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If a figure is defeated (during step 7 of the attack) the ability is no longer in the game when after the attack resolves abilities are triggered. Also, the figure is no longer on the map to draw line of sight from.

Edited by a1bert

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If a figure is defeated (during step 7 of the attack) the ability is no longer in the game when after the attack resolves abilities are triggered. Also, the figure is no longer on the map to draw line of sight from.

I knew I would get it wrong, I'm about 50/50 on most rules, so I won't post anymore rules thoughts, I don't think I know the steps or have even seen these steps written out.

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Okay, I've seen that line up (all 3 inches in the book) just not this extra detail:  :blink:

 

During attacks the resolution order for abilities with the same trigger are determined by the timing resolution rules.

Rules Reference Guide, Timing wrote:
Numerous game effects have the possibility of triggering at the same time. If this occurs, use the following to determine the order in which these effects are resolved:

In a campaign, resolve mission rules first, followed by effects
triggered by the Imperial player, then effects triggered by Rebel
players.

In a skirmish, resolve mission rules first, followed by effects
triggered by the player with initiative, then effects triggered by his
opponent.

During an attack, in both a campaign and a skirmish, resolve
mission rules first, followed by effects triggered by the attacker,
then effects triggered by the defender.

If there are multiple abilities in a 'class', the respective player decides the order to perform the abilities. During the campaign the imperial player decides the order of resolution of the mission/core rules.

This post lists the timing (Mission/Attacker/Defender) for abilities during attacks from deployment cards, class cards, conditions and some items for the Campaign. (I may be missing some, especially from the agenda cards, but you get the drift).

Also, although not explicitly specified in the ability, most abilities have a very specific step in (or before) which to perform them depending on their effect.

Special Situations Regarding Attacks wrote:
· Any ability that is resolved "while attacking" or "while defending" can be used at any point during the attack with the following exceptions:
-- An ability that adds dice to a dice pool can only be used immediately before step 2 of the attack. (also: abilities that remove dice)
-- An ability that allows a player to reroll dice can only be used during step 3 of the attack.
-- An ability that allows a player to modify die results can only be used during step 4 of the attack. (add or remove symbols or accuracy)


So, if you are unsure in which abilities must be triggered or passed (if you choose not to use the ability you must pass in the correct order - you cannot back up the game if the other side has revealed their intentions), check this list.

Note: All surge abilities can always be triggered during the attack (including Blast, Cleave and Condition keywords) even if they end up doing nothing. But Blast, Cleave and Condition Keywords, and only Blast, Cleave and Condition Keywords (Focus, Hide, Stun, Bleed, Weaken) require that the target suffered damage from the step 7 of the attack to be performed after the attack resolves.

Also note the difference between the Condition Keywords (Focus, Hide, Stun, Bleed, Weaken) and the conditions themselves (Focused, Hidden, Stunned, Bleeding, Weakened). If a surge ability gives the condition itself (like "become Hidden" or "Choose an adjacent friendly Trooper, that figure becomes focused."), it does not require that the target suffered damage from the attack.

Also, Pierce does not remove symbols or accuracy, so it does not happen during step 4. Pierce is taken into account in step 7. Calculate Damage. (A ruling exists for the Heavy Armor command card confirming the wording on the Rules Reference Guide.)

Also note that miss is not equal to not suffering damage. Miss is caused by a dodge rolled or insufficient accuracy and causes the target to suffer 0 damage from the attack. Not suffering any damage can also happen if there are more (unpierced) blocks than damage results.

Attacks
1.Declare Target
* Mission/Core Rules
* Attacker
- Relentless
- Trick Shot (before declaring, for LoS)
- Target Acquired (before declaring, for LoS)
- Combat Spotter (for LoS)
- Extended Haft (Reach)
- Priority Target
- Ambush, Execute
- Practical Solutions
- Power Converter (if using Practical Solutions)
- Trench Fighter
- Vicious Strike
- Ferocity
- For the Cause!
- Adrenal Vapor
- Coordinated Attack
- Point Blank Shot
- Master Operative
- Mercenary Ties
- Overcharger, Vibrogenerator
- Battle Discipline
- Shock and Awe, Show of Force
- No Quarter
- Explosive Munitions (dice pool), Heavy Firepower (dice pool, +3dmg)
- Versatile Attack (dice pool), Exacting Strike (dice pool)
- Surprise Attack
- Falling Leaf
- Precise Strike (dice pool)
- Executioner, Imperial Dedication
* Defender
- Take Cover
- Roll With It
- Decoy
- Quickdraw Holster
- Shadow Armor
* Other
- Overwatch
- Prey Upon Doubt, Oppression? step 4?
- Keep the Peace (friendly to defender)

