Jump to content
xanderf

Anyone notice the massive re-scaling of the GR75 in 'Rebels' this week?

Recommended Posts

 

 

When we see somebody climbing into an X-Wing, we know exactly how big it is.

Didn't Saxton argue somewhere that "life-size" SW movie props (such as the Y-wing) are actually not life size, but only 90% of full scale?

Yeah, but it's what we see on screen as the right size as a functioning prop.

 

That's the size. Even if it's not, it is to the viewer. That's always the most important part.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It was intended to be the bridge but even in the movies ILM never made the model large enough to be a full bridge when compared to the models of the X-wings they used to fly beside it. The bridge is just a bit bigger than an xwing which can only hold one pilot.

 

 

Except an x-wing isn't 1 giant cockpit  The cockpit is just a small part of the ship.  X-wings are 12.5 meters long.  Thats 41 feet for those of us who don't use metric.  That's plenty large enough for the bridge we saw in the episode.

 

Not to mention, in that picture we have no reference for how close the x-wings are to the GR-75, and whether they're closer to the camera or further away from it. Which affects the scale of how big they are compared to the command pod.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The size for Y-Wings went from 16m (WEG) to 23.4m (Clone Wars) - and it wouldn't surprise me if Rebels (which used the TCW Y-wing model as the starting point for its Y-Wings) gives us another size, since its Y-Wings have noticeably shorter nacelles than TCW ones - but they doesn't look to be vastly shorter, the way a 16m Y-wing would necessitate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

It was intended to be the bridge but even in the movies ILM never made the model large enough to be a full bridge when compared to the models of the X-wings they used to fly beside it. The bridge is just a bit bigger than an xwing which can only hold one pilot.

 

 

Except an x-wing isn't 1 giant cockpit  The cockpit is just a small part of the ship.  X-wings are 12.5 meters long.  Thats 41 feet for those of us who don't use metric.  That's plenty large enough for the bridge we saw in the episode.

 

Not to mention, in that picture we have no reference for how close the x-wings are to the GR-75, and whether they're closer to the camera or further away from it. Which affects the scale of how big they are compared to the command pod.

 

 

Actually you have an X in the fore and background, so those two points of reference do give you a perfectly good idea of relative size. Also bridges require width in addition to length. It's big enough for one wookiee or two rodians or one human with equipment installed. Either way, not big enough for good story telling, hence the liberties.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're quite a bit shorter, honestly. 

True - but maybe not to the 16m extent. Just as the 6.3m TIE fighter was recently (around the start of the X-Wing Miniatures game) resized to 8.99m, maybe the 16m Y-wing is a slight underestimate as well and it's more like 19m.

 

 

 The Y-Wing we know and love is basically a Rebel retrofit.

 

 

Actually it looks like most of the changes were already in place by the time the Rebels stole them. The main difference between "Imperial Y-wings about to be scrapped" and "ANH Y-wings" seems to be that the guns are shorter and some of the panelling has been stripped away - probably for maintenance, as the Databank describes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Unfortunately, with the destruction of the Jedi archives (and the decanonization of the EU) we lack a unified body of technical information to draw from. Years were spent answering these very questions: What does a Tauntaun eat in its natural habitat? What are the specific effects of Force use on the psyche? What are the exact dimensions of Cloud City or the GR-75?

 

The Story Group still have the "Holocron" (an archive of all this info) and they draw on it for future books.

 

And of course, books are being rereleased in updated, "newcanon" format (with a few things modified). Notably, Complete Locations has now been released as a newcanon reference book, with some locations from The Force Awakens added, planet sizes (mostly copied from the EU's Essential Atlas) etc.

 

It's sad when people assume all of the stories being told in SW just ignore all the legends stuff. 

 

The writers on Rebels in particular have a deep reverence for that material (whether you can accept that or not) and pull it into the show when they can make it serve the story they're telling. 

 

Do you think they would have brought in Thrawn (and done serious consulting with Zahn himself) if they didn't give two wampa poops about Legends stuff? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you are going about this backwards. Rather than looking at the command pod, instead, lets first agree on what size cargo containers the ship clusters inside it, then work outwards. 

 

In my head, I've always considered them like these pods http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Class-A_cargo_containerseen in most of the classic flight sim games. Here are them in non-scientific comparison with our standard fighters

http://boardgamegeek.com/image/1514487/star-wars-x-wing-miniatures-game

 

So, seeing that they are about 3-4 across under the transport... well. It's really out of scale. And that's my official math.

Edited by Kasuvari

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They're quite a bit shorter, honestly.

