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NeverBetTheFett

Biggs nerfed?

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You choose weapon then valid target, right?

 

And deadeye-less ordinance (eg, LRS homing missile bombers) can only shoot at the thing that's TL'd?

 

Does this mean that Ordinance can ignore Biggs completely, or does it mean that Biggs shuts it down like he would have previously?

 

I need to re-read that timing chart...

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You know what fickle? You really need to lay off on the "no one uses that card" speech. I no joke have used every upgrade you've mentioned this thread to at least decent affect. Yes even autoblaster. I've taken a liking to it on an IG with fearlessness, it closes the range one hole that Imp aces like to boost into. One-shotting Carnor never felt so good.

 

Honestly between this and torp scouts getting nuked I think we'll see less of biggs in the first place. Until then, I'm going to be taking every dirty trick in the book that works against him like ion torps and ruthlessness.

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You choose weapon then valid target, right?

 

And deadeye-less ordinance (eg, LRS homing missile bombers) can only shoot at the thing that's TL'd?

 

Does this mean that Ordinance can ignore Biggs completely, or does it mean that Biggs shuts it down like he would have previously?

 

I need to re-read that timing chart...

 

TL ordinance ignores Biggs.

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Does it?

 

I've seen this argument:
 

You declare your weapon first. You declare your target second. At this point, Biggs is a legal target. Then you move on and realize that you can't pay the cost (spend the target lock) and according to the Rules Reference:

If there is no valid target for the chosen weapon, or if the attacker cannot pay any costs required for the attack, the attacker may choose a different weapon and target.

So you can't pay the cost and have to choose again. Trying to use torps would just cycle you back here so your only option is to choose a different weapon.

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Does it?

 

I've seen this argument:

 

You declare your weapon first. You declare your target second. At this point, Biggs is a legal target. Then you move on and realize that you can't pay the cost (spend the target lock) and according to the Rules Reference:

If there is no valid target for the chosen weapon, or if the attacker cannot pay any costs required for the attack, the attacker may choose a different weapon and target.

So you can't pay the cost and have to choose again. Trying to use torps would just cycle you back here so your only option is to choose a different weapon.

 

 

But before you even declare your weapon you've already TL'ed someone whose name is not Biggs.  Then the only valid target for the weapon is whoever you TL'ed.

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Does it?

 

I've seen this argument:

 

You declare your weapon first. You declare your target second. At this point, Biggs is a legal target. Then you move on and realize that you can't pay the cost (spend the target lock) and according to the Rules Reference:

If there is no valid target for the chosen weapon, or if the attacker cannot pay any costs required for the attack, the attacker may choose a different weapon and target.

So you can't pay the cost and have to choose again. Trying to use torps would just cycle you back here so your only option is to choose a different weapon.

 

 

This is just another example of rules lawyering (which is why FAQs tend to be 85% longer than they really need to be).  You can't target a ship with a Plasma Torpedo unless you fulfill the "Attack: Target Lock" part.  So if you decide to use Plasmas and declare them for your attack, Biggs isn't a valid target if the TL is on somebody else.

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Was Biggs really nerfed? I understand the argument that you can now bypass him with secondary weapon restrictions but doesn’t that just help Biggs to last longer and annoy you late game when those ordinance have been spent? Any veteran X-wing player will tell you that when you see Biggs, you shouldn’t try and keep him out of arc to shoot at something else, you should instead bring every gun you have to bear on him quickly to drop him as fast as possible. You may think your cool when you get a shot that can bypass Biggs ability but for the most part, you need to drop Biggs so you can bring all your guns to bear on other targets consistently without Biggs floating in and out of shots.

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You know what fickle? You really need to lay off on the "no one uses that card" speech.

 

until you start paying me or I start owing you something, I don't have to do anything :P

 

especially when it involves the effort of incredible minutia of going through every card in the game that you are less likely to spot than you are to get hit by lightning

 

 

incredibly rare, corner case scenarios to not lead themselves to a "nerfed" biggs

Edited by ficklegreendice

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Was Biggs really nerfed? I understand the argument that you can now bypass him with secondary weapon restrictions but doesn’t that just help Biggs to last longer and annoy you late game when those ordinance have been spent? Any veteran X-wing player will tell you that when you see Biggs, you shouldn’t try and keep him out of arc to shoot at something else, you should instead bring every gun you have to bear on him quickly to drop him as fast as possible. You may think your cool when you get a shot that can bypass Biggs ability but for the most part, you need to drop Biggs so you can bring all your guns to bear on other targets consistently without Biggs floating in and out of shots.

