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Elder Thing

Syzygy/Ithaqua

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I'm slightly confused by how to implement Syzygy's Awakening effect. I understand the two conditions that can cause the card to be flipped over. But, once the card is flipped, do you then ONLY resolve the Final Mystery - or, are you allowed to go on resolving additional 'normal' mysteries, and would there be any benefit to doing so? Similarly, in the case of the card being flipped over due to the accumulation of Eldritch Tokens on the Omen track, what happens to the possibly partially completed Mystery in play before the card was flipped? Do you just abandon it, or complete it, and possibly then go on to resolve other 'normal' mysteries?

 

Also on the Ithaqua mystery 'Exploring Hyperborea', the card states that it is solved by placing Clues on it, but all the Special Encounter cards for the mystery seem to mention the placing of Eldritch tokens on the card after successful resolution. I take it this is pretty obviously just a misprint, and what the card should say is "... if there are Eldritch Tokens on this card equal to half [number of investigators], solve this Mystery", but please can someone confirm that this is the case - or, is it the Encounter cards that are wrong, and the Mystery card that is correct?

 

Many thanks for any help.

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I'm slightly confused by how to implement Syzygy's Awakening effect. I understand the two conditions that can cause the card to be flipped over. But, once the card is flipped, do you then ONLY resolve the Final Mystery - or, are you allowed to go on resolving additional 'normal' mysteries, and would there be any benefit to doing so? Similarly, in the case of the card being flipped over due to the accumulation of Eldritch Tokens on the Omen track, what happens to the possibly partially completed Mystery in play before the card was flipped