True - but maybe not to the 16m extent. Just as the 6.3m TIE fighter was recently (around the start of the X-Wing Miniatures game) resized to 8.99m, maybe the 16m Y-wing is a slight underestimate as well and it's more like 19m.

 

 

The Y-Wing we know and love is basically a Rebel retrofit.

 

Actually it looks like most of the changes were already in place by the time the Rebels stole them. The main difference between "Imperial Y-wings about to be scrapped" and "ANH Y-wings" seems to be that the guns are shorter and some of the panelling has been stripped away - probably for maintenance, as the Databank describes.

BTL-A4s and -S3s were different models than the BTL-Bs from the clone wars. They may have been the civilian models or variants that were less bomber and more fighter. Perhaps the later models were ordered by the Empire but quickly scrapped for TIE series ships (and Gunboats!). At any rate they still had more hull paneling than what we see in ANH, although the models the Rebels used never seemed to have had the bubble canopies. The rebel refit of the Y-wings was basically removing most of the armour plating to make them faster and easier to maintain and possibly juicing the engines. The Massassi base Y-wings don't seem have included any -B variants, and all on screen variants seem to be of the A4 type with the S3 only appearing in spinoff shows like the Holiday Special.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

BTL-A4s and -S3s were different models than the BTL-Bs from the clone wars. They may have been the civilian models or variants that were less bomber and more fighter. Perhaps the later models were ordered by the Empire but quickly scrapped for TIE series ships (and Gunboats!). At any rate they still had more hull paneling than what we see in ANH, although the models the Rebels used never seemed to have had the bubble canopies. The rebel refit of the Y-wings was basically removing most of the armour plating to make them faster and easier to maintain and possibly juicing the engines. The Massassi base Y-wings don't seem have included any -B variants, and all on screen variants seem to be of the A4 type with the S3 only appearing in spinoff shows like the Holiday Special.

 

The ships in Rebels appear to be two-seaters: "S3s" - Given that the Trivia gallery says that they "will make their way to the Gold Squadron seen in the attack against the Death Star in ANH"

 

http://www.starwars.com/episodes/steps-into-shadow-trivia-gallery

 

it seems to me possible that, in the newcanon, the "A4-type" may not in fact exist as a separate production model type, but simply be a modification of the S3 type.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

BTL-A4s and -S3s were different models than the BTL-Bs from the clone wars. They may have been the civilian models or variants that were less bomber and more fighter. Perhaps the later models were ordered by the Empire but quickly scrapped for TIE series ships (and Gunboats!). At any rate they still had more hull paneling than what we see in ANH, although the models the Rebels used never seemed to have had the bubble canopies. The rebel refit of the Y-wings was basically removing most of the armour plating to make them faster and easier to maintain and possibly juicing the engines. The Massassi base Y-wings don't seem have included any -B variants, and all on screen variants seem to be of the A4 type with the S3 only appearing in spinoff shows like the Holiday Special.

The ships in Rebels appear to be two-seaters: "S3s" - Given that the Trivia gallery says that they "will make their way to the Gold Squadron seen in the attack against the Death Star in ANH"

 

http://www.starwars.com/episodes/steps-into-shadow-trivia-gallery

 

it seems to me possible that, in the newcanon, the "A4-type" may not in fact exist as a separate production model type, but simply be a modification of the S3 type.

Bingo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless of what the Trivia Gallery says, the Y-wings in Rebels are closer to the shape of the BTL-B (Clone Wars) than to the BTL-A4 (A New Hope). Look at the shape of the hull under the turret on the Rebels' Y-wings. The same cylindrical shape appears on the BTL-B. The turret bubble has been replaced with a bigger turret without bubble. Perhaps manned from inside the main cockpit body.

The Episode 4 Y-wings have the turret more towards the rear of the cockpit, don't have the cylindrical structure under it and are, all in all, quite a different model.

 

Of course, you could excuse this by calling it an artistic liberty, much in the way that TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers in Rebels look quite different from those in the movies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regardless of what the Trivia Gallery says, the Y-wings in Rebels are closer to the shape of the BTL-B (Clone Wars) than to the BTL-A4 (A New Hope). Look at the shape of the hull under the turret on the Rebels' Y-wings. The same cylindrical shape appears on the BTL-B. The turret bubble has been replaced with a bigger turret without bubble. Perhaps manned from inside the main cockpit body.

The Episode 4 Y-wings have the turret more towards the rear of the cockpit, don't have the cylindrical structure under it and are, all in all, quite a different model.

