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MajorJuggler

2016 Worlds Results

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Appropriately balanced cards are okay. Uncancled 2-3 dice for 2 and 5 points.

Not 1 point for all the dice.

 

Again, given this build, Dengaroo would have still had the points for Zuckuss if he cost more.

 

Manaroo's ability to give him full mods with focus is the issue here. That first turn of shooting would have resulted in 0 damage if Manaroo didn't pass him a focus token.

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Worse thing about it winning worlds? As Blair just pointed out to me: we are going to have to play this stupid thing over and over in Regionals now.

We have been playing against dengaroo since jeff run at the USA national, it's not like it's new hotness

Oh but we used to have triple jumps to counter it... I hope everyone who was glad for the deadeye nerf will enjoy playing against our dengaroo overlords

 

Yea, Jeff B (the creator) was flying it at Michigan (Runner-Up) and then Ohio (Champion) Regionals before getting Runner-Up at Origins with it.  I've basically already been playing against it non-stop.  In fact, I flew against Dengaroo four times in my eight games at Gencon this year... So yea, they've already been here in the Midwest meta in force for a long time now, since effectively May of 2016.

 

For the record, Jeff also invented "Fat Han" in the sense that he was the first to put R2D2 crew on a Falcon, notably with Threepio and the Title.  He beat Heaver with it at Gencon, and Paul tweaked the rest of the list and used the combo to win Worlds that year. And god knows we all had to play against Fat Hans over and over.

In fact...it's all Jeff's fault!  Hah, this is now the second time a creation of his has won Worlds, and we've all had to endure the metas he's wrought after net-deckers latch onto his builds.  Difference here is that Degnaroo had already exploded from net-decking well before Worlds rolled around.  At least no one really ran with the Fat Falcon archetype until Paul took it to the top at Worlds.

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Worse thing about it winning worlds? As Blair just pointed out to me: we are going to have to play this stupid thing over and over in Regionals now.

I hate that build.   Its sooo braindead.  Like smearing icecream on your face twice.  agreed.

That is one of the funniest posts I've read in weeks. I. Can't. Breathe.

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Worse thing about it winning worlds? As Blair just pointed out to me: we are going to have to play this stupid thing over and over in Regionals now.

We have been playing against dengaroo since jeff run at the USA national, it's not like it's new hotness

Oh but we used to have triple jumps to counter it... I hope everyone who was glad for the deadeye nerf will enjoy playing against our dengaroo overlords

 

Yea, Jeff B (the creator) was flying it at Michigan (Runner-Up) and then Ohio (Champion) Regionals before getting Runner-Up at Origins with it.  I've basically already been playing against it non-stop.  In fact, I flew against Dengaroo four times in my eight games at Gencon this year... So yea, they've already been here in the Midwest meta in force for a long time now, since effectively May of 2016.

 

For the record, Jeff also invented "Fat Han" in the sense that he was the first to put R2D2 crew on a Falcon, notably with Threepio and the Title.  He beat Heaver with it at Gencon, and Paul tweaked the rest of the list and used the combo to win Worlds that year. And god knows we all had to play against Fat Hans over and over.

In fact...it's all Jeff's fault!  Hah, this is now the second time a creation of his has won Worlds, and we've all had to endure the metas he's wrought after net-deckers latch onto his builds.  Difference here is that Degnaroo had already exploded from net-decking well before Worlds rolled around.  At least no one really ran with the Fat Falcon archetype until Paul took it to the top at Worlds.

 

 

 

Yea, I'll have to keep an eye on what Jeff Berling is flying from now on... :)

Might have to pick up a Party Bus after all...

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Yea I hate flying into Dengar's pilot ability but I think Dengaroo is a cool list both in game and Fluff wise. :)

It's interesting that now after two Nerfs the Jumpmaster still has a place in the meta without being over half of the top 16.

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Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys think the Biggs nerf affected Worlds? Aside from Zach Bunn, I didn't see a single Biggs, which was surprising.

 

I was a little surprised to see no one flying an ARC-170 at Worlds. But I don't get the feeling that the slight Nerf to Biggs changed someone's mind who would've flown them so there must have been other reasons...

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I was surprised to see the E Wing taken off the board so quickly, but was more surprised to see the early choices with the K Wing. That said, I think it came down to the mistakes more than the utter dominance of one list over the other.

I am very excited about the Scum championship. I think many of us thought that Palp Aces would have been the winning list. Worlds was very interesting this year.

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Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys think the Biggs nerf affected Worlds? Aside from Zach Bunn, I didn't see a single Biggs, which was surprising.

 

I was a little surprised to see no one flying an ARC-170 at Worlds. But I don't get the feeling that the slight Nerf to Biggs changed someone's mind who would've flown them so there must have been other reasons...

 

Biggs was there in a lot of the rebel lists where his protection made sense and would've fit the points.  I don't think the FAQ had much to do with it.  It mostly affected Biggs and ordnance and I don't think there was enough old fashioned ordnance for that to matter.

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I was surprised to see the E Wing taken off the board so quickly, but was more surprised to see the early choices with the K Wing. That said, I think it came down to the mistakes more than the utter dominance of one list over the other.

I am very excited about the Scum championship. I think many of us thought that Palp Aces would have been the winning list. Worlds was very interesting this year.

Agreed. I was surprised with the early Connor Net. If he had kept it in reserve and Netted Manny...that would have been cool to see. And putting corran in that position was a little surprising. Poor little guy never stood a chance. All on all though it was a pretty good game. Didn't get to see much of the other games but i plan to watch them in the near future.

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Just out of curiosity, how much do you guys think the Biggs nerf affected Worlds? Aside from Zach Bunn, I didn't see a single Biggs, which was surprising.

 

I was a little surprised to see no one flying an ARC-170 at Worlds. But I don't get the feeling that the slight Nerf to Biggs changed someone's mind who would've flown them so there must have been other reasons...

 

 

I faced a Nora Cracken Jan list that was pretty scary and I'd have lost if he'd had better (closer to average) red dice.

Edited by AlexW

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I understand Scum is supposed to be... scummy.  But Zuckuss seems like the perfect card to make someone hate the game.

 

he really shouldn't be

 

green dice are infuriating as they are always unreliable and can lead to undeserved victories/loses, anything that mitigates their effectiveness should always be welcome

 

 

Normally I get your posts, and I understand that you mean about the swinginess of green dice, but I don't understand that last part -- mitigating their success means that you make average rolls terrible.  I mean, agility is what those ships pay for and it's been less reliable over the course of 6-8 games than simply having hull since this game began.  It's worse now because of the cards that target it.

 

If you take a look at what Zuckuss does to those ships his value is significantly worth more than one point.  Anything that "mitigates" the effect of green dice actually pushes people to ships and upgrades that have more reliable green dice for those that fly those ships.  It's why almost all the imperials were seen were running Palp and/or X7.  It significantly narrows the amount of builds with ships with agility.   Heck, even most Scum lists that did well flying fangs were running at least Manaroo and sometimes Mindlink as well.   

 

Soontir, the most feared ship in this game for a long time did not even make the cut (first appearance was at #30 and then again at #41).

 

We're at a point in this game where agility has to be backed not only by tokens, but by additional effects from other ships, ships that people argue are broken in some way (Palp and Manaroo).  Cards that have continually tried to counter high agility (and probably specifically Soontir), especially Zuckuss, are a big reason for that and I don't think that's good for the game.   Defenders are a bit of an exception to that because of their health+agility+title+white K turn.

Edited by AlexW

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I understand Scum is supposed to be... scummy.  But Zuckuss seems like the perfect card to make someone hate the game.

 

he really shouldn't be

 

green dice are infuriating as they are always unreliable and can lead to undeserved victories/loses, anything that mitigates their effectiveness should always be welcome

 

 

Normally I get your posts, and I understand that you mean about the swinginess of green dice, but I don't understand that last part -- mitigating their success means that you make average rolls terrible.  I mean, agility is what those ships pay for and it's been less reliable over the course of 6-8 games than simply having hull since this game began.  It's worse now because of the cards that target it.

 

If you take a look at what Zuckuss does to those ships his value is significantly worth more than one point.  Anything that "mitigates" the effect of green dice actually pushes people to ships and upgrades that have more reliable green dice for those that fly those ships.  It's why almost all the imperials were seen were running Palp and/or X7.  It significantly narrows the amount of builds with ships with agility.   Heck, even most Scum lists that did well flying fangs were running at least Manaroo and sometimes Mindlink as well.   

 

Soontir, the most feared ship in this game for a long time did not even make the cut (first appearance was at #30 and then again at #41).

 

We're at a point in this game where agility has to be backed not only by tokens, but by additional effects from other ships, ships that people argue are broken in some way (Palp and Manaroo).  Cards that have continually tried to counter high agility (and probably specifically Soontir), especially Zuckuss, are a big reason for that and I don't think that's good for the game.   Defenders are a bit of an exception to that because of their health+agility+title+white K turn.

 

 

I think this post assumes that people were running ships with 'normal' green dice before zuckuss.

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I understand Scum is supposed to be... scummy.  But Zuckuss seems like the perfect card to make someone hate the game.

 

he really shouldn't be

 

green dice are infuriating as they are always unreliable and can lead to undeserved victories/loses, anything that mitigates their effectiveness should always be welcome

 

 

Normally I get your posts, and I understand that you mean about the swinginess of green dice, but I don't understand that last part -- mitigating their success means that you make average rolls terrible.  I mean, agility is what those ships pay for and it's been less reliable over the course of 6-8 games than simply having hull since this game began.  It's worse now because of the cards that target it.

 

If you take a look at what Zuckuss does to those ships his value is significantly worth more than one point.  Anything that "mitigates" the effect of green dice actually pushes people to ships and upgrades that have more reliable green dice for those that fly those ships.  It's why almost all the imperials were seen were running Palp and/or X7.  It significantly narrows the amount of builds with ships with agility.   Heck, even most Scum lists that did well flying fangs were running at least Manaroo and sometimes Mindlink as well.   

 

Soontir, the most feared ship in this game for a long time did not even make the cut (first appearance was at #30 and then again at #41).

 

We're at a point in this game where agility has to be backed not only by tokens, but by additional effects from other ships, ships that people argue are broken in some way (Palp and Manaroo).  Cards that have continually tried to counter high agility (and probably specifically Soontir), especially Zuckuss, are a big reason for that and I don't think that's good for the game.   Defenders are a bit of an exception to that because of their health+agility+title+white K turn.

 

 

I think this post assumes that people were running ships with 'normal' green dice before zuckuss.

 

 

They absolutely were -- there was a time where people were choosing between Palp and a third ace (or other choices).   See last year's World's (Edit:  Specifically, Brad Miller's list and Martin Hoffman's list from the Top 16.   There were also agility 3 Tie Swarms in there with CS.  Those were nowhere to be found this year at the top tables).

Edited by AlexW

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Looking at the top 32, it looks pretty diverse like last year's, which is a good sign. Only big diversity issue I see is the dominance of Palp/Defenders for Imperial builds. Not a single TIE swarm. 

 

1. Dengaroo

2. Corran+Miranda regen

3. Palp aces (Defender+Omega Leader)

4. Han+Jake

5. Palp aces (Defenders)

6. Dengaroo

7. Fang Fighters+Manaroo

8. Palp Aces (Defenders)

9. Double Lancers

10. Palp Aces (Defender+Carnor)

11. Whisper+Decimator

12. Triple Defenders

13. Quad TLTs

14. Uboats

15. Shadowcaster+2 TLTs

16. Dengaroo

17. Corran+Miranda regen

18. Two Ghosts+Autoblaster Y-Wing

19. Palp Aces (Defenders)

20. BBBXZ

21. Dengaroo

22. Dengar+Bossk Party Bus

23. Palp Aces (Inquisitor+Wampa+Omega Leader)

24. Quad TLTs

25. Shadowcaster+Fang+MANGLER SCYK OMG

26. Brobots

27. Defenders+Inquisitor

28. Super Dash+Regen Poe

29. Shadowcaster+Bossk Party Bus

30. Palp Aces (Fel+Defender)

31. Chewbacca+2 TLTs

32. Triple bomber K-Wings

Edited by WingedSpider

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I understand Scum is supposed to be... scummy. But Zuckuss seems like the perfect card to make someone hate the game.

he really shouldn't be

green dice are infuriating as they are always unreliable and can lead to undeserved victories/loses, anything that mitigates their effectiveness should always be welcome

Normally I get your posts, and I understand that you mean about the swinginess of green dice, but I don't understand that last part -- mitigating their success means that you make average rolls terrible. I mean, agility is what those ships pay for and it's been less reliable over the course of 6-8 games than simply having hull since this game began. It's worse now because of the cards that target it.

If you take a look at what Zuckuss does to those ships his value is significantly worth more than one point. Anything that "mitigates" the effect of green dice actually pushes people to ships and upgrades that have more reliable green dice for those that fly those ships. It's why almost all the imperials were seen were running Palp and/or X7. It significantly narrows the amount of builds with ships with agility. Heck, even most Scum lists that did well flying fangs were running at least Manaroo and sometimes Mindlink as well.

Soontir, the most feared ship in this game for a long time did not even make the cut (first appearance was at #30 and then again at #41).

We're at a point in this game where agility has to be backed not only by tokens, but by additional effects from other ships, ships that people argue are broken in some way (Palp and Manaroo). Cards that have continually tried to counter high agility (and probably specifically Soontir), especially Zuckuss, are a big reason for that and I don't think that's good for the game. Defenders are a bit of an exception to that because of their health+agility+title+white K turn.

I think this post assumes that people were running ships with 'normal' green dice before zuckuss.

They absolutely were -- there was a time where people were choosing between Palp and a third ace (or other choices). See last year's World's (Edit: Specifically, Brad Miller's list and Martin Hoffman's list from the Top 16. There were also agility 3 Tie Swarms in there with CS. Those were nowhere to be found this year at the top tables).

Thing is, in addition to normal green dice ships people were also running Soontir with Palp. That kind of uber defensive builds required a counter IMO (it's highly frustrating to see your opponent turning blank, blank, blank into 3 evades). Edited by LordBlades

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