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Sadgit

The Community Rules Reference Guide (CRRG) Project

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The CRRG Project

 

First of all, this is HavocDreams here. I decided to consolidate my FFG and BBG accounts and will be posting under my nick Sadgit in both communities from now on.

 

A couple of days ago, when I have been asking what kind of rules resource for Descent we really want, two main types were discussed: an online resource and a (printable) PDF document. User Psymia already started designing templates and adding to the Descent Wiki that exists and I hope that with the help of others this will grow into a great online resource for all rule questions.

 

I decided to start working on a PDF document that I call “Community Rules Reference Guide” (CRRG). The aim of this project is to create a comprehensive resource that unites the rules from the base game, all published expansions, official FAQs, unofficial FAQs, and Errata. Rather than replacing the “Rules of Play” book of the base game when it comes to learning how to play, it is meant to act as a reference for specific and difficult problems which are encountered during a game. It will include relevant keywords of the Descent rule set in alphabetical order followed by sections dealing with rules on specific game components such as cards and quests. Errata and rulings derived from FAQs and uFAQs will be integrated into the text of corresponding sections itself.

As you might have realized, this is a very ambitious project which will take some time to complete. It will also strongly depend on the support that I will get from you guys/gals – hence the word Community in its title. I have already been in contact with Zaltyre and he confirmed his support. I would like to use this thread in the future to ask for help on specific topics (see below), ask for opinions, discussions and keep you updated on the progress.

Edited by Sadgit

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Community Support
 
1. Collect and publish unofficial FAQs
As most of you might know, unofficial FAQs (uFAQ) are rules questions that have been answered by FFG and subsequently published by community members. In my opinion, uFAQs cannot be overestimated for this project, as they often give us rules for specific problems that have not been addressed sufficiently in any other resource. At the moment the main resource for uFAQs is a dedicated uFAQ thread at BGG and a corresponding uFAQ wiki. It is supposed to work like this: Users post new uFAQs with FFG answers to the thread, the wiki then collects all posted uFAQs on one structured, searchable page. Each entry in the wiki refers to one post in the thread.
I have been collecting unofficial FAQs to update the uFAQ Wiki and added/updated 180 entries in the last months. If you have additional uFAQ or find something that is missing, please follow this procedure

  • Check the uFAQ wiki to confirm that the question has not already been added.
  • If new, add a post to the uFAQ thread with the complete question and answer by FFG.
  • If you found the uFAQ somewhere else in the internet, please link that source.
  • Optional: Add the question and a summary of the answer (often only a “yes” or “no”) to the uFAQ wiki. Follow the  format and instructions given at the top of the wiki page. If you do so, please add "Added to the wiki" or something similar to your uFAQ thread post.

All uFAQs posted in the uFAQ Thread at BGG will be included in the CRRG.
 
 
2. List of Specific Problems and Requests
This is a list of things that I need help with at the moment. I will edit this post to keep it updated and add a new post to the thread to indicate that something has been added or resolved.

  • Provide a scan of the condition token “terrified” (resolved by Zaltyre)
  • Provide a scan of the following class tokens: “Insight”, “Tracking”, “Mirror Image”  (resolved by Zaltyre)
  • Write drafts for the "O" keywords that I have not done yet (starting with Obstacle, Objective tokens, Old wall, Open or close door, Overgrowth)
  • Put together an entry for "Interrupt" covering what is actually known on this badly defined keyword.
  • Provide a scan of Challenge tokens (all variants) as I could not find suitable images in the rule books.
  • Somebody good with graphics, can work on the info graphics for LOS and movement. The end result should be similar to this:7HGji2t.jpg
Edited by Sadgit

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Nice work Sadgit. Contributing with it so far, I engaged into a debate about what consist an "interrupt", allowing a large figure to expand. Far as we know, an action is an interrupting event, and some non action abilities also are (i.e. Nimble).

 

The point is to exactly know when a skill/ability constitutes an interrupt, since it really matters for the purposes of expanding a large figure. For instance, does a prayer of healing consist into an interrupt? The use of the exhaust option on Soulless Scythe constitute an interrupt (note if wielded by a large liutenant, and thus not allowing an expansion, the large figure will deal a condition while shrunk, kind of weird ...)?

 

I know Zaltyre already submited a rule clarification post, so I'm just making it more public by revisiting the thread.

 

You can check out the whole post here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/192231-move-actions-and-fatigue/

 

In the name of the community, thank you for your concern about the rules clarification  :)

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Really cool. Thanks for all the effort Sadgit. One suggestion: in your example the entries are ordered alphabetically. It might be easier to use if the order were thematically instead. To me it's kinda wired to see the cursed condition entry right next to damage and crumbling terrain.

 

So I would lump conditions together. Same for special terrain types and door types. Then maybe combat related things (attack pool, defeated etc)

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The CRRG (as I imagine it) is aiming to provide a means to quickly resolve problems and questions that surface during a gaming session. I can definitely put all conditions under the Keyword "Conditions" and just link to that paragraph from keywords "Cursed", "Poisoned" and such. The "Conditions" entry will be rather long, but it should be still ok. At the moment I am referencing the other way around.

 

When it comes to really large topics such as Combat, I think it will be easier to find relevant keywords in alphabetical order rather than looking through a multiple pages paragraph. I have discussed this with Zaltyre and he also suggested alternative structures. In the end, it comes down to what kind of guide you want: A rulebook kind of thing or a alphabethically ordered reference guide. I went for the reference style. However, with the CRRG finished and all the information in one place, it will be much easier to create a rulebook-style document than it is now.

Edited by Sadgit

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I would say that it should be under some keywords

 

"conditions" should be one (with alphabetical order for condition if you want but I would made them as expansions comes)

but same for

charaters sheet, dices, etc ...

