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acidReign

Why the Jumpmaster nerf is bad for x-wing (hear me out)

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About Luke... guys... he only modifyes a single focus result to an evade, and that is it. Luke is bad compared to other X-Wing pilots, even Biggs is better. Luke won't kill much and his ability alone won't keep him safe. Luke + R2D2 is NOT unbeatable, far from that. Poe kick his ass, Wedge kick his ass, Biggs kick his ass. Don't blame me, I didn't made him weak, lol. 

 

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or not.

 

Edit:

 

Luke (Pilot Ability) > Poe (Pilot Ability)

 

T70 > T65

 

Poe + T70 > Luke + T65

 

 

But in a hypothetical situation where Luke was 31pts and not 28pts, and was in a T-70 instead of a T-65 ...

 

Luke + T70 > Poe + T70

 

 

Luke's ability is so inarguably better than Poe's that like...I'm kinda of astounded that there's any contention here. If you don't understand why it's good to have you defensive condition trigger when you bump or otherwise are unable to take actions, ask 3 time world champ Paul Heaver why he took R2-D2 over R5-P9 in 2015. Your answer lies there.

Edited by CBMarkham

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Jesus, people still compare the cost of Jumpmaster to utterly useless, overcosted ships? I wonder if you compared the TIE/fo to the pre-buff Scyk, and the T-70 to the Starviper when they came out. Do you think those ships are OP, too?

Wow. Who pissed in your chips? For the record, I would compare the TIE/fo to a standard TIE, and T-70 to T-65 for all that it matters. So many people angry and teary-eyed about the meta and power balance, completely overlooking the practicality of a **** good ship.

EDIT: Censored "d-amn" and not "pissed"?

Noone pissed in my chips. I was trying make a point that you are using double standard. The comparison between the cost of the Jumpmaster and ORS comes up again and again and again. It has been pointed out several times that it is a bad baseline. If you compare JM5K to a notoriously bad ship, than you should do the same with other ships. Compare EVERY ship in the game to a really bad one, or compare JM5K to a good one. Otherwise your argument cannot be taken seriously.

Edit: FYI, I agree that the Jumpmaster is a very good ship, despite the nerf. But it has nothing to do with the ORS or WSF.

How about just comparing it to a ship that was seen competitively before it came out? It's two points more than a Kwing. For those two points you get an extra hull and agility as well as a far superior dial, not to mention much better upgrade options.

That's a much better comparison, however you forgot the large base, the turret slot and SLAM of K-wing and the JM5K barrel roll.

I did mention upgrade options. Ive found large bases have and drawbacks that tend to at least equal the advantages out (larger firing arc and better blocking vs needing more space for maneuver and more easily targeted). I think the action bars are very comparable. Edited by AlexW

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About Luke... guys... he only modifyes a single focus result to an evade, and that is it. Luke is bad compared to other X-Wing pilots, even Biggs is better. Luke won't kill much and his ability alone won't keep him safe. Luke + R2D2 is NOT unbeatable, far from that. Poe kick his ass, Wedge kick his ass, Biggs kick his ass. Don't blame me, I didn't made him weak, lol. 

 

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or not.

 

Edit:

 

Luke (Pilot Ability) > Poe (Pilot Ability)

 

T70 > T65

 

Poe + T70 > Luke + T65

 

 

But in a hypothetical situation where Luke was 31pts and not 28pts, and was in a T-70 instead of a T-65 ...

 

Luke + T70 > Poe + T70

 

 

Luke's ability is so inarguably better than Poe's that like...I'm kinda of astounded that there's any contention here. If you don't understand why it's good to have you defensive condition trigger when you bump or otherwise are unable to take actions, ask 3 time world champ Paul Heaver why he took R2-D2 over R5-P9 in 2015. Your answer lies there.

 

 

I see your point, but there are differences... R2-D2 works better for Luke, while R5-P9 works better for Poe. Luke is strong defensively this way, but his attacks will depend to have focus or target locks. Poe in the other hand, can keep the focus to modify one attack die, can modify one defensive die and can later spend that focus to recover a shield. This way, Poe ability is overall better than Luke. You only mentioned the worst case scenario before, when Poe doesn't have a focus to trigger his ability. As for Wedge, his ability is very good offensively speaking and he is a PS9, just lacks defense as it can be shot down pretty easyly without a support. And that is where Biggs enter, he can give protection to any ace of your team. I like to play with Poe + Wedge + Biggs, because I don't see Luke better than Poe or Wedge. But there is nothing wrong if you run with the classic trio, Luke + Wedge + Biggs. 

