Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
LordEnforcer

Palpatine stats

Recommended Posts

Oh, that's easy:

 

Colonist -> Politico

Agility: 5

Cunning: 5

Presence: 5

Brawn: 5

Willpower: 5

Intellect: 5

 

Force Rating: 40

Soak: 40

Wound Threshold: 40

Strain Threshold: 39 (he's an old man and tires easily)

Adversary: 40

 

Force powers? Sprinkle to taste.

 

Seriously, you might as well try and stat out Godzilla. He's a force of nature, he's beyond mere stats. If the characters run into him, they're ether dead or alive via Plot Device.

Edited by Desslok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah so big characters like that you need to set up as either

 

a) Something your players kill and actively fight against at which point you just stat it out as a very tough enemy for your group but nothing special ultimately

 

or

 

b) Its a threat to your party they are trying to avoid or work around. Think of it like a Star Destroyer in a Fighter based combat, your freighter or x-wing or something isnt going to turn around and try to make meaningful attacks on it. Hell you probably dont even bother getting the stats for the Star Destroyer out. Its something that is busy doing something else or advancing towards the party. The players should be trying to either achieve something before it does or trying to escape from it where failure is capture and certain doom.

 

 

Don't give it stats because of some sense of realism and consistency in the universe or anything. Give it stats only because its something you want you're players to fight and eventually overcome at which point its entirely dependent on how capable your party is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My first reaction to the thread was:

 

"What the HELL did your players do???" :D

 

Sidious (and plageuis, even though the book is non-canon now) aspired to - and read that sentence carefully - supersede the force as the main animating principle of the universe. Don't mess with palpi man. The fear check alone would be comically impossible. The group killing Darth Vader is much more realistic, and that is already highly unlikely.

 

His WT wouldn't be that high necessarily, but the force rating would probably be around 10-15, his equipment would be beyond anything the rulebook can come up.

 

We're not trying to mock you, I'd also be curious, but it is an exercise in futility. The old man is way to powerfull.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I pretty much used Desslok's stats when we did a flashback of a historical event in our campaign (I think he had some 6's and Adversary 4).  The PCs created stats to recreate the Jedi who historically battled him, though one did use his PC as she was in a support role for that fight.  The whole thing was to test the crazier limits of the F&D Beta, and to add a historical event to our game that would become canon. 

 

The outcome was not in doubt (we'd established he was killed before Order 66) but he went down fairly easily though he did take one of them with him.  Having defeated him, they got to choose how he died canonically in the game, which is much too gruesome to repeat here but it involved rusty kitchen utensils and the PC still has traumatic flashbacks...

 

It pretty much taught me that 'one villain vs multiple PCs' will always result in a heavy PC victory, and that 'boss' enemies in this game need to have support and an escape route (something Palpatine didn't have in our example).

 

Canonically, I don't think he's a 'force of nature' like the Lady of Pain in Planescape - he's just a guy and is one-shotted in the films (the EU and subsequent media make the movie characters out to be Asgardian Supermen but in the context of the films, they are no such thing).  The difficulty for the PCs should be getting to him.  A smart villain won't let Bond or Batman within fighting distance.   .

 

As to the OP's question - in this game, NPCs have the stats they need to do what you want them to do.  Why do you need stats? If you intend the PCs to kill him,  make him tough but killable.  If you don't want them to kill him, just say they can't.

 

You don't need NPC stats for a cameo or cutscene. If they meet Mon Mothma to get a mission briefing or a medal, you won't need her stats unless they intend to arm-wrestle her or something.

Edited by Maelora

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adversary: 40???

 

Yes, 40. Mind you, that might be a bit problematic to implement - you might have to pick up 12 more sets of dice to properly run the character. . . .

 

 

Only 5 in his characteristics?  

 
Well, I thought sixes would be way too overpowered.
Edited by Desslok

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, that's easy:

 

Colonist -> Politico

Agility: 5

Cunning: 5

Presence: 5

Brawn: 5

Willpower: 5

Intellect: 5

 

Force Rating: 40

Soak: 40

Wound Threshold: 40

Strain Threshold: 39 (he's an old man and tires easily)

Adversary: 40

 

Force powers? Sprinkle to taste.

 

Seriously, you might as well try and stat out Godzilla. He's a force of nature, he's beyond mere stats. If the characters run into him, they're ether dead or alive via Plot Device.