 

Of course, you could excuse this by calling it an artistic liberty, much in the way that TIE Fighters and Star Destroyers in Rebels look quite different from those in the movies.

I figured the S3 was pretty close to the B except mounting an ion cannon turret instead of the bubble TLT. I really need to catch up on my rebels, I've missed way too many episodes

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I figured the S3 was pretty close to the B except mounting an ion cannon turret instead of the bubble TLT. 
 

The nacelle shape and length match up more to the BTL-A4 - and the rest of the hull other than the cockpit, also matches up well. I'd say it looks even more like the BTL-A4 than the "armored ICS version" did.

 

http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/episodes/steps-into-shadow-behind-the-scenes-gallery

 

New_Y-Wing.jpg
Edited by Ironlord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arguing about the scale of a made up ship and the dimensions of a made up cockpit would have be a new low... But you are missing some important info. It's a GR, but what model of GR is it? Rebels happens 5 years before Episode 4. Maybe they scaled back the size, maybe they increased it?????? The point is it happens in a universe that we know virtually nothing about until someone makes it up. Do ships vary from construction yard to construction yard? To think that all vehicles manufactured by a manufacturer are identical is a fallacy. There are so many what if's I will leave you to think about it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 It's a GR, but what model of GR is it? Rebels happens 5 years before Episode 4. Maybe they scaled back the size, maybe they increased it?????? 

 

From the trivia gallery, it seems it's the TESB one:

 

http://www.starwars.com/tv-shows/star-wars-rebels/the-antilles-extraction-trivia-gallery

 

"This episode marks the series debut of the classic Rebel transport design first seen in The Empire Strikes Back."

 

Now, it's true that the newcanon has acknowledged the existence of other models:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/GR-45_medium_transport/Canon

 

but we're not given any reason to believe that these are other models.

Edited by Ironlord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kids these days, they have no understanding of how these things work.

 

rebel-transport.jpg

 

Ok first, you put the figures up front to pilot the ship, that is where the bridge is. Second, that sensor pod thing is actually a handle that allows you to get a real good grip on the ship so you can use it more effectively as a weapon to smash your brother's face with, unless mom is around, in which case it's the thingy you twist to pull the ship apart.

 

It was intended to be the bridge but even in the movies ILM never made the model large enough to be a full bridge when compared to the models of the X-wings they used to fly beside it. The bridge is just a bit bigger than an xwing which can only hold one pilot.

Tyrant-disabled.jpg

 

However, a single dude sitting in the GR-75's cockpit isn't nearly as interesting as a crew interacting in the GR-75's bridge. It's always better to tell a good story than to go full aspergers and pull out a ruler. It's a fictional ship, it doesn't exist, so it really doesn't matter.

When I was a kid I flew the Transport around with the handle appearantly position backwards, pretending it was a rather large laser turret that emitted a thin but devastating beam. And of course every rebel fit inside so they could have wild house parties. It was a much better figure case than the Vader or 3PO cases.

Anyway, a simple transport wouldn't need more than two crew members in the cockpit anyway, they could fit snuggly side by side. If there was a need for a navigator, engineer, or what have you they could hang out below deck somewhere. Where is he passanger area, it seems that almost the entire structure is dedicated to those colorful space box containers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Where is he passanger area, it seems that almost the entire structure is dedicated to those colorful space box containers.

 

Going by Complete Locations - standard ones don't come with a passenger area - but Rebel ones are sometimes converted to have them, reducing transport capacity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/10/2016 at 2:18 PM, xanderf said:

Not just an aesthetic 'from the outside' thing that could be interpreted to be a stylistic change and nothing else (IE., the 'giraffe-class Star Destroyers').

 

No, they pretty clearly re-interpreted the 'sensor pod' on top of the GR75 as its bridge - you can see from the perspective of the shot, here, that the crew is DEFINITELY in that pod on top:

 

gr75%20scaling.jpg

 

...and especially noting the room as they pan around it when taking damage (last shot, there)...

 

That pod on top is pretty clearly *at least* as large as the Millennium Falcon's cockpit.

 

This makes the GR75 *considerably* larger than the model we currently have for it - at present, there is no way any crew could possibly fit up there.

the gr75 model in x-wing is between 1/450 and 1/500ish in scale.  keep in mind George Lucas  describes the passenger deck of the gr75 transporting over 1,000 people comfortably, and thats not the primary purpose of the ship.  its the star wars version of a mercantile container ship.  In 1/270 scale it would be nearly 2 feet long so they scaled it down for game mechanics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...