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Luke (Pilot Ability) > Poe (Pilot Ability)

T70 > T65

Poe + T70 > Luke + T65

But in a hypothetical situation where Luke was 31pts and not 28pts, and was in a T-70 instead of a T-65 ...

Luke + T70 > Poe + T70

Luke's ability is so inarguably better than Poe's that like...I'm kinda of astounded that there's any contention here.

Just imagine Luke's ability joined to AutoThrusters. Luke, with a native reposition action. Bah! Anyway. Luke has a better ability. Full stop.

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Luke (Pilot Ability) > Poe (Pilot Ability)

T70 > T65

Poe + T70 > Luke + T65

But in a hypothetical situation where Luke was 31pts and not 28pts, and was in a T-70 instead of a T-65 ...

Luke + T70 > Poe + T70

Luke's ability is so inarguably better than Poe's that like...I'm kinda of astounded that there's any contention here.

Just imagine Luke's ability joined to AutoThrusters. Luke, with a native reposition action. Bah! Anyway. Luke has a better ability. Full stop.

 

Yeah, imagine Luke with Autothrusters and with Advanced Sensors and Push To Limit and R2-D2... but yeah, things don't work that way to prove anything, that is almost an E-Wing :P

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Luke (Pilot Ability) > Poe (Pilot Ability)

T70 > T65

Poe + T70 > Luke + T65

But in a hypothetical situation where Luke was 31pts and not 28pts, and was in a T-70 instead of a T-65 ...

Luke + T70 > Poe + T70

Luke's ability is so inarguably better than Poe's that like...I'm kinda of astounded that there's any contention here.

Just imagine Luke's ability joined to AutoThrusters. Luke, with a native reposition action. Bah! Anyway. Luke has a better ability. Full stop.

Yeah, imagine Luke with Autothrusters and with Advanced Sensors and Push To Limit and R2-D2... but yeah, things don't work that way to prove anything, that is almost an E-Wing :P

I concede. This cat is trolling at masterful levels. Too OP for me.

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Luke (Pilot Ability) > Poe (Pilot Ability)

T70 > T65

Poe + T70 > Luke + T65

But in a hypothetical situation where Luke was 31pts and not 28pts, and was in a T-70 instead of a T-65 ...

Luke + T70 > Poe + T70

Luke's ability is so inarguably better than Poe's that like...I'm kinda of astounded that there's any contention here.

Just imagine Luke's ability joined to AutoThrusters. Luke, with a native reposition action. Bah! Anyway. Luke has a better ability. Full stop.

Yeah, imagine Luke with Autothrusters and with Advanced Sensors and Push To Limit and R2-D2... but yeah, things don't work that way to prove anything, that is almost an E-Wing :P

I concede. This cat is trolling at masterful levels. Too OP for me.

 

As I said before, no problem running with Luke, but I see better options.

That is an X-Wing btw >8o8<

Edited by Seabook

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If Palp Aces are so indestructible, how come new players that pick them up don't automatically start winning every game? Is it because maybe, just maybe, flying a pair of fragile ships that rely solely on their green dice for survival takes skill to use effectively?

Because palp aces aren't indestructible, that's why torp scouts were top tier. They could work well against the list. the problem is, they also worked well against just about every other lists. Palp aces is a relatively balanced list. Palpy is a little broken, but he is riding around in the space cow, so it kind of makes up for it.

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How about just comparing it to a ship that was seen competitively before it came out? It's two points more than a Kwing. For those two points you get an extra hull and agility as well as a far superior dial, not to mention much better upgrade options.

That's a much better comparison, however you forgot the large base, the turret slot and SLAM of K-wing and the JM5K barrel roll.

I did mention upgrade options. Ive found large bases have and drawbacks that tend to at least equal the advantages out (larger firing arc and better blocking vs needing more space for maneuver and more easily targeted). I think the action bars are very comparable.

 

I want to point out that the K-wing and the Jumpmaster actually have the same health, so for 2 points you get less ordinance, no turret, a salvaged astromech, an illicit, an ept, and you replace the Slam action with a better dial and barrel roll, and get a large base.  

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It's interesting you see it as a nerf rather than a fix. Scouts were so broken on release it was crazy. There was literally nothing wrong with them from loadout to dial, only thing that let them down was PS and that was fixed by using deadeye. So I think that the new rule is good for the game. As to Biggs, I don't see this as a bad thing either. I nominate my weapon, choose a target. Check for valid targets with that weapon. What's wrong with that? You believe Biggs should override your own weapon selection?