2.Roll Dice
* Mission/Core Rules
- Focused (dice pool - before rolling)
* Attacker
- Front Line (before rolling)
- Arsenal, Epic Arsenal (dice pool - before rolling)
- Adaptive Weapons (dice pool - before rolling)
* Defender
- Cloaking Device (dice pool - before rolling)

3.Rerolls
* Mission/Core Rules
* Attacker
- Inspiring (Luke Skywalker)
- Resourceful, Gambit
- Deadly Precision
- Force Adept
- Lady Luck (all)
- Extra Ammunition
- Targeting Computer
- Squad Training
- Versatily Weaponry
- Strike Force, Assassins
- Single-Minded
* Defender
- Cower
- Resourceful, Gambit
- Foresight, Defensive Stance
- Trophy Armor
- Reinforced Helmet
- Assault Armor
- Armor Corps

4.Apply Modifiers
* Mission/Core Rules
- Hidden
- Weakened
* Attacker
- Havoc Shot with Veteran Prowess (to get +1dmg)
- Aim
- Fury
- Set Your Sights
- Clear-Minded
- Weapon Expert
- Gunslinger
- Cheap Shot (if Quick Draw)
- Unstoppable
- Military Efficiency
- Called Shot
- Target Acquired (if used in step 1.)
- Vibrobayonet
- Structural Weakness
- Mon Cala Special Forces (+1 Acc)
- Hunt Them Down
- Battle Vision
- Tactical Display, Balanced Hilt, Marksman Barrel, Extended Haft (Pierce 1), Spread Barrel, Shock Emitter, all innate +Acc and +1dmg etc.
- Scattergun, ACP Scattergun
- Contempt
- Combat Veterans, Shock Troopers
- Superior Augments, Experimental Arms
- Optimal Tactics
- Pinpoint Accuracy, Sharpshooters, Find the Weakness
- Embody the Force (exhaust to add hit)
- Lead from the Front
- Other inherent abilities that add or remove symbols without having a cost.
* Defender
- Protector, Sentinel, Distracting
- Cunning
- Lucky
- Slippery
- Duck and Weave
- Superior Positioning
- Wookiee Loyalty
- Military Efficiency
- Into the Fray
- Energy Shield
- Scout's Guidance
- Mon Cala Special Forces (evade)
- Improvised Cover
- Old Wounds
- Combat Coat, Laminate Armor, High-Impact Guard, Personal Shields
- Composite Plating
- Defensible
- Defensive
- Disposable
- Reactive Armor
- Knowledge of Attack
- True Shadow
- Covert Operative (convert Hidden to Block)
- Embody the Force (exhaust to add block)
- Other inherent abilities that add or remove symbols without having a cost.
* Other
- Create Opening
- Force Illusion (last chance so that Hidden affects this attack)
- Professional Aide

5.Spend Surges
* Mission/Core Rules
* Attacker
- Crushing Blow (last chance to activate)
- Field Surgeon (last chance to activate)
- Fell Swoop (last chance to activate)
- Study of Enemies (move recon token - does not affect attack pool, because happens after Apply Modifiers step)
- spend 1 surge to recover 1 strain - happens immediately (heroes, one per attack, if the hero has not suffered any strain, recover 1 damage instead)
- recover 2 damage from Automated Repairs (not confirmed, but analogous to the above ruling)
- actual spending of surges for surge abilities
* Defender

6.Check Accuracy
- If not enough accuracy, the attack misses.

