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kevacho

SF Backdraft...

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So, an argument arose from my gaming group last night regarding "Backdraft", and his or her stated power.  My friends all agreed that I was wrong, and that you add a third, sometimes fourth critical hit die result to "Backdraft's" existing power.  I believe you add a critical hit result to the existing two or three attack dice.  Anyone run into this yet?  And if so, what's the general consensus?

 

"Backdraft's" pilot power is as follows, "When attacking a ship inside your auxiliary firing arc, you may add 1 critical result."

 

Best regards,

Kevacho :D

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I'm not actually understanding the difference between the sides you've stated.

 

Anyways, Backdraft's ability works like this.  Roll your rear primary weapon attack, so two red dice, or three at range one.  Take an extra red dice, turn it to the critical hit side, and place it with the others you just rolled.

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im guessing youre confused about when he adds a crit?

 

its literally "if you roll attack dice from the aux arc, add a crit" assuming something isnt stopping you from modding dice (adding is modding).

So if he has a range1 shot out the ass, thats 3 dice being rolled, and regardless of what the results are, he adds a 4th die as a Crit.

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Interesting.  So, there IS a discrepancy. :unsure: It appears that "dhowtocor" and "thespaceinvader" agree with me, however, "zefirus" and "Vineheart01" disagree. 

 

Thanks for the replies everyone.  I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet in the forums.  

 

I'm somewhat new here is there a way to direct my question to "Fantasy Flight"?

 

Best regards,

Kevin :D

Play well.

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Here is the link for rules questions: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/

They won't tell you anything different than what everyone else in this thread is already saying.

Backdraft attacks with primary weapon from rear-facing auxiliary firing arc. During the modify dice step (see the Rules Reference or the FAQ timing chart) add a die with a crit result on it to the pool of dice you rolled for the attack.

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Thank you, "jmswood". 

 

And thanks again everyone for your input.  Wouldn't be the first time I misread a Fantasy Flight rule.  Probably, won't be the last.  :unsure:

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so this came up in our playgroup as well concerning Backdraft with the SF title.

 

Title: When attacking with a primary weapon from your primary firing arc, you may roll 1 additional attack die. If you do not, you may perform an additional attack from your auxiliary firing arc.

 

The interpretation mixup here is what "If you do not" refers to. Does it refer to attacking with a primary weapon from your primary arc, or rolling 1 additional attack die, or both? Some have taken this to interpret it so that if Backdraft fires from his aux arc first, then the title allows him to fire again from his aux arc since they argue "if you do not" has been satisfied.

 

As a local TO, I've ruled this as "if you fire from your aux arc first, you get his pilot ability to add a crit, but the title doesn't trigger, since the requirement is to fire a primary weapon from your primary arc." I'm just looking for clarification that I'm making the right call.

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that is an oddly common issue.

 

The trigger for any upgrade card is the first thing it states; In this case the "firing from your primary arc" - they probably would have evaded this issue if they just said:

 

"When attacking from your primary arc, you may add 1 die to your attack OR perform an additional attack from your auxiliary arc"

 

Trigger is attack from your primary firing arc, which causes 1 of 2 effects. Current wording is a little misleading.

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so this came up in our playgroup as well concerning Backdraft with the SF title.

 

Title: When attacking with a primary weapon from your primary firing arc, you may roll 1 additional attack die. If you do not, you may perform an additional attack from your auxiliary firing arc.

 

The interpretation mixup here is what "If you do not" refers to. Does it refer to attacking with a primary weapon from your primary arc, or rolling 1 additional attack die, or both? Some have taken this to interpret it so that if Backdraft fires from his aux arc first, then the title allows him to fire again from his aux arc since they argue "if you do not" has been satisfied.

 

As a local TO, I've ruled this as "if you fire from your aux arc first, you get his pilot ability to add a crit, but the title doesn't trigger, since the requirement is to fire a primary weapon from your primary arc." I'm just looking for clarification that I'm making the right call.

 

This has been the most asked question I have ever seen (granted I have only been here since May but still) I think it is too many people reading what they want it to say instead of what the card says.  

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After reading the card and the article, it seems pretty clear to me that the extra die is the limiting clause for the additional auxiliary arc attack. If you add the die, you get one 3-dice primary arc attack. If you do not add the die, you get a 2-dice primary attack, AND a 2-dice auxiliary arc attack.

 

Now it could be read that you might decide not to make an attack in your primary arc, and instead make an auxiliary arc attack, and then claim the additional auxiliary arc attack. But the article was really pushing the advantage of the title allowing an attack from both arcs within the same round.

 

It seems logical to me that if you don't add the die for the front attack, then you get to attack from the rear as well.

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Thanks again to everyone who replied.  Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated.  Especially, Klutz.  That was the definitive answer I was looking for.