They could have errated a lot more, give palp a range restriction, Manaroo too. I don't have an issue with Zuckuss, I don't like infinite token stacking though. People can still use the U Boat list, just now as intended maybe.

palp range restriction would be good. range3 or under to use his ability on that ship seems balanced. even range 2 but thats harsher and maybe overly restrictive?

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I remember when they spoiled the Emperor Palpatine during spring 2015, the forums were roaring with complains saying that Palpatine was garbage for 8 points and 2 crew slots. The most expensive card in the game, taking two of the most useful upgrade slots, and limited to a grand total of 3 ships: the slumbering lambda, the expensive and exposed decimator, and the Raider itself. And all of that for modifying just one die!

 

Then the Imperial Raider expansion came out at the end of the summer, and people starting playing with Palpatine, and it wasn't so bad.

Of course, the stresshog was running rampant around the battlefields, as well as flocks of blocking and "feedbacking" Z-95s, tactician YV-666 and K-wings, conner nets, TLTs, regenerating Poes, and Vader decimators, crackshot TIEs, even massed B-wings... There was little that old Palps could do to keep Soontir, Vader, Whisper and, (early 2016) newcomer Omega Leader, safe forever before all of those threats.

 

Then in spring 2016 the 3 Jumpmasters dropped the bomb (or the torpedo) and turned most of those into dust. Of course, old Palpatine and pals couldn't be happier.

But now the party is over. I am pretty sure someone will say, in 2017, that Palpatine is overpriced garbage again.

Edited by Azrapse

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Would be interested to know what the maths is on hitting:

Three dice, focus attack, one re-roll against:

Soontir with no actions due to stress or bumped and only Palp and autothrusters? (So essentially 61 point Soontir defence)

Soontir with no actions due to stress or bumped and only Palp (59 point Soontir defence)

3 dice with focus and a one die reroll (let's say predator)....

Okay.

such an attack has:

  • 0.4% chance of rolling no hits
  • 4.7% chance of rolling one hit
  • 20.7% chance of rolling two hits
  • 74.2% chance of rolling three hits

Soontir with just unmodified dice and palpatine gets:

  • 100% chance of rolling one evade or more
  • 84.7% chance of rolling two evades or more
  • 48.1% chance of rolling three evades or more

Which means your odds of not hitting Soontir is:

  • Your odds of fluffing your dice entirely and him not even rolling green dice - 0.4%
  • Your odds of rolling one hit and him (inevitably) dodging it - 4.7% x 100% = 4.7%
  • Your odds of rolling two hits and him dodging it - 20.7% x 84.7% = 17.5%
  • Your odds of rolling three hits and him dodging it - 74.2% x 48.1% = 35.7%

That gives you a total of 0.4% + 4.7% + 17.5% + 35.7% = 58.3% - so Soontir has just over a 50/50 chance of dodging a focused attack with predator, even if you block him. Which is why it's so critical not just to block him but to get some other bugger(s) to hit him from range 1 at the same time.

 

If you throw autothrusters into the mix, the attack roll remains the same but firstly (a) autothrusters apply and (b) logically you are at range 3, so there's an extra green die too.

 

This then gives Soontir:

  • 100% chance of rolling one evade or more
  • 98.8% chance of rolling two evades or more
  • 84.3% chance of rolling three evades or more

Which means your odds of missing the Baron now increase to:

 

  • Your odds of fluffing your dice entirely and him not even rolling green dice - 0.4%
  • Your odds of rolling one hit and him (inevitably) dodging it - 4.7% x 100% = 4.7%
  • Your odds of rolling two hits and him dodging it - 20.7% x 98.8% = 20.5%
  • Your odds of rolling three hits and him dodging it - 74.2% x 84.3% = 62.6%

That gives you a total of 0.4% + 4.7% + 20.5% + 62.6% = 88.2% - meaning you've got less than a one-in-five chance of hitting him, even if he's 'vulnerable' after being hit with a stressbot. Of course, at range 3, concentrating multiple arcs on his possible positions should be easier. 

 

It should be noted that working out the odds of hitting soontir with 'one attack' is a bit of a wasted exercise. Essentially, if you've only got one shot on the guy, you should assume you are going to miss. Equally, if he's fully token-ed up, if you have three or less guys shooting, assume you are going to miss. You need to prevent his actions and get multiple range 2 shots, or one good range 1 shot, or be able to mess with his dice something rotten, to 'reliably' hit him.