7.Calculate & Apply Damage
* Mission/Core Rules
- If the attack misses, the target suffers 0 damage in this step.
- Pierce is resolved during this step.
* Attacker
- Havoc Shot (last chance to activate here! without Veteran Prowess.)
- Vibrosword (1

pic2503568.png

for Pierce 1 - last chance to activate here!)
- Intimidation
- Heavy Pressure
- Advance (friendly to attacker)
- Spectrum Scanner (friendly to att.)
- Mon Cala Special Forces (friendly to att.,recover/focused)
- Combat Momentum (friendly to attacker)
* Defender
- Power to Shields (last chance here, before suffering damage!)
- Combat Suit
- Last Stand
- Failsafe (when has suffered damage upto Health, which can be because of Blast, Cleave, and many other non-attack actions as well)
- Parting Shot
- Field Surgeon (friendly to defender, lower part - interrupt)
- Miracle Worker (friendly to defender, instead of defeating)
- Executor, Vengeance, Forward Vengeance (friendly to defender)
- Noble Sacrifice (friendly to defender)
(Actually, the abilities should be divided into two: just before suffering damage, and abilities triggering from suffering damage or being defeated.)


After attack Resolves
* Mission/Core Rules
- Blast, Cleave, Condition keywords
* Imperial
- Recover damage (keyword)
- Arc Blasters
* Rebel
- Fell Swoop
- Recover damage (keyword)
- Opportunist
- Suppressive Fire (if Havoc Shot used)
- Sidewinder
- Get Cocky
- Brutal Cleave
- Snap Kick
- No Escape
- Execute
- Stay Down
- Return Fire (Han Solo)
- Rage
- Figurehead
- Adrenaline Rush
- Quick As A Whip
* Rebel (Other)
- Jeswandi Training
- Fuel Injection
- Peacemaker, Life Debt
- Covert Operative (no damage suffered gives Hidden)

These are not strictly with the trigger after attack resolves, so they are probably happening only after performing an attack.
After Performing an attack
- Sustained Fire (after an imperial figure resolves an attack)
- Surgical Strike (after an imperial figure resolves an attack)
- Staggering Blow (after Gaarkhan resolves an attack)
- Rampage (after resolving Charge, which comes after after performing an attack)

 

 

This would be another 3 pages in the booklet if included.  Of course this is just Campaign, there is some crossover, but some differences as well.  I'll try to highlight the Skirmish side when I get a bit more time.

This is good info.

Edited by buckero0

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I, too, am not sold on the new Luke. But one benefit is that when you move him into the fray, they had better devote a lot of attention to him. Two (and potentially four with SoS) attacks is not something to dismiss, whereas you could let old Luke take his shot and live with that if you were killing off everyone else. So new Luke forces the other player to make tougher decisions. Just make sure you make the opponent pay while he's taking Luke on (I envision a set of focused eSabs marching up behind him).

-ryanjamal

See this is a problem with doing things in a vacuum. You're assuming that old Luke only gets 1 attack when he can have 2 with son of sky walker from an impressive range. Not to mention that old Luke combos with leia perfectly so he would be getting 2 shots a turn easily enough etc.

I'd be interested in what sort of lists people ar considering putting around new Luke. That's part of the issue for me, he can run off and do damage but the sorts of guys who would be with him don't really boost him. He's harder to focus while off on his own etc. I'm ok with this reality when it's a 7pt obiwan or a reliably hidden davith. But when it's the central figure in my team I'm not so confident.

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 You're assuming that old Luke only gets 1 attack when he can have 2 with son of sky walker from an impressive range. 

 

 

Why is that an argument? New Luke gets 4 attacks with Son of Skywalker. Old Luke can't finish off 3 troopers by himself. New Luke can. Old Luke can't run 8 spaces around other figures and attack the back line. New Luke can. 

 

They are different. They have different roles and they have to be played differently. If you've ever used a melee high damage dealer like Vader, RGC, Obi-wan or Davith, then you'll easily see the huge potential of New Luke. 

 

I'll be trying something like 

New Luke (12)

Obi-Wan (7)

2x eSabs (14)

Gideon (3)

C3PO (2)

Sumggler (2)

 

Last 2 are debatable. It's a fast list. It hits like a truck at short range and has lots of support and control. I'd like to see some better force user cards for Rebels as their unique ones are kind of boring. I'd also like to stick Davith in there, perhaps he can replace one of the Sabs and bring in an upgrade. 

