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Rinzler in a Tie

Nerf to Rigged Cargo Chute (red maneuvers on red maneuvers)

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Tucked in the corner of page 2 of the new FAQ: 

 

A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions. If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver (and cannot use a game effect to rotate its dial or execute a non-red maneuver instead), the owner moves the ship as if it were a white [straight 2] maneuver instead.
 
How about them apples.

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Great change, honestly.  I've always hated how inherently mean spirited that rule was.  It's probably a fair punishment for creating an unresolveable game, but in practice its always an honest mistake that puts me in a position where I have to choose how harshly to punish them and realistically, probably should choose the option that decides the game.

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Good. Once they added a mechanic for inflicting stress during the activation phase, that mechanic needed a change.

Also gives new utility to Stay On Target when you're stressed! If a 2-straight would be better than the maneuver you dialed in, you can use SoT to change to a red maneuver, which then forces the 2-straight.

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I'm rather happy with that change, but then I did have it screw me over on it's very first outing against me; with a K dialled in, the rigged cargo was dropped on my before I activated. Opponent changed my dial to send me not only totally away from the battle, but also into another debris field. Major Explosion from the second debris, into Direct Hit. Two stress, three damage, and three turns trying to get back into the fight, still carrying stress. It was the epitome of why that change was needed now.

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My fault for not writing in but I wish the errata was a little different.  

 

A straight 2 white may not be the best "punishment" for an illegal maneuver.  It can actually cause problems for the opponent rather than they pick the preferred dial knowing what they are doing during the activation.  Now they might end up in a pileup, not able to K-turn and take stress, etc.  All theoretical but VERY likely to happen.   How would you like your opponent to dial up an illegal move, then you get blocked by it and punished.  Crazy right?  Yes, I know...you have to plan that they would be clearing stress with a straight 2 anyway...right?

 

I assume this is chosen since all ships have this maneuver. 

 

Would have preferred that a Rigged Cargo Chute language that would have declared that a red maneuver was legal.  This might potentially cause 3 stress but at least the original maneuver is completed.  This can be super critical in a game.  However, now they potentially have two stress pointing the wrong direction.  Still pretty devastating.

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i think what it should have been to put more emphasis on not doing it is do a 2bank away from the center of the board, increasing risk of flying off or losing a shot.

 

Right now its better than it was before, but i can now do a 2fwd if i have a crit that says i cant. Still stressed, but i'd take that and have a nice shot over a bad shot and i did a legal move.

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so how would this work with the crit that doesn't allow you to be assigned straight maneuvers? dial a red instead so you're guaranteed to be able to pull off the 2 straight?

Edited by lester

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so how would this work with the crit that doesn't allow you to be assigned straight maneuvers? dial a red instead so you're guaranteed to be able to pull off the 2 straight?

Can't be assigned in the planning phase. The change is in activation. No interaction with shaken pilot

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A straight 2 white may not be the best "punishment" for an illegal maneuver.

 

Depends on how you look at it.  You can also just say that there's no longer such a thing as an illegal maneuver and the stress token now simply has an added clause that says "replaces all red maneuvers with a straight 2 white.

 

 

How would you like your opponent to dial up an illegal move, then you get blocked by it and punished.  Crazy right?  Yes, I know...you have to plan that they would be clearing stress with a straight 2 anyway...right?

 

That's the thing.  Currently, if an opponent has stress I know they can't dial up a Red... and they still can't.  They now have a bunch of new ways to dial up 2 straight white, but that was an option I had to consider before anyway.  The only new thing is that they react differently to a Cargo Chute, but its still essentially the same prediction options.  The only difference is that predicting a red means knowing exactly where they're going to wind up.

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Like people have said already, literally every. single. ship. already has a two forward. More to the point, all the two-forward maneuvers on those dials are green, so you should always consider the possibility a stressed ship is going to execute a two-forward anyway.

 

I guess I can see how it might be annoying if this happened, but with Rigged Cargo shoot putting stress tokens on people during the activation phase, this change had to happen, and a special rule targeting just that specific scenario would be odd- How do you call out that specific scenario without referencing the specific card, since you want to future proof your design in case of future cards? Simply ignoring stress tokens added during the activation phase seems problematic since it'd be easy to forget and a weird exception.