 

This.  I laugh when someone thinks they've done good by shooting my regen Norra instead of Biggs.  Congrats, you've accomplished nothing.

Edited by Zefirus

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Was Biggs really nerfed? I understand the argument that you can now bypass him with secondary weapon restrictions but doesn’t that just help Biggs to last longer and annoy you late game when those ordinance have been spent? Any veteran X-wing player will tell you that when you see Biggs, you shouldn’t try and keep him out of arc to shoot at something else, you should instead bring every gun you have to bear on him quickly to drop him as fast as possible. You may think your cool when you get a shot that can bypass Biggs ability but for the most part, you need to drop Biggs so you can bring all your guns to bear on other targets consistently without Biggs floating in and out of shots.

 

This.  I laugh when someone thinks they've done good by shooting my regen Norra instead of Biggs.  Congrats, you've accomplished nothing.

 

hqdefault.jpg

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to be fair, Biggs has, and remains, good. But the single most annoying situation with him is with target-lock-requiring ordnance; where you had to stack all your locks on him, not knowing how many missiles it would take to kill him (it's one reason deadeye was so useful). 

 

Equally, whilst I approve of "must shoot biggs" as a mechanic, "must choose to fire a 2-dice autoblaster turret instead of firing my 5-dice, target locked primary" is a bit much; Biggs can force me to shoot at him, but he can't force me to choose what weapon I shoot. 

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Ordnance and range caps are the big one.

 

No more hiding biggs behind your ARCs. If i fire an ATTACK[TARGETLOCK] i cant declare biggs as a target so i flatout ignore him (unless im an idiot and i weaponsengineer him and 1 other) or if i fire a cannon/turret that cant quite reach him i ignore him.

 

 

except most 2ndaries are range 2-3 and the ones that aren't are basically untouched apart from autoblaster turrets (oh the horror against my 1 agi :rolleyes: )

 

well maybe just prockets and how often do you see those?

 

 

 

err...I mean it's a change, but I really wouldn't call it a nerf

 

"

Biggs Darklighter's ability does not trigger
if the attacker chose a weapon
that cannot
target Biggs Darklighter."
 
 
there really aren't that many cases in which this would trigger, as you're looking at either a ship with a turret 2ndary using its arc-locked primary (which invariably sucks, see Y HWK and K) or a range limited 2ndary instead of its primary (but Biggs should be behind your other ships and no one uses autoblaster cannon or cluster missiles)
 
 
practically speaking, you really should see no change in your Biggs use. He's just as good as he was prior

 

 

If you target-lock something besides Biggs, then choose to attack with ordinance....

 

:ph34r:  :ph34r: :ph34r:  

 

 

people still target-lock with ordnance :blink: ?

 

even after the deadeye faq, I don't see this happening

 

Yes, Cluster NDru HAS to use TL for his 8 damage nuke.

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Was Biggs really nerfed? I understand the argument that you can now bypass him with secondary weapon restrictions but doesn’t that just help Biggs to last longer and annoy you late game when those ordinance have been spent? Any veteran X-wing player will tell you that when you see Biggs, you shouldn’t try and keep him out of arc to shoot at something else, you should instead bring every gun you have to bear on him quickly to drop him as fast as possible. You may think your cool when you get a shot that can bypass Biggs ability but for the most part, you need to drop Biggs so you can bring all your guns to bear on other targets consistently without Biggs floating in and out of shots.

Yes, he was nerfed. He was better, now he is worse = nerf.

You can still target him with missiles, if you want to drop him first. Your enemy may make a mistake, but honestly, what kind of argument is it?

"Deadeye toilet seats weren't a problem, I mean if enemy decides to fire each torpedo at a different target I can defeat them with any list".

He can no longer prevent things like homing missiles, on Miranda for example, sniping Airen or Sabine, or a TIE, in the first roumd of combat. Or an alpha strike list deleting Norra, Corran, Poe or Miranda.

I'm not saying it's bad that they nerfed him, maybe he was unbalanced (if so it took them some time to notice that), maybe it will enable them to release ships that aren't glued to Biggs in list building, but c'mon it's clearly a nerf.

Edited by eMeM

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I' just gonna post that pic of Biggs in leather pants and a cape fighting a Tusken Raider with his own weapon....... now anything else is pointless

10154057655_37100f7113_b.jpg

 

Cool outfit.

 

Biggs should have been worded like this in the first time.

I think its not really a nerf. This way Biggs actually is able to do his job by splittin enemy fire even better if the opposing list features ships with and without ordnance.