 

Old Luke does what he does well. He's a great support unit that's tough to kill and gives out much needed rerolls. That's his big benefit. 

Both have similar attacks except New Luke sacrifices range for consistency and Pierce. And that's before deflect which is not something to be taken lightly. 

 

I admit that Luke pairs well with Leia... but really... all Leia does is bring back command cards and gives Luke another attack. That's pretty expensive for 8 pts. Her attack isn't great and she doesn't pair well with anyone else except Han, Chewie and Fenn, all of which are just as expensive (if not more). I'd rather New Luke + 6 points than Old Luke + Leia. 

Edited by Inquisitorsz

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Isn't Leia worth it for the action economy (2 attacks for 1 action) and command card recursion alone?

 

Well yes and no. 2 attacks for 1 action is great, but not amazing if one of those attacks is terrible. Leia has probably the worst 3 dice attack in the game. She can often roll 1 damage and a bunch of surges. She's a pain to kill with her built in evade and recover, but she puts out very little damage usually. So do you want to give Luke another attack with some additional damage, or just take a whole other damage dealer like Obi-wan? There's pros and cons to both. 

 

The command card return is nice but it's very random, you have to be able to mill through your deck very quickly otherwise it's only strong at the end of the game. If she's still alive towards the end, you're probably already winning anyway. 

The real question is .... is that worth 8 points? 

 

I think the problem with Leia is that she needs a list written around her. She needs someone good to give the extra attack to, she needs good command cards to bring back and she needs some way to get through cards quickly like RHC or R2D2. As a support character, she's expensive. You get lots of utility from Gideon for example for only 3 points. The other problem is there aren't many good 3 dice attacks on the rebel side. You really want to get the most out of her extra free attack, so you need to pair her with an expensive hero like Luke.... at which point that's almost half your army. 

 

She'd be much better if Rebels had something like HKs or Elite Probe Droids or even AT-ST for example. That's when that extra attack is amazing. She's like an elite officer that adds some damage to the attack and can bring back command cards. It's not bad, but it's not a must take. You don't see elite officers often for the same reason. They are great in some situations eg, pairing with expensive units like Vader or AT-ST, but not great paired with troopers. 

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Vader is supposed to be stronger than Luke, hits like a truck, and is supposed to be extremely difficult to take down. Adding defensible means he's pretty much immune to 2-dice attacks and 3-dice attacks do about 3~4 dmg on him (lowest 0, highest 5, consistent 3~4)

 

I think the problem is that Vader is supposed to be better than Luke in every way, but with their stats right now it's very likely that Vader's going to be crushed like a bug by his son...looking at that pierce 3. Adding defensible means Vader now stands a chance to not receive a 6 damage hit from Luke

 

Well, to be fair, Vader is supposed to be stronger than young Luke (which he is, I think, even if he's a less efficient use of points).

 

But Jedi Luke broke Vader's defenses, took his hand, and could have killed him, so...  ;)

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Only when he rages out at the mention of his sister.

Hardly an accurate baseline for their capabilities at any given moment

And Vader was pretty old and robotic by that point anyways

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Only when he rages out at the mention of his sister.

Hardly an accurate baseline for their capabilities at any given moment

And Vader was pretty old and robotic by that point anyways

While all the above is true, I'm not sure I agree that's an inadequate baseline for their abilities. It seems like it sells Luke short to chalk his very thorough victory up to just a mere adrenaline rush and Vader's wiring getting old. After all, the Emperor was concerned in ESB that Luke could destroy both he and Vader if Luke became a Jedi, and that's precisely what he became in ROTJ. Plus, Vader actually was old in ROTJ...

However the ultimate heirarchy shakes out, I don't have any objection if Jedi Luke has the potential in him to beat the stuffing out of Vader, since that's what he, in fact, did. Maybe that creates a competitive balance problem from a game design/ meta perspective, but it's not a lore problem. Or at least it's not for me. :)

Edited by Rythbryt

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