 

Alphabetical order would be some sort of mess to find what you're looking for. When playing and looking for a specific answer to a problem, it would be more logical to look first by the situation than by alphabetical order. at least, it would the way I would do.

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Do not get me wrong, of course, there is the Keyword "Conditions" included at the moment. It gives all the general rules on how conditions are inflicted, removed and such. It has half a column's length at the moment. Under "Related topics" all links to specific conditions are added.

 

Could you please specify, what you think should be included under "characters sheet, dices, etc ..." in a similar way?

Edited by Sadgit

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Let's see !

 

I would say

 

"dices", so, all things about dice and names of each (blue die is the attack die, yellow, red and green are power dice, all of them are sometimes called attack dices [and the trouble that may cause with The attack die], attack pool, defense die, dice, defense pool, etc ...

 

"Characters" would be about life, fatigue, stamina, values

 

"movement" would be about all the way to move, so, move action, moving up to your speed, gaining movement point from other sources than movement action, etc ...

 

"conditions" with immobilization and all exceptions and how it really works

 

"Ovelord card" and times when how and when to play each

 

"Turn" with the start of turn, end of turn, that a hero who start his turn defeated will not activate start of turn effects but will activate end of turns ones and cannot activation effect who says during his turn

 

"attack" with when to roll dice, when to activates surges and other effects

 

you see how I'm looking at it, then ?

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That's exactly the way I am doing it at the moment. Example paragraph for "Dice"

 

Dice
There are three different types of dice in the game: attack dice (blue), power dice (yellow, red, green), and defense dice (gray, black, brown). Usually these dice are mixed and rolled together as a single pool of dice. In combat, all dice rolled by the attacker constitute the attack pool, all dice rolled by the defender constitute the defense pool. For attribute tests one gray die and one black die are rolled.
On some materials "attack dice" is used instead of attack pool. In these cases "attack die" (singular) designates the blue die and "attack dice" (plural) designates all dice that an attacker rolls.    
Related Topics: Attack, Attribute

 

Anything else to add?

Edited by Sadgit

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I would suggest that "When unarmed, you may perform a melee attack known as Bare Hands using only the attack die and this attack may only target an adjacent space"

 

(this concept is a bit used with the new monk hybrid class)

Edited by rugal

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I'd have to double-check the rulebook to be sure, but I think you can choose to perform a barehanded attack whether you have a weapon equipped or not.

 

Base Rules ... Page 12 ... Section: Declare Weapon & Attack

 

The player must also declare which equipped weapon his hero is using.
Heroes may either attack with one equipped weapon or their bare hands.
A hero attacking with his bare hands can only target an adjacent space
and rolls only the blue attack die for his attack.
 
It would seem to me that the above seems to indicate that you could attack bare handed, even if you have a weapon equipped.

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A little error: the terrified condition is introduced in The Chains that Rust as well.

 

Maybe add a note to weakened:

Note: Mark that Monsters, Agents and Lieutenants cannot perform a rest action.

 

Add 'Attribute Test' to the related topics.

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Sounds like your original idea is to make something more like a dictionary reference, while most people would prefer something like a categorical reference guide. From the last pic you're on your way to making it into a guide anyways if you continue to categorize things. Your original suggestion of a large alphabetical list honestly sounds like a a lot of work that few will want to use. Perhaps a structured guide would be better, with a glossary in the back for those that prefer the list?

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A little error: the terrified condition is introduced in The Chains that Rust as well.

 

Maybe add a note to weakened:

Note: Mark that Monsters, Agents and Lieutenants cannot perform a rest action.

 

Add 'Attribute Test' to the related topics.

 

Chains that Rust added.

 

Although I see your point, I am inclined not to include that note to Weakened. Actions that monsters may perform are specified elsewhere. Otherwise, to keep it consistent, other conditions would need the note "Monster cannot perform attribute tests" etc. I am trying to prevent re-defining things that have been defined elsewhere.

 

"Attribute test" is a section under "Attributes".     

Edited by Sadgit

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Sounds like your original idea is to make something more like a dictionary reference, while most people would prefer something like a categorical reference guide. From the last pic you're on your way to making it into a guide anyways if you continue to categorize things. Your original suggestion of a large alphabetical list honestly sounds like a a lot of work that few will want to use. Perhaps a structured guide would be better, with a glossary in the back for those that prefer the list?

 

The CRRG was never meant to be a pure dictionary but a categorical reference guide as you call it.

I try to work out in each case if a keyword gets its own entry or fits well under an existing entry. However, I am inclined, not to create entries covering several pages. I feel, that would move the project too much towards a rulebook, and this is not my goal. At the moment I have a preliminary list of ~150 entries that I am working on (including placeholder ones just pointing to another entry). If you would like, I can post it and you guys can discuss organization. The CRRG will contain an index at the end that will point to entries and subsections of entries.

Edited by Sadgit

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1 small addition: The burning condition lists labyrinth of the wrym, but the expansion is called lair of the wyrm.

 

Also, perhaps you could use some higher quality token images? Scans tend to be very blurry, the best way is to use the ones from the rulebooks.

Edited by DerDelphi

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@Delphi:

Typical copy-paste, corrected.

The scans I use are actually better quality than the stuff in the rulebook.

 

Also keep in mind that, we do not want the pdf to end up with >50 MB.

 

@rugal

Thanks for your offer. Thinking about stuff I am happy to delegate ...

 

If somebody is good with graphics, he/she could start working on the appendix (info graphics for LOS and movement) I am planning to include something similar to what has been done for SW:IA

Otherwise people could write drafts for entries that I have not started yet. 

Edited by Sadgit

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