 

Yes I knew his stats were very high.. I am just wondering..

 

What about the Career / Specialization and the force powers?

Edited by LordEnforcer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Only 5 in his characteristics?  

 
Well, I thought sixes would be way too overpowered.

 

 

Psh, you didn't even give him skills?  How is he going to rule an empire with green dice?

 

He's going to spend the half dozen despairs from Adversary 40 with every attack to have PCs just fall over dead.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only 5 in his characteristics?

 

Well, I thought sixes would be way too overpowered.

 

Psh, you didn't even give him skills?  How is he going to rule an empire with green dice?

He's going to spend the half dozen despairs from Adversary 40 with every attack to have PCs just fall over dead.....

Not really. Now that he has stats you just blow up the death star he is sitting on up. Easy peasy dead emperor. GM Lucas made the same mistake in his Skywalker Saga Campaign, Palpatine just died to Wedge and Lando blowing up his ride. ^-^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been thinking and would love to see what the community thinks..

Everyone please give me your thoughts on what palpatines character would look like just before becoming the chancellor..

 

Sorry, this post came out as long rant, but it has actual answer at the end.

 

Point 1: If it has stats, it can (will?) be killed. 

 

So do you ultimately want PCs to kill Palpatine? If no: don't stat him out, he's like a force of nature which can be won doing right things. If yes: give him stats, but then the question comes how hard you want the killing to be. This game differs from traditional games on the fact that fight is not supposed to fair, it's supposed to be cinematic / entertaining. Stats could vary from Politician (AoR 430) or Fallen master (F&D 412), to stats given by Desslok.

 

Also, think about Cthulhu. In classical Call of Cthulhu Cthulhu has stats and hitpoints (160), just as any creature. Killing it it really hard, but doable. In Trail of Cthulhu (the gumshoe version), Cthulhu doesn't have stats, if it attacks PCs, they die, and there is no way to actually kill Cthulhu (it can be put back to sleep in certain spells). In classical version, you throw a nuke to Cthulhu and it dies, in gumshoe version it just is annoyed. Which one fits better on the cosmic horror (all is doomed already) theme of the game?

 

Did Darth Vader manage to kill Palpatine because he had high enough brawn to throw Palps to endless pit? Or did he manage do it because of plot reasons?

 

So in my mind the real question is, what do you want the Palpatine to be and represent? Do you want him to be a killable monster at the end of a dungeon, or the force of nature affecting the whole campaign?

 

If it didn't come clear already, I prefer the latter and Palpatine won't have stats in my game. If PCs confront him directly, they will die. 

 

But back to your real question. In game where PCs cannot confront him with those stats (i.e. OT time line, what was Palpatine 20+ years ago), I'd probably go with hydrid, taking best of Fallen master (F&D 412) and Politico/Senator (AoR 430) then pumping up some social skills (min deception 4), as needed. If I'd need stats later, I'd pump everything up. When fighting Yoda he would be at least at 2000 xp level (just a note, FaD inquisitors are around 800 XP level), and at OT time, maybe 3000+ xp if I'd need stats. But I'd rather go with force of nature style. How hard it actually was to kill Palpatine? It was actually fairly easy to Luke. He just talked Vader to turn to Anakin. ;) Also, the actual murder wasn't that difficult to Anakin. I wouldn't even make Anakin throw a dice if he'd want to sacrifice himself to kill the emperor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it didn't come clear already, I prefer the latter and Palpatine won't have stats in my game. If PCs confront him directly, they will die.

While Palpatine has been stated to be the most powerful being in the universe, he actually is just the most powerful sith ever (totally ignoring here the eu great sith war). Even Yoda is able to challenge him in a fight, Windu was able to gain the upperhand with his Vaapad.

The comparison to cthulhu is problematic because there are actual cthulu-esque creatures in the star wars galaxy who would sweep away Sheev without any trouble if someone would awake, anger or free them. Palpatine achieved about as much power as a human can, but he still is only human.

