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Drakthal

Rule questions "after reading lightly"

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Wondered if anyone found answer to a couple of questions that i at least could not find.

1. It says that massive creatures are engaged with each investigator in it's space, and that it deals damage and horror to each investigator, but i was a bit unsure whether that is full damage and horror to each or whether you split those numbers. I would guess the first one but i wanted to hear from someone else.

 

2. When you evade a massive monster what exactly happens? Does it get exhausted? That would in my opinion be pretty stupid narrativly since one person evading should not make it "forget where the rest are" and that would make it easy to beat it (unless the evade value is too high to beat). Or is it simply impossible to evade, so the only way to get away is to move which would make the creature make an opportunity attack and then stay with the other guys.

 

3. Aloof creatures in one paragraf sounded like they need to be encountered with an investigator attacking them for you to be able to attack them. (You cannot attack an Aloof creature unless you are engaged with it) While in another paragraph it sounded like they just need to be engaged with an investigator.

 

4. It says specifically about Aloof creatures that you cannot attack them without being engaged with them. Does this mean that you can attack other monsters even after evading them? 

 

5. What parts do i keep from a second core set? As far as i see it i keep all player cards except characters, unique assets and weaknesses, and Basic Weaknesses. But i wanted to hear someone elses opinion.

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1. = When an enemy with the massive keyword attacks during the enemy phase, resolve its (full) attack against each investigator it is engaged with, one investigator at a time.

 

2. = Any time an enemy is evaded (whether by an evade action, or by card ability), the enemy is exhausted (if it was ready) and the engagement is broken. Move the enemy from the investigator’s threat area to the investigator’s location to mark that it is no longer engaged with that investigator.

 

3. = An investigator cannot attack an aloof enemy unless he or she is engaged with it.

= An investigator cannot attack an aloof enemy while that enemy is not engaged with an investigator.

 

Agreed, there is a discrepancy: can an investigator attack an aloof enemy that is engaged with another investigator? Unclear. Added to the list of questions to be asked via official channels.

 

4. = An investigator may fight any enemy at his or her location, including: an enemy he or she is engaged with, an unengaged enemy at the same location, or an enemy engaged with another investigator who is at the same location.

 

5. What do you mean by "keep"? I do not understand the question.

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Ok so 

1 = Thanks :)

2 = There are several statements in that, that im not sure would hit the Massive Creature. First of all it is not in any investigators threat area, it is already in the investigators location as i understand it. Furthermore this is just a kinda thematic thing but if Wendy Addams hides from the Shoggoth, wouldnt that Shoggoth still attack Joe Diamond? Furthermore, if it works like this on a Massive creature, i cant wait to see the design decisions made so that it isnt actually easier to fight a massive creature. 1 evade check and everyone on the location can just fill it with holes. Especially if my extra question on 4. is correct.

3 = Nothing extra to say than that we agree :)

4 = Thanks for that clarification. :) So if i hit an unengaged enemy would i get engaged with that? Again thinking thematic, if a ghoul is attacking my friend wendy and i jump in and hit it with a baseball bat it might not switch over and look at me since it is already occupied. But if i hide from a ghoul and then attack it with a baseball bat afterwards i would think the ghoul knows where i am :)

5 = With that one i meant that i for one will throw out the cards that i wont be using from the second core set. For example i dont see why i would ever need 2 study's. Therefore it would be nice with some guide as to what things you need to have a full playable 4 player set, and which cards you dont add up even though you are 4 players.

Edited by Drakthal

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2. A Massive enemy still can (and will) be exhausted and desengaged. It does look like evading a Massive enemy before attacking it is a good idea.

 

4. Attacking an enemy will not make you engaged with that enemy. The enemy will remain unengaged / engaged with another player.

 

I'll let you and others come up with thematic explanations for all that, I'm just here for the rules and mechanics :)

 

5. Having two complete playsets of all encounter cards will allow you to split up your gaming group into two small groups, and each can play independently from the other. Might be a good idea if it so happens that you four cannot gather altogether for some period of time. Throwing out cards seems radical. But if you're bent on doing it, keep cards #16-95 from the second core, and throw away the rest.

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2 & 4 = Ye thanks for the rules clarifycation :) Still not sure i like the "correct rules" for these 2 but will have to wait and see whether they make sense from a gameplay perspective. Especially number 2 im afraid it will be quite easy to cheese your way past a massive monster.

5 = If that happened as you mentioned, we will just play with whatever number of players we have that day and perhaps start over we will record our decks for each time anyways since we will have to do that no matter what we keep. We never 'split the party' when we play. The only case i would see that as possible would be if we were like 6 people and were hell bent on playing arkham and in that case we would need 3 core sets anyways :D But everyone to themselves ofcourse. My OCD just cannot handle that i have to organize cards that i dont use :D

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6.

 

= Learn to Play: During this phase, each investigator takes a separate turn. The investigators, as a group, choose which investigator takes the first turn. When an investigator’s turn ends, choose an investigator to take the next turn, and so on, until each investigator has taken his or her turn.

