A Silly Lightsaber Question

[venkelos 568]

So, this is sort of silly, and maybe a little cheating, too, but I thought I'd inquire. While the idea of a Jedi having two lightsabers is usually frowned upon by the Jedi Order, some do/did, and some people playing the game might want to emulate, since making lightsabers is apparently very easy, once you get over the hurdle of finding crystals. In my mind, this would either mean two basic sabers, or a basic, in the main hand, and a shoto, in the offhand. Then somebody brought up that, the way the system works, you'd actually want the shoto in your main hand, as this way you get the Accurate bonus, which a basic saber lacks. I didn't see any upgrades/mods that could give a basic lightsaber Accurate. I can see this, but it irritates me, and that's when I had an idea:

 

Take a shoto, get whatever crystal you like/can find, and add the extended hilt mod. You get to keep the Accurate, and the Ext. Hilt gives you back the lost damage, plus an easier access to a Vicious mod, meaning you could, if you want, get something else out of your crystal, before the difficulty of modding it goes through the roof. The EH mod doesn't mention needing to be bigger, or use both hands, and I imagine an EH shoto might just about add up to a basic saber hilt, now with the Accurate ability. Get a second shoto, or a regular lightsaber, and that could be your offhand weapon, setting you up for two-weapon fighting, without your main weapon being smaller than your off one.

 

It's sort of silly, like I said, maybe even unnecessary, but is there anything mechanically to stop it? Thanks much, and please have a good one.

[Blackbird888 4,110]

If you don't care about the hard point economy (shotos have less than others), I don't think there is, which is why I don't like the extended hilt as written.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Blackbird888

[NSIBystander 61]

I personally believe that the extended and curved hilts should have been hilt types rather than mods, simply because of people trying to do stuff like this.

 

That said, if all you're looking for is a mod that can give a lightsaber Accurate, go for the Custom Grip mod from Special Modifications (p.54).  It removes setback from your combat checks and can be upgraded to give a rank of Accurate.

[kaosoe 7,573]

Don't forget the paired weapon attachment.

[Kael 1,865]

I wouldn't allow it since the Extended Hilt specifically says that you are using a two handed grip to focus your strength. Is losing 1 point of weapon damage really that bad? I mean really? People jump through amazing hoops just for a loss of 1 point of damage. 

[venkelos 568]

I wouldn't allow it since the Extended Hilt specifically says that you are using a two handed grip to focus your strength. Is losing 1 point of weapon damage really that bad? I mean really? People jump through amazing hoops just for a loss of 1 point of damage. 

No, I wouldn't say it is really so bad, and once you get talented, you'll probably roll extra * to make it up, and add even more; for me, it was a semantics thing. As much as, in my mind Jarkai is NOT just two-weapon fighting form, with lightsabers, I usually imagine it as a lightsaber main, and a shoto off, or two lightsabers, leaving the shotos for Yoda-sized Jedi, but then the shoto's effects sort of never come in, only occurring if you can activate the second attack with Advantages, and then you just hit, anyway, so Accurate is sort of nothing. As I don't have most of the books, I hadn't seen the Custom Grips mod, and I don't think they've kicked out any Jarkai-themed talents, yet. I didn't want to jump through a hoop to get back the one damage, but to maintain the appearance I think should be there, with the basic saber being main. As I said, since the manufacture of lightsaber hilts is apparently stupidly easy, now, I'd probably just forgo the whole thing, and make two basic sabers, crystals permitting, or assess my skill, and stick to one; the Jedi frown on dual-wielding showboats.

[Kael 1,865]

You do realize that you don't have a main hand right? Nor do you have to say you land with the shoto first. Combat is narrative. Each roll represents roughly a minute of action in which you make several strikes. Damage is a metric of wounds taken over time as opposed to landing a blow that does 8 points. It's more I land a series of strikes and the end result is 8 points of damage. Just because you lead with the shoto doesn't mean the shoto was the first to strike or land. Describe it however, it makes you feel happy. If not rolling damage for the larger lightsabre trips up how you view the fighting style working then you're not really utilizing this system to its best. 

 

If this is all about maintaining appearance then describe it that way. You don't need to add a mod, which technically doesn't allow you to two weapon fight anyway, you just need to describe it that way. This system is amazingly simple when it comes to getting your fighting style to match what you want it to do without having to mechanically do much of anything. 

[Squirrelsan 434]

You do realize that you don't have a main hand right? Nor do you have to say you land with the shoto first. Combat is narrative. Each roll represents roughly a minute of action in which you make several strikes. Damage is a metric of wounds taken over time as opposed to landing a blow that does 8 points. It's more I land a series of strikes and the end result is 8 points of damage. Just because you lead with the shoto doesn't mean the shoto was the first to strike or land. Describe it however, it makes you feel happy. If not rolling damage for the larger lightsabre trips up how you view the fighting style working then you're not really utilizing this system to its best. 

 

If this is all about maintaining appearance then describe it that way. You don't need to add a mod, which technically doesn't allow you to two weapon fight anyway, you just need to describe it that way. This system is amazingly simple when it comes to getting your fighting style to match what you want it to do without having to mechanically do much of anything. 

 

Interesting.  So are you saying that if I take an off-hand Shoto, I get to use the Accurate Boost die on my attack roll but the first hit can use my full size lightsaber for damage and reserve the less damage off-hand weapon for if I score a second hit?  That would seem to make sense to me narratively.  You could even using when not trying to attack with both weapons (i.e. against a tough opponent who is upgrading the check a lot making them hard to hit) to maximise your chances.

