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Asmuth

Speed and Armor

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I seriously can't fathom how anyone would consider the speed to be 3.....
Why apply the armour first and then Ironblood? In that reasoning, unequipping and equipping the armour would change the hero's speed from 2 back to 3 anyway. Why bother with reducing it to 2?

 

 

But you can fathom it, because the rules do not address this situation at all. You may be having some cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile these effects from a thematic point of view.

 

I would say, as I mentioned, unless it says "Base speed" on the card it's pretty clear cut that it makes your movement two.

 

FFG does respond very quickly to rules questions raised here on the site though so it's not too hard to find out for sure.

 

 

Again, disagree that it's clear cut. Your speed is your speed. There is no distinction between "base speed" and "current speed" or any other type of speed. You aren't tracking multiple types. Both cards change your "base" speed, if that's what we're agreeing to call the one and only type of speed a character has. Agree that speed 2 is a valid interpretation, but not the only one due to timing ambiguity that's been beaten to death by now. Also agree that a question to FFG would resolve this, and surprised that no one has done that thus far. But then what would be the fun in that? :)

Edited by cdj0902

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If it makes everyone feel better, I'll submit the question formally. I'll post the answer when I get one.

 

EDIT: For the record, here's what I asked:

 

How do negative modifiers ("Apply -1 to your Speed") such as on the skill "Iron Blooded" work with equipment or other abilities which reduce your speed (for example, "Stone Armor")? Specifically, what will a hero's "final" Speed be if he has both the Iron Blooded skill and Stone Armor equipped if the speed printed on his hero sheet is:
 
a) 5
b) 4
c) 3
 
Thanks!
Edited by Zaltyre

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I would be one of the last people on this forum to turn to 'theme' in order to solve a rules question..

In my opinion, there is no point in enforcing a rule, if it is easily ignored/bypassed. To come back to my point, just un/equip the armor and voila!

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I would be one of the last people on this forum to turn to 'theme' in order to solve a rules question..

In my opinion, there is no point in enforcing a rule, if it is easily ignored/bypassed. To come back to my point, just un/equip the armor and voila!

Umequip/re-equip has no meaning. You equip everything atomically and at the same time, not in an order.

Hurry FFG, you're our only hope...

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I would be one of the last people on this forum to turn to 'theme' in order to solve a rules question..

In my opinion, there is no point in enforcing a rule, if it is easily ignored/bypassed. To come back to my point, just un/equip the armor and voila!

Umequip/re-equip has no meaning. You equip everything atomically and at the same time, not in an order.

Hurry FFG, you're our only hope...

 

No, you only equip the items you choose to equip at the start of your turn. Skills are always active.

edit: unless you need to exhaust the skills first of course

Edited by Ceasarsalad101

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I would be one of the last people on this forum to turn to 'theme' in order to solve a rules question..

In my opinion, there is no point in enforcing a rule, if it is easily ignored/bypassed. To come back to my point, just un/equip the armor and voila!

Umequip/re-equip has no meaning. You equip everything atomically and at the same time, not in an order.

Hurry FFG, you're our only hope...

 

No, you only equip the items you choose to equip at the start of your turn. Skills are always active.

edit: unless you need to exhaust the skills first of course

 

 

Ah right, I'm with you now. For a sec forgot one of these was a skill and not two pieces of equipment in conflict.

 

That being said, I still don't understand your comment about not being able to fathom the speed being 3. If Iron Blooded is "always active" as it is a skill, and by this we mean active even prior to the equip phase, then right before we go into the equip phase our speed is 5-1 = 4 (5 being printed on the character sheet). Then in the equip phase we equip the Stone Armor which says reduce character speed to 3. This seems to be the strongest argument yet for the speed being 3.

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I would be one of the last people on this forum to turn to 'theme' in order to solve a rules question..

In my opinion, there is no point in enforcing a rule, if it is easily ignored/bypassed. To come back to my point, just un/equip the armor and voila!

Umequip/re-equip has no meaning. You equip everything atomically and at the same time, not in an order.

Hurry FFG, you're our only hope...

 

No, you only equip the items you choose to equip at the start of your turn. Skills are always active.

edit: unless you need to exhaust the skills first of course

 

 

Ah right, I'm with you now. For a sec forgot one of these was a skill and not two pieces of equipment in conflict.