 

= Rules Reference: The investigators may take their turns in any order. The investigators choose among themselves who (among the investigators) will take this turn, and making this choice begins that investigator’s turn.

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Ahh thanks :) That one i could have figured out myself it seems :) Sorry for being a bit lazy on that last one. Just remembered something about lead investigator doing something first and then rest in order. But guess that was for pulling encounter cards and being hit by effects.

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So if it is not engaged it cannot be evaded?

 

Edit. Scratch that, thought you just said "Massive Creatures were not considered engaged."

Edited by Drakthal

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So in a 4-player game, if the first action taken successfully evaded a Massive creature, then the players have 11 actions left to just combat it, without danger of any opportunity attacks?

I guess that might seem easier, but consider that:

- not everyone is good at combat, so those actions would either be wasted, or require using a lot of committed cards from hand, or Ammo resources, etc., so everyone attacking "freely" still expends a lot of the player's time and effort and resources;

- presumably, Massive creatures have high evade values so it's not as easy at it seems, and also high combat values so you might not always hit;

- we have no examples of game text so they could have abilities that deal damage regardless of engagement and readiness, or Cannot be Evaded, forcing you to use every action on combat;

- this is just the nature of gameplay vs. realism. In LOTR, we often have a boss enemy come out only to be smashed by some janky deck prepped specifically for it.

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Well correct that it might be hard to attack. BUT if 1 investigator evades it, every other investigator can also freely do everything else. Like investigate, play cards and so on :)

For example 2 investigators with 1 stray cat each would give 2 rounds to avoid Cthulu or whoever else they might encounter :)

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So in a 4-player game, if the first action taken successfully evaded a Massive creature, then the players have 11 actions left to just combat it, without danger of any opportunity attacks?

 

Attacking an enemy does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity. So you can spend 12 clicks on beating the crap out of that Massive enemy. Evading it would be helpful is it actually survives your onslaught.

Edited by mplain

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So in a 4-player game, if the first action taken successfully evaded a Massive creature, then the players have 11 actions left to just combat it, without danger of any opportunity attacks?

 

Attacking an enemy does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity. So you can spend 12 clicks on beating the crap out of that Massive enemy. Evading it would be helpful is it actually survives your onslaught.

 

 

That was my point. If the first action taken by the players each round is to successfully evade it, then the other Investigators can attack, investigate, move, play cards, etc., and be in no danger from attacks. Also, since it is exhausted, it won't make attacks in the enemy phase, either? That does seem a little too easy for Massive monsters.

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Evade seems OP in this game! I wish it was the same in mansion of madness :D


Off topic question:  is it me or other than the shotgun, every weapon only do 1 damage in this game? ( baseball bat = 1, .38 revolver = 1,  .45 automatic = 1, knife = 1 )

Edited by nightwishpower

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That was my point. If the first action taken by the players each round is to successfully evade it, then the other Investigators can attack, investigate, move, play cards, etc., and be in no danger from attacks. Also, since it is exhausted, it won't make attacks in the enemy phase, either? That does seem a little too easy for Massive monsters.

 

This could be offset by giving Massive enemies a high Evade rating (and making them Elite to avoid abusing Stray Cat).

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Weapons do +1 damage, for a total of 2. Some effects are cumulative with weapons (e.g. Vicious Blow), so you can go higher than 2. Backstab gives +2 damage.

 attacking unarmed do a base damage of 1?  I didnt know that :/

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Fight Action

 

“Fight” is an action an investigator may take during his or her turn in the investigation phase.

 

To fight an enemy at his or her location, an investigator resolves an attack against that enemy by making a combat test against the enemy’s fight value (see “Skill Tests” on page 18).

 

If the test is successful, the attack succeeds and damage is dealt to the attacked enemy. The default damage dealt by an attack is 1. Some weapons, spells, or other special attacks may modify this damage. 


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So in a 4-player game, if the first action taken successfully evaded a Massive creature, then the players have 11 actions left to just combat it, without danger of any opportunity attacks?

 

Attacking an enemy does not provoke Attacks of Opportunity. So you can spend 12 clicks on beating the crap out of that Massive enemy. Evading it would be helpful is it actually survives your onslaught.

Also -- if it has the Retaliate keyword, it does, correct?

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While similar in their effect, a retaliate attack is not an attack of opportunity. Retaliate attacks are made against all attacking investigators, while attacks of opportunity are only performed against investigators with which this enemy is engaged. Effects that trigger off attacks of opportunity will not trigger off retaliate attacks, and vice versa.

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And retaliate will only hit if the attack is a miss. So in that sense they might balance it by at least giving the Massive monster retaliate. And had forgotten that stray cat only works for non-elites. (Massive monsters will probably be Elite and then a high evade value.)

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So Massive, Elite, Retaliate, with Fight/Evade stats of like 5/5. So you need to be good to evade or waste cards/resources or risk getting hit in the enemy phase, you need to be good to fight or waste cards/resources or risk getting hit back for presumably 2/2 health/horror or worse, and can't throw family pets at it to distract it. Retaliate still works when the enemy is exhausted, it seems.

So it doesn't seem like an easier enemy to defeat, if it comes with all the other bells and whistles.

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