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Would be interested to know what the maths is on hitting:

Three dice, focus attack, one re-roll against:

Soontir with no actions due to stress or bumped and only Palp and autothrusters? (So essentially 61 point Soontir defence)

Soontir with no actions due to stress or bumped and only Palp (59 point Soontir defence)

3 dice with focus and a one die reroll (let's say predator)....

Okay.

such an attack has:

  • 0.4% chance of rolling no hits
  • 4.7% chance of rolling one hit
  • 20.7% chance of rolling two hits
  • 74.2% chance of rolling three hits
Soontir with just unmodified dice and palpatine gets:

  • 100% chance of rolling one evade or more
  • 84.7% chance of rolling two evades or more
  • 48.1% chance of rolling three evades or more
Which means your odds of not hitting Soontir is:

  • Your odds of fluffing your dice entirely and him not even rolling green dice - 0.4%
  • Your odds of rolling one hit and him (inevitably) dodging it - 4.7% x 100% = 4.7%
  • Your odds of rolling two hits and him dodging it - 20.7% x 84.7% = 17.5%
  • Your odds of rolling three hits and him dodging it - 74.2% x 48.1% = 35.7%
That gives you a total of 0.4% + 4.7% + 17.5% + 35.7% = 58.3% - so Soontir has just over a 50/50 chance of dodging a focused attack with predator, even if you block him. Which is why it's so critical not just to block him but to get some other bugger(s) to hit him from range 1 at the same time.

 

If you throw autothrusters into the mix, the attack roll remains the same but firstly (a) autothrusters apply and (b) logically you are at range 3, so there's an extra green die too.

 

This then gives Soontir:

  • 100% chance of rolling one evade or more
  • 98.8% chance of rolling two evades or more
  • 84.3% chance of rolling three evades or more
Which means your odds of missing the Baron now increase to:

 

  • Your odds of fluffing your dice entirely and him not even rolling green dice - 0.4%
  • Your odds of rolling one hit and him (inevitably) dodging it - 4.7% x 100% = 4.7%
  • Your odds of rolling two hits and him dodging it - 20.7% x 98.8% = 20.5%
  • Your odds of rolling three hits and him dodging it - 74.2% x 84.3% = 62.6%
That gives you a total of 0.4% + 4.7% + 20.5% + 62.6% = 88.2% - meaning you've got less than a one-in-five chance of hitting him, even if he's 'vulnerable' after being hit with a stressbot. Of course, at range 3, concentrating multiple arcs on his possible positions should be easier. 

 

It should be noted that working out the odds of hitting soontir with 'one attack' is a bit of a wasted exercise. Essentially, if you've only got one shot on the guy, you should assume you are going to miss. Equally, if he's fully token-ed up, if you have three or less guys shooting, assume you are going to miss. You need to prevent his actions and get multiple range 2 shots, or one good range 1 shot, or be able to mess with his dice something rotten, to 'reliably' hit him.

I really appreciate you taking the time to run the numbers on this!

I agree that a single shot is never going to be enough, that's why I use a homing missile, Guidence, 4-LOM and Zuckuss on VI Bossk with Glitterstim.

That's normally enough. :)

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How about just comparing it to a ship that was seen competitively before it came out? It's two points more than a Kwing. For those two points you get an extra hull and agility as well as a far superior dial, not to mention much better upgrade options.

That's a much better comparison, however you forgot the large base, the turret slot and SLAM of K-wing and the JM5K barrel roll.

I did mention upgrade options. Ive found large bases have and drawbacks that tend to at least equal the advantages out (larger firing arc and better blocking vs needing more space for maneuver and more easily targeted). I think the action bars are very comparable.

 

I want to point out that the K-wing and the Jumpmaster actually have the same health, so for 2 points you get less ordinance, no turret, a salvaged astromech, an illicit, an ept, and you replace the Slam action with a better dial and barrel roll, and get a large base.  

 

Except the comparison makes no sense whatsoever beacuse nobody ever uses generic K-wings except as bombers. This works thanks to SLAM, possibility of equipping advanced SLAM, putting Sabine on board and of course thanks to the bomb slots. In other words, it works because of all the things jumpmasters don't have.

You might as well compare generic TIE Phantom with Outer Rim Smuggler or something equally ridiculous. It provides literally zero useful information about either because the ships in question are used in completely different roles, provided they are used at all. 