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Its a fantastic rule change, in that it forces the ships to do manouvers they could all legally but removes the stress removal of doing them.And removes the ha you messed up let me 5 straight your ship towards the edge of the board.... The wrong dial placement was unbelievably crippling, not its just bad. The game is about fun, doing a red while stressed is an oversight of the player and should not be as insane a punishment as it was.

 

The only time that this could be abused is if you wanted to stay stressed but also wanted to do a 2 straight... Ezra? I cant think of any other ship that desperately may want to stay stressed off the top of my head. 

 

So in the case where you want ezra to be stressed and want to do a 2 straight this new rule is a buff to ezra.... 

Edited by Icelom

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I don't think there's a single ship in the game that doesn't have a green straight 2, right? So this is a step worse than physically possible otherwise.

 

It's a good patch. I once had a player accidentally k-turn a stressed Z-95, and despite it being entirely in the rules, I still felt like a **** when I flew him away from the fight and into a rock.

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I'm rather happy with that change, but then I did have it screw me over on it's very first outing against me; with a K dialled in, the rigged cargo was dropped on my before I activated. Opponent changed my dial to send me not only totally away from the battle, but also into another debris field. Major Explosion from the second debris, into Direct Hit. Two stress, three damage, and three turns trying to get back into the fight, still carrying stress. It was the epitome of why that change was needed now.

It should count for something that this is an extremely hilarious series of events right...?

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This is a relatively minor nerf for something that probably wasn't going to happen much anyways. Rigged Cargo Chute got a huge buff from the new obstacle rules that actually get them working as intended with Tractor Beam Movement and Rigged Cargo Chutes. 

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Players of Star Trek Attack Wing have had the ability to add Auxilliary Power (equivalent of Stress) tokens to a ship in the activation phase since the game started and situations where they pick red maneuvers while stressed nearly never happens.  Even in the best circumstances trying to make it happen the victim knows they can have a stress token put on them before they reveal a maneuver.  More than anything the reaction is to take green maneuvers until they are out of range of the ship with the stress inducing upgrade or it's been shot down.  It's almost better to pack the upgrade and NOT use it, just threaten to use it to control their moves. 

 

This feels like 'safe space' hand holding, but whatevs.  At least it's a simple change.

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Tucked in the corner of page 2 of the new FAQ: 

 

A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions. If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver (and cannot use a game effect to rotate its dial or execute a non-red maneuver instead), the owner moves the ship as if it were a white [straight 2] maneuver instead.
 
How about them apples.

 

Now, all they need is to add one more line - R2 Astromech and Nien Nunb (and anything else that can change a white to a green maneuver) cannot change the maneuver to a green maneuver and then we'd be perfect.

 

Oh, and the Countess----  Can she make the 2 white straight a K turn?  Can Juno still use her ability.  REASONING - the player is still revealing a maneuver.  As the maneuver is invalid, "the owner moves the ship as if it were a white [straight 2] maneuver instead." So, in essence, they revealed a 2 straight white.

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Tucked in the corner of page 2 of the new FAQ: 

 

A stressed ship cannot execute red maneuvers or perform actions. If a stressed ship reveals a red maneuver (and cannot use a game effect to rotate its dial or execute a non-red maneuver instead), the owner moves the ship as if it were a white [straight 2] maneuver instead.
 
How about them apples.

 

Now, all they need is to add one more line - R2 Astromech and Nien Nunb (and anything else that can change a white to a green maneuver) cannot change the maneuver to a green maneuver and then we'd be perfect.

 

Oh, and the Countess----  Can she make the 2 white straight a K turn?  Can Juno still use her ability.  REASONING - the player is still revealing a maneuver.  As the maneuver is invalid, "the owner moves the ship as if it were a white [straight 2] maneuver instead." So, in essence, they revealed a 2 straight white.

 

Interesting thought. My instinct was to assume it was essentially a slightly faster Ion type effect, but you're right - it might not be quite the same.

 

Wonder how long until this massive FAQ has a FAQ of its own? ;)

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That buffs Kanan crew quite nice. I think that at some point, the authors should implement a non-color movements, i.e. for the sake of Ion effect, Tractor beaming, Decloacking or similar effects that works as movements in general, including any limitations but are not supposed to have colors and are not supposed to trigger any effects related to any colored maneuvers.

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