items would be the less of them.

 

Although, there is a way to think about the "familiar treated as hero" and the trading elixir token stuff.

 

Treating the case as an EXCEPTION, trading elixir tokens is supposed to be an extension of the apothecary skills, and have NOTHING, absolutely nothing related to trading items/search cards.

 

I can live well with the option above.

 

I see a clear limit on wich "familiars treated as heroes" can go. They are not supposed to be a 5th hero in the board.

 

I stand with Sadgit and Zaltyre on this, but worth a rule clarification post I believe.

Edited by Dommus

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I  give a thumbs up to the initiative. Particularly I expect much of this to clarify all the stuff with familiars. I always mix everything up.
FFG should not only support you but even give you a DEsCENT salary.

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Can somebody please provide the map tile code numbers for The Chains that Rust?

 

Tiles: 78, 79, 88-98, Entrance Tile

 

The above information, and much more, can be yours by accessing the Index of Useful Links thread pinned at the top of the forum.

 

Within there is a section titled Community Tools & Game Aids.  There is a document titled D2e Expansion Info.

 

Check it out !

Edited by any2cards

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78 and 79 are also included in MoB, right?

Do we actually know how many The Delve boss stages MoB and tCtR unlock?

It is 5 normal stages for both, but I could not find anything on boss stages.

 

Just in case you are wondering ... I am putting together a table with components for each expansion to be integrated into the CRRG.

Edited by Sadgit

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Do we actually know how many The Delve boss stages MoB and tCtR unlock?

It is 5 normal stages for both, but I could not find anything on boss stages.

 

See my post here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/222730-road-to-legend-bug-report/?p=2516318

 

tl/dr:

 

MoB gives you two "standard" stages and three ACT I "boss" stages, equalling the 5 advertised.

 

CtR gives you two "standard" stages and (currently) no "boss" stages, less than the 5 advertised.

 

I assume we are missing three ACT II "boss" stages from CtR (which matches the lieutenant cards in the expansion)

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The "The Delve" Stage Numbers are:

 

Core Set: 15 Normal Stages, 5 Boss Stages

LotW: 2 Normal Stages, 1 Boss Stage

LoR: 4 Normal Stages, 3 Boss Stages

TF: 2 Normal Stages, 1 Boss Stage

SoN: 4 Normal Stages, 3 Boss Stages

MoR: 2 Normal Stages, 1 Boss Stage

MoB: 2 Normal Stages, 3 Boss Stages

CtR: 2 Normal Stages, 3 Boss Stages(infact the same stages as MoB with an alternate map Layout).

Edited by DerDelphi

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I would like to discuss familiars and Class tokens (such as valor, insight and elixir tokens) as I could not find any clear rulings (especially for allies).

 

What do we know in respect to class tokens and figures treated as heroes (such as allies and certain familiars):

 

1. Elixir tokens (all as per official FAQ)

  • May gain token: yes
  • May discard token to use associated Class card: yes
  • Must discard all tokens when defeated: yes
  • Must discard all tokens when resummoned: yes
  • Must discard all tokens at the end of an encounter: yes

 

2. Valor tokens

  • May gain token: yes (as figures treated as heroes may be targeted by hero skills; confirmed as per unofficial FAQs)
  • May discard token to use associated Class card: yes (as figures treated as heroes may be targeted by hero skills; confirmed as per unofficial FAQs)
  • Must discard all tokens when defeated: Familiar: Yes, as each instance of a familiar is a new figure; Ally: Unknown, as allies "recover all damage at the end of an encounter" it seems that they are not considered as new figures and thus might keep valor tokens (just like heroes).
  • Must discard all tokens when resummoned: Yes, as each instance of a familiar is a new figure.
  • Must discard all tokens at the end of an encounter: Familiars: yes. Allies: Unknown.

 

3. Insight token

  • May gain token: yes (as figures treated as heroes may be targeted by hero skills)
  • May discard token to use associated Class card: yes (as figures treated as heroes may be targeted by hero skills).
  • Must discard all tokens when defeated: Familiar: Yes, as each instance of a familiar is a new figure; Ally: Unknown, as allies "recover all damage at the end of an encounter" it seems that they are not considered as new figures and thus might keep the insight token (just like heroes).
  • Must discard all tokens when resummoned: Yes, as each instance of a familiar is a new figure.
  • Must discard all tokens at the end of an encounter: Familiars: yes, Allies: Unknown.

 

Do you agree? Do you think that allies discards valor and insight tokens when defeated and at the end of an encounter? This would be in line with the rulings on elixir tokens, but maybe there are reasons why they are different?

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Regarding tile numbers: note that there are some tiles that appear multiple times and in more than one expansion. I belive tile 43 is one of them. Some of CTR appear already in MOB. (As Any2Cards mentioned 78 and 79).

Edited by Chaoticus

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I will look into this.

However, I will leave out transitions, end caps and extenders for the table and only give the tiles with codes. Any2cards has created a great excel sheet (see sticky thread) that lists all components of all expansions in detail. My table is aiming for an overview on components that I feel are most interesting for players.

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My assumption has been that allies are treated just like familiar figures when it comes to class tokens. Just like familiar figures, allies are not heroes, but are treated as heroes for the same purposes as familiar figures. They are also "essentially out of the game" (quoting LoR rulebook) when defeated until an effect brings them back. For allies, it just happens that the effect bringing them back is an instruction in encounter setup.

 

We have treated allies as fresh figures each time they appear, just like a lieutenant.

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