Its an all Bombers list buff.

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Biggs still works most of the time but he's no longer an alpha strike counter provided you use ordnance 'properly' instead of using Deadeye.

 

He's also only an alpha strike counter if your alpha strike succeeds: if you fall short of killing your Biggs shielded target then Biggs has done an even better job than usual: Biggs is at his best when he splits fire between himself and his charge, forcing your opponent to not only not focus fire their desired target but to not focus fire at all.

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Was Biggs really nerfed? I understand the argument that you can now bypass him with secondary weapon restrictions but doesn’t that just help Biggs to last longer and annoy you late game when those ordinance have been spent? Any veteran X-wing player will tell you that when you see Biggs, you shouldn’t try and keep him out of arc to shoot at something else, you should instead bring every gun you have to bear on him quickly to drop him as fast as possible. You may think your cool when you get a shot that can bypass Biggs ability but for the most part, you need to drop Biggs so you can bring all your guns to bear on other targets consistently without Biggs floating in and out of shots.

Yes, he was nerfed. He was better, now he is worse = nerf.

You can still target him with missiles, if you want to drop him first. Your enemy may make a mistake, but honestly, what kind of argument is it?

"Deadeye toilet seats weren't a problem, I mean if enemy decides to fire each torpedo at a different target I can defeat them with any list".

He can no longer prevent things like homing missiles, on Miranda for example, sniping Airen or Sabine, or a TIE, in the first roumd of combat. Or an alpha strike list deleting Norra, Corran, Poe or Miranda.

I'm not saying it's bad that they nerfed him, maybe he was unbalanced (if so it took them some time to notice that), maybe it will enable them to release ships that aren't glued to Biggs in list building, but c'mon it's clearly a nerf.

 

How are you getting an alpha strike with enough firepower to drop a Poe, Corran or Nora specifically using a target lock with ships that will have to have a lower PS.  You will maybe get 1 or 2 off but then the ship breaks off and starts regenerating while you now have to deal with Biggs.  The reason ordinance worked in the jumpmaster case was every ordinance fix could be used but, because it only required focus, Biggs would have to be targeted.  It’s a nerf in theory but it does not change the effectiveness of Biggs.  The answer to Biggs has always and will always be shoot him first.  If you would like to waste your shots elsewhere, be my guest.

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Bombers with LRS say hello from across the board.

 

Ive only had 2-3 games where my duo bomber LRS + Crack + Homer alpha strike didnt butcher something to 1-2hp if not flatout kill it. Even took out Dash between the two, since i cracked his only evade and he drew some bad crits :D - which was an unexpected victory, i was planning to have Ryad chase down his last 1-2 hp

Edited by Vineheart01

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Does it?

 

I've seen this argument:

 

You declare your weapon first. You declare your target second. At this point, Biggs is a legal target. Then you move on and realize that you can't pay the cost (spend the target lock) and according to the Rules Reference:

If there is no valid target for the chosen weapon, or if the attacker cannot pay any costs required for the attack, the attacker may choose a different weapon and target.

So you can't pay the cost and have to choose again. Trying to use torps would just cycle you back here so your only option is to choose a different weapon.

 

 

But before you even declare your weapon you've already TL'ed someone whose name is not Biggs.  Then the only valid target for the weapon is whoever you TL'ed.

 

I tend to agree with the interpretation that most see.  Biggs cannot prevent you from firing TL'd ordnance at another ship.  But, I don't think the argument PCgamerpirate is putting forth is without merit or consideration.  The fact that you actually can shoot at Missile/Torpedo at a ship you don't have TL'd with Deadeye could mean that you aren't required to declare the target of your ordnance attack the ship you have TL'd.  If that was the case, you'd technically never actually be able to fire a missile/torp with deadeye unless you had both a TL on the ship and a F.  

I don't think PCGamerPirate's position is correct, but it certainly could be and shouldn't be dismissed without full consideration.  We probably need more clarity from FFG.

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it isnt correct. Per the rules via attacking with secondary weapons that require a targetlock, biggs is NOT a valid target because:

 

JjX4sIF.png

If there is no targetlock, you are not a valid target. Thus, biggs is ignored unless youre a dummy and weaponsengineer him + 1 other.

 

The steps dont change this. They simply clarify what happens when. Since biggs no longer forces you to change weapons, and he is not a valid target at step ii, then in step iii where you spend the TL if your ordnance requires it you have already passed the point where biggs could potentially screw with you.

Edited by Vineheart01

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