Blow up the planet he is on, nuke his position, even just blowing up his Shuttle on transit would be all enough to kill him with ease. He is no force of nature, just basically a very experienced, very talented dude with more or less unlimited xp. He actually still might go down to five force rating 7 guys who assault him in a dark alley. Or not, but it would be certainly a good fight. Now, Palpatine's precognition usually does counter all those options long-before, so usually old Sheev should stack the odds in his favor and turn the tables, just like he tried at endor with his own trap. So there still should be no needs for stats for him. ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

While Palpatine has been stated to be the most powerful being in the universe, he actually is just the most powerful sith ever (totally ignoring here the eu great sith war). Even Yoda is able to challenge him in a fight, Windu was able to gain the upperhand with his Vaapad.

The comparison to cthulhu is problematic because there are actual cthulu-esque creatures in the star wars galaxy who would sweep away Sheev without any trouble if someone would awake, anger or free them. Palpatine achieved about as much power as a human can, but he still is only human.

Blow up the planet he is on, nuke his position, even just blowing up his Shuttle on transit would be all enough to kill him with ease. He is no force of nature, just basically a very experienced, very talented dude with more or less unlimited xp. He actually still might go down to five force rating 7 guys who assault him in a dark alley. Or not, but it would be certainly a good fight. Now, Palpatine's precognition usually does counter all those options long-before, so usually old Sheev should stack the odds in his favor and turn the tables, just like he tried at endor with his own trap. So there still should be no needs for stats for him. ;-)

 

 

This is true. Two thoughs: Direct confrontation and indirect confrontation are totally different things. You cannot win Cthulhu in direct confrontation, but you can win him in indirect confrontation. (IMO, this applies to Palpatine also, in certain cases/level. Note, I'm not saying this is the right way of seeing this, I'm saying this is a way of seeing this.) Also we always need to remember the relativity and what we are comparing (In campaign where PCs are Jedi council members, Palpatine should probably be their nemesis with stats, in normal starting level characters the stats are IMO secondary, more important would be the strategy and connections of Palpatine.). When compared to starting characters Palpatine is IMO Cthulhuesque character who cannot be won directly. Take 2000xp characters (jedi council level) then that's totally different game. My problem with giving stats to emperor level NPCs is that they then can be killed (even accidentally), with really good luck and dice results. Victory should always be result from PC implementing a good plan, and GM should know beforehand what's coming. Maybe this is just because of my background in horror RPGs. 

 

But, my comparison was poor. Eventually Cthulhu always wins but Palpatine doesn't. My point of view was too much in direct confrontation. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, game-wise Palpatine should be a force of nature, and doesn’t have any stats. Same with Vader.

If you do work for them, you should count yourself as very lucky if you survive past the first encounter with your “employer”. And the odds of your continuing to survive just get exponentially worse, each time you see them.

If they’re after you, then you get to generate a new character if you actually meet them in person.

Now, a clone or an Inqusitor, they would probably be the deadliest NPCs you might ever encounter and live, but they could actually have stats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO, game-wise Palpatine should be a force of nature, and doesn’t have any stats. Same with Vader.If you do work for them, you should count yourself as very lucky if you survive past the first encounter with your “employer”. And the odds of your continuing to survive just get exponentially worse, each time you see them.If they’re after you, then you get to generate a new character if you actually meet them in person.Now, a clone or an Inqusitor, they would probably be the deadliest NPCs you might ever encounter and live, but they could actually have stats.

Yes but it's nice to have a base just like when I made a StarKiller clone I made him then lowered and dropped things till the clone was where I think k he should be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now, a clone or an Inqusitor, they would probably be the deadliest NPCs you might ever encounter and live, but they could actually have stats.

 

Unfortunately we have rules for Inquisitors which display them as … ill equip for their job. They are the kind of deadliest NPC you can put against a fresh knight-level  FaD group and expect the players to survive without much trouble. Our GM went so far to put two Inquisitors once at us, basically doubled up their stats (so basically 4 basic ones at once as they got double init slots as well) and tried to lure us in a trap which at least forced us not to use vehicle weapons, yet even that solved ineffective as we run a pro - disintegrations policy. There was a lot of suspension simply based on the fact the opponents had lightsabers and that my character rolled a despair on his stealth check which lead to him going down in turn one … outside of that, the whole nemesis system is not holding up for direct confrontations which a combat heavy, yet very diverse group.

 

I got the strong suspicion that you need to hand out PC talents left and right to bring NPCs up to player levels, adversary is a real nice defensive talent, but there is more to combat then rolling dice and turning up adversary beyond 5 feels silly anyway. 

Edited by SEApocalypse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...