[Blackbird888 4,110]

Interesting.  So are you saying that if I take an off-hand Shoto, I get to use the Accurate Boost die on my attack roll but the first hit can use my full size lightsaber for damage and reserve the less damage off-hand weapon for if I score a second hit?  That would seem to make sense to me narratively.  You could even using when not trying to attack with both weapons (i.e. against a tough opponent who is upgrading the check a lot making them hard to hit) to maximise your chances.

No, that is not accurate. Two-weapon fighting is pretty specific, and the developers have clarified at least once. When using two weapons, you pick a primary weapon, which sets the pool (well, as long as both weapons use the same skill, in this case Lightsaber). Any weapon qualities in the secondary weapon that modify the dice pool, such as Accurate, Inaccurate, Superior, Inferior, are not applied. Then, if you succeed on the check, you hit with the primary weapon, and if you have the required Advantage, you can hit with the secondary weapon. Active qualities and critical hits can then be activated on both.

 

I personally don't share this view:

Each roll represents roughly a minute of action in which you make several strikes. Damage is a metric of wounds taken over time as opposed to landing a blow that does 8 points. It's more I land a series of strikes and the end result is 8 points of damage.

Mostly because of the Saber Swarm talent, but also the way Auto-Fire and Linked actually work. They imply, overall, that hitting a two or more times in a single attack is a special occurrence. So while a combat check is definitely something of a back-and-forth engagement, damage is normally linked to one decisive hit per combat check.

[Kael 1,865]

 

 

Interesting.  So are you saying that if I take an off-hand Shoto, I get to use the Accurate Boost die on my attack roll but the first hit can use my full size lightsaber for damage and reserve the less damage off-hand weapon for if I score a second hit?  That would seem to make sense to me narratively.  You could even using when not trying to attack with both weapons (i.e. against a tough opponent who is upgrading the check a lot making them hard to hit) to maximise your chances.

 

No, I'm saying combat is narrative. You lead with the shoto and you strike first with the shoto but that doesn't matter when it comes to describing how you actually land those blows. When it comes down to how those hits look in combat it basically happens in whatever order you need. If you don't picture a character leads with his shoto (despite the fact that in real life you often would and Ashoka is displayed doing this all the time) then when it comes time to describe your hits just describe it with the main saber going first in a series of strikes, with the shoto being the one that eventually landed damage first. 

 

It's a minute of fighting, it honestly does not matter which lightsabre moves first if your moving around and swinging for awhile. 

[FuriousGreg 1,667]

As others are saying there is no "off-hand" in the traditional D&D sense there is only your primary weapon used to determine your dice pool. Edit - removed content cuz I was corrected below.

Edited October 17, 2016 by FuriousGreg

[Squirrelsan 434]

No, I'm saying combat is narrative. You lead with the shoto and you strike first with the shoto but that doesn't matter when it comes to describing how you actually land those blows. When it comes down to how those hits look in combat it basically happens in whatever order you need. If you don't picture a character leads with his shoto (despite the fact that in real life you often would and Ashoka is displayed doing this all the time) then when it comes time to describe your hits just describe it with the main saber going first in a series of strikes, with the shoto being the one that eventually landed damage first. 

 

 

 

It's a minute of fighting, it honestly does not matter which lightsabre moves first if your moving around and swinging for awhile. 

 

Ah, ok, I mistook your description of narrative for a description of rules.

 

It does feel slightly odd that the shoto is designed to be used as an off-hand weapon and has Accurate that cannot be used in that format, however I suppose it is designed to balance out the lower damage for smaller characters who wish to use it as a primary weapon.  Is there any reason (mechanically) to take a Shoto as an off-hand weapons instead of a regular lightsaber?

 

This is all academic to me BTW, I use a single lightsaber and have no interesting taking up a second.  

[Blackbird888 4,110]

As others are saying there is no "off-hand" in the traditional D&D sense there is only your primary weapon used to determine your dice pool. The secondary weapon's effects are only added on a successful hit by spending two Advantages, however the Accurate quality states: F&D pg 161  "... the attacker adds (one Boost die) to his attack dice pools while using this weapon." (emphasis mine). This means that that Boost die is added to both dice pools you create when determining which is the lesser.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/?p=1278433

[FuriousGreg 1,667]

 

As others are saying there is no "off-hand" in the traditional D&D sense there is only your primary weapon used to determine your dice pool. The secondary weapon's effects are only added on a successful hit by spending two Advantages, however the Accurate quality states: F&D pg 161  "... the attacker adds (one Boost die) to his attack dice pools while using this weapon." (emphasis mine). This means that that Boost die is added to both dice pools you create when determining which is the lesser.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/108101-ffg-developer-answered-questions/?p=1278433

 

I stand corrected

[Kael 1,865]

 

 

It does feel slightly odd that the shoto is designed to be used as an off-hand weapon and has Accurate that cannot be used in that format, however I suppose it is designed to balance out the lower damage for smaller characters who wish to use it as a primary weapon.  Is there any reason (mechanically) to take a Shoto as an off-hand weapons instead of a regular lightsaber?

 

It's only odd if you insist on sticking with a narrow idea of combat. When you adopt narrative combat it becomes less odd because the leading weapon becomes moot for how combat is going to actually look in play. 

 

As for any mechanical reason to take it as an off hand weapon, since technically there is no off hand weapon in this system the question is moot. Each round you determine which is the lead weapon. The shoto can be the lead one round and then the second weapon the next round. You basically pick up a shoto if the traits are appealing to you. Some people like Accurate. Others may not. When you start adding in moding and crystals you may want Accurate in some situations and other traits in others. But since there is no such thing as off hand it comes down to if the traits fit what you're trying to acheive. 

[venkelos 568]

Thank you very much, and sorry for the confusion; this system is still rather alien to me, compared to the d20 stuff I'm more accustomed to.