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Take forever to kill and Decimator in the same sentence? :D

 

As an Ace Decimator Pilot, I see this kind of super bizarre mentality a lot.

 

Do people not know how to fly Decimators where you are? Or are they like, only 43pt vehicles for carrying around Vader, so they self implode? Do the Decimator pilots on your scene only try to joust TIE Swarms with them head on? 'Cause my opponents spend entire games trying to catch this supremely speedy monster around the map, only to have my ace sneak up behind them.

 

A well flown Decimator can take a long, long time to kill, even if it's not Kenkirk, and even without Ysanne in a crew slot.

 

I find it incredibly easy to chase down and kill a Decimator, even easier when he doesn't have Rebel Captive. (which they all should have, imho). Never had any issues with that, *shrug*

4 shields and the crits will stack up and cripple it in no time. My favourite Decimator game from memory saw the Decimator take double Weapon's Malfunction crits in the same round (this was before Palp).

So maybe you should share your strategy with the class? :D

 

Around here, they live a max of 6 turns after the first exchange..

3 turns on average.

 

At the top of my head, reasons I can think of is that many fly fast ships, turrets and there's lots of TLTs. Plus, the decimator dial is nowhere near as good as the Falcon's/JM5Ks. (it is still good mind you).

 

Palpatine is the card that started the crazy damage race in X-wing. Before him 3 dice attacks used to be good. It has had an effect of the same magnitude on the game, just in a bit more subtle ways.

 

Heh, no. That was Dash with his fully modded HLC and Fat Han.

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I'm going to be curious to see how the meta shakes out without U-boats and if the rebels can bring the emperor back under control.

Rebel Regen was allegedly the counter to Palp Aces. The Imps need to use most of their mods on defense which means their overall damage output is moderate at best. Well flown, regen can net you back a couple of shields per turn which turns the game into a battle of attrition the Imps struggle to win.

Scum (or Rebels with Snuggling Compartment or Sabine's Masterpiece) now have access to BMST which means the Aces cannot simply trigger PTL every turn without penalty. BMST is not a sure-fire ace-killer but it certainly makes their life a bit harder.

My feeling is that we will see Sontir and Inquisitor a bit less and will see more Palp-Defenders. They are less vulnerable to Stress and the free Evade tokens on the /x7 are almost on par with Regen.

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I'm going to be curious to see how the meta shakes out without U-boats and if the rebels can bring the emperor back under control.

Rebel Regen was allegedly the counter to Palp Aces. The Imps need to use most of their mods on defense which means their overall damage output is moderate at best. Well flown, regen can net you back a couple of shields per turn which turns the game into a battle of attrition the Imps struggle to win.

Scum (or Rebels with Snuggling Compartment or Sabine's Masterpiece) now have access to BMST which means the Aces cannot simply trigger PTL every turn without penalty. BMST is not a sure-fire ace-killer but it certainly makes their life a bit harder.

My feeling is that we will see Sontir and Inquisitor a bit less and will see more Palp-Defenders. They are less vulnerable to Stress and the free Evade tokens on the /x7 are almost on par with Regen.

 

Don't forget that Vessery and the Inquisitor can very well do enough damage to Rebel regen lists.

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Except the comparison makes no sense whatsoever beacuse nobody ever uses generic K-wings except as bombers. This works thanks to SLAM, possibility of equipping advanced SLAM, putting Sabine on board and of course thanks to the bomb slots. In other words, it works because of all the things jumpmasters don't have.

You might as well compare generic TIE Phantom with Outer Rim Smuggler or something equally ridiculous. It provides literally zero useful information about either because the ships in question are used in completely different roles, provided they are used at all.

Ships in this game aren't costed at all based on their roles. The discussion was about the basic cost of the jumpmaster (and whether it is still too cheap) compared to what you get for that.

If you don't think comparing two incredibly similar ships is relevant, especially when those ships have remarkably comparable additional traits, then your lens is far too narrow and limiting.

That's especially true since what you said is pretty much true of any generic in the game. At the point we're at, outside of maybe a single cheap filler, generics are taken for their access to upgrade slots and faction specific upgrades.

I think it's actually far less useful to compare the Jumpmaster to a ship like that ORS because while similarly costed, beyond that they're they so different in that ORS has nowhere near the same flexibility of upgrades or action bar. 

What ship do you think is a useful comparison?

Edited by AlexW

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I am in the camp that Manaroo is actually worse than Palpatine. Mindlink Manaroo is actually influencing more ships for bigger gains than Palp is and is almost the same cost (Cheapest Palp is 29, mindlink/k4 Manaroo is 31).