 

That being said, I still don't understand your comment about not being able to fathom the speed being 3. If Iron Blooded is "always active" as it is a skill, and by this we mean active even prior to the equip phase, then right before we go into the equip phase our speed is 5-1 = 4 (5 being printed on the character sheet). Then in the equip phase we equip the Stone Armor which says reduce character speed to 3. This seems to be the strongest argument yet for the speed being 3.

 

Precisely that. In Descent things are (generally) resolved completely before moving to the next. 

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Ok guys, no meme war here ^^

 

I think we all agree that we found a point where the game designers simply weren't clear enougth and clarification is reqired. Let's wait for the answer.

There's nothing wrong with intelligently analyzing the rules. Which is exactly what everyone here did, while being respectful and raising good points. I, for one, enjoyed the conversation. Kudos to those that contributed.

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Again, I can't understand why this is even a question.  The armor reduces speed to a set level WHILE EQUIPPED.  Unequip the armor and the Ironbound ability reduces speed to 4.  Equip the armor, speed becomes 3.  End of story.  That is obviously the most beneficial scenario for the hero, and since the "Equip" step of the hero turn comes DURING the campaign, there is never a situation where the ability would be gained BEFORE the hero would have the option of re-equiping the armor (like mid-activation).  This particular conflict is not an issue.

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@cdj0902 Sure, I agree. I just got the impression that, after analyzing the matter from different angles, the rules as written are in this matter either wired or unclear and that there is no definite answer

 

So I am very interested in the official answer from FFG.

 

Nevertheless, It was a good question and discussion indeed.

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Color me surprised.

 

I asked:

 

How do negative modifiers ("Apply -1 to your Speed") such as on the skill "Iron Blooded" work with equipment or other abilities which reduce your speed (for example, "Stone Armor")? Specifically, what will a hero's "final" Speed be if he has both the Iron Blooded skill and Stone Armor equipped if the speed printed on his hero sheet is:
 
a) 5
b) 4
c) 3
 
Thanks!
 
And I received:

 

Abilities or effects that change a figure’s Speed are applied before modifiers to the Speed. So, first their speed is set to X, then +/- Speed is applied; both a, b, and c = 2.
 
Thanks,
 
Nathan Hajek
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
nhajek@fantasyflightgames.com
Edited by Zaltyre

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Color me surprised.

 

I asked:

 

How do negative modifiers ("Apply -1 to your Speed") such as on the skill "Iron Blooded" work with equipment or other abilities which reduce your speed (for example, "Stone Armor")? Specifically, what will a hero's "final" Speed be if he has both the Iron Blooded skill and Stone Armor equipped if the speed printed on his hero sheet is:
 
a) 5
b) 4
c) 3
 
Thanks!
 
And I received:

 

Abilities or effects that change a figure’s Speed are applied before modifiers to the Speed. So, first their speed is set to X, then +/- Speed is applied; both a, b, and c = 2.
 
Thanks,
 
Nathan Hajek
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
nhajek@fantasyflightgames.com

 

lol wow. That needs to be in a faq.  :ph34r: It come at this from a completely different angle than any of the discussions leading up to this point. Thanks Zaltyre!

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... I don't see why it's so confusing...

 

Do you mean aside from the fact that the justification for the ruling is nowhere in the rules up to this point? Or that in this thread alone we have 4 or 5 equally valid alternate explanations, none of which end up being relevant?

 

I'm glad we have an answer, and even more glad we have a guiding principle for answering similar questions in the future- but this case was anything but clear cut.

Edited by Zaltyre

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... I don't see why it's so confusing...

 

Do you mean aside from the fact that the justification for the ruling is nowhere in the rules up to this point? Or that in this thread alone we have 4 or 5 equally valid alternate explanations, none of which end up being relevant?

 

I'm glad we have an answer, and even more glad we have a guiding principle for answering similar questions in the future- but this case was anything but clear cut.

 

I feel like everyone else is over complicating it. The armour makes your speed 3, your speed is reduced by 1, therefore your speed is 2.

 

This is how it'd work in other similar games, this is how it works in computer games, etc. The other way, ordering that you reduce your speed first and then the armour is applied keeping it at 3, seems like the exception and would be confusing if it did work like that.

 

I'm not saying that things like this are okay to be exempt from being covered in the rules explicitly but the way you've interpreted it feels overly complicated and not the way it "feels" like it should work.

Edited by Taear

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