 

Be well.  Play hard.  Play fair. :D

kevacho

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Thanks again to everyone who replied.  Your help and suggestions are greatly appreciated.  Especially, Klutz.  That was the definitive answer I was looking for.

 

Be well.  Play hard.  Play fair. :D

kevacho

 

I think most people just didn't quite understand the core of your confusion.

 

It was hidden behind a question about a specific card, I had to read between the lines a little. ;)

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how is the wording "an additional attack" different than the title text for Dengar that says "may perform an attack." ??? It does not say he gets to perform an "additional attack" like Special Ops Training does, meaning (at least to me) that he cannot attack with his title text and then attack with primary attack. Can you only perform one attack per round unless you have an upgrade card (such as SOT) or title text that specifically states you may perform "an additional attack?"

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I'm pretty sure from my read that the pilot ability mearly means that when your are perforing a primary weapon attack from your aux arc you may add 1 crit result to your roll.

If you have ships in both arcs, for example, you attack the ship in the primary arc first. RESOLVE that attack. Than you've triggered the title, allowing you to attack from aux arc. While attacking from the aux arc you may add 1 crit result to your roll. I cannot see how anyone interprets how there are any additional attacks being allowed by either the title or the pilot ability.

This just sounds to me like more word lawyering.

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im guessing youre confused about when he adds a crit?

 

its literally "if you roll attack dice from the aux arc, add a crit" assuming something isnt stopping you from modding dice (adding is modding).

So if he has a range1 shot out the ass, thats 3 dice being rolled, and regardless of what the results are, he adds a 4th die as a Crit.

Vineheart, just to be clear adding a die to an attack is not modifying but adding a die result is. This came from the explanation under the Omega Leader card.

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im guessing youre confused about when he adds a crit?

 

its literally "if you roll attack dice from the aux arc, add a crit" assuming something isnt stopping you from modding dice (adding is modding).

So if he has a range1 shot out the ass, thats 3 dice being rolled, and regardless of what the results are, he adds a 4th die as a Crit.

Vineheart, just to be clear adding a die to an attack is not modifying but adding a die result is. This came from the explanation under the Omega Leader card.

 

Huh? Yeah i know that but howd you get that i was referring to rolling additional die in my comment?

Adding is adding a specific result (evade, focus, hit, crit, blank) to an existing roll. "Roll 1 additional die" isnt adding dice. Note that range benefits, obstructed, or abilities/upgrades that add dice to your pool BEFORE you roll specifically say "roll 1 additional die" and not "add 1 die to your roll"

 

Backdraft doesnt roll an additional die, he adds a result. Which is die modding.

Edited by Vineheart01

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im guessing youre confused about when he adds a crit?

 

its literally "if you roll attack dice from the aux arc, add a crit" assuming something isnt stopping you from modding dice (adding is modding).

So if he has a range1 shot out the ass, thats 3 dice being rolled, and regardless of what the results are, he adds a 4th die as a Crit.

Vineheart, just to be clear adding a die to an attack is not modifying but adding a die result is. This came from the explanation under the Omega Leader card.

 

Huh? Yeah i know that but howd you get that i was referring to rolling additional die in my comment?

Adding is adding a specific result (evade, focus, hit, crit, blank) to an existing roll. "Roll 1 additional die" isnt adding dice. Note that range benefits, obstructed, or abilities/upgrades that add dice to your pool BEFORE you roll specifically say "roll 1 additional die" and not "add 1 die to your roll"

 

Backdraft doesnt roll an additional die, he adds a result. Which is die modding.

 

 

I think Stoneface made his comment because you said "he adds a 4th die as a Crit", instead of saying "he adds a 4th die result as a Crit".

 

However, your original comment is perfectly correct, since adding a die result actually involves adding a physical die with the appropriate face to the die pool.

I thought your original comment was perfectly clear that the 4th die was added after the roll - you even specifically said "thats 3 dice being rolled" and that the 4th die as a crit is added "regardless of what the results are".

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im guessing youre confused about when he adds a crit?

 

its literally "if you roll attack dice from the aux arc, add a crit" assuming something isnt stopping you from modding dice (adding is modding).

So if he has a range1 shot out the ass, thats 3 dice being rolled, and regardless of what the results are, he adds a 4th die as a Crit.

Vineheart, just to be clear adding a die to an attack is not modifying but adding a die result is. This came from the explanation under the Omega Leader card.

Huh? Yeah i know that but howd you get that i was referring to rolling additional die in my comment?

Adding is adding a specific result (evade, focus, hit, crit, blank) to an existing roll. "Roll 1 additional die" isnt adding dice. Note that range benefits, obstructed, or abilities/upgrades that add dice to your pool BEFORE you roll specifically say "roll 1 additional die" and not "add 1 die to your roll"

 

Backdraft doesnt roll an additional die, he adds a result. Which is die modding.

I just commented on the wording in parentheses. "Adding is modding". Adding a die isn't but adding a die result is. I should have been more specific about what I was referring to.

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