 

Palp can change a single dice in a turn, Manaroo can provide multiple ships with a focus via mindlink and then in the combat phase had out a focus and target lock to a ship that needs it and reacquire a focus via mindlink. Despite all that, Manaroo has a better dial, better action economy, is harder to kill and is actually useful in a fight.

 

A lot of people reference Soontir when making their case for Palp but Soontir is actually the extreme example, he was ALWAYS difficult to hit with his 3 to 4 evade, double focus an evade token combo, then he got Autothrusters, then he got Palp but people seem to forget that is essentially a 64 point defence, which you are attacking at its absolute prime so why shouldn't it survive your 23 point X wing? Now if Soontir was denied any of those, his reliance on that 29 point upgrade becomes greater. Would be interested to know what the maths is on hitting:

 

Three dice, focus attack, one re-roll against:

Soontir with no actions due to stress or bumped and only Palp and autothrusters? (So essentially 61 point Soontir defence)

Soontir with no actions due to stress or bumped and only Palp (59 point Soontir defence)

 

I'm not going to argue with you about Manaroo.  I don't think she's 'broken' like Palp is (because the ships she 'protects' cannot generate the same wall of impenetrable defense that imperial ships can, and its the combination of these effects that breaks the game).  Besides, Alex Davy is on record stating that they were maybe too aggressive in costing the Jumpmaster.  So yes, all of the jump master pilots are about 1 or 2 points cheaper than they should be (by the designer's own admission).  This from an interview he did a while back on a podcast.  But we've just had a jumpmaster nerf, and its unlikely we'll see another one unless Dengaroo goes on to dominate the competitive scene even more than torpedo scouts did, but uncertain, the future is, and all that.

 

But you are obviously not reading very carefully.  I did not say 'a 23 point x-wing' should be able to hurt soontir.  I said 100 points of a list should very well be able to hurt Soontir in a straight up joust!  And clearly palpatine makes that next to impossible.  I don't have the math, but Magnus Grendel made a stab at it above, and if you really, really can't see how Palp makes such a difference, you can test it.  Just break out your own dice or use VASSAL's and roll it.  Then you will see for yourself.  At range 3 its very much impossible.  At range 2, its still extremely unlikely to land a single damage with 4 guns each throwing 3 dice with a focus token.  

 

And it doesn't matter how many points the combo costs.  It could be 100 points and it would still be broken because if 100 points of firepower is unable to deal any damage to 100 points of defence, then it breaks the game.  This is why the game uses 'unbalanced' dice---the reds have a slightly better chance of dealing damage compared to mitigation on the greens.  I should think the reasons for that are obvious...

 

 

I understand that a lot of people struggle against a Palpatine lists but in my local area, it really isn't a problem so maybe that is why I don't seem to see it being so much of a issue. He is a good card, granted, but options around him are limited, he costs an obscene amount to include in a list and loses effectiveness that are taken.

 

As for just rolling dice in a vacuum, I agree when its like that, it becomes a little daunting at what they can avoid. I think people did the same with IG88B & C lists that operated on PtL and Autothrusters when they were first released. Even the almighty Dash was struggling against them, now I hardly see them on the table.

 

What I am trying to say is, Palpatine is counterable, for example, some lists that are run in our area:

 

VI Bossk with Zuckuss, 4-LOM, Denger, Glitterstim and Homing Missile. That engagement will happen at range 2, the victim will likely have focus/evade.

 

Homing Missile stops the evade token, there are no Autothrusters, 4-LOM stops the focus and then any and all successful evades are re-rolled. Bossk and Guidance chips means it is normally five damage they are trying to avoid. Lost count how many times that one shots Soontir, Inquisitor, Phantom, Carnor, etc, even with Palpatine sitting there. Even with Autothrusters, you just make them re-roll them. Its an exceptionally difficult shot to dodge.

 

VI Boba with Autoblaster Cannon is also a thing in our area, so no defence at range 1.

 

Stress bot is also a thing, either on a Y wing, VI Wes or an Arc. Double stressing most imperials leaves them dead in the water.

 

Ten Numb / Wes and Biggs is also a decent list, bringing stress bot, two PS10 ships, a mangler cannon and two sets of Flechettes is just a beautiful combo. Not only does this counter Palpatine Ace lists, it is also making a mockery of Fenn Rau.

 

All of that counters the ship you are trying to hit, which isn't the shuttle, you often don't need to worry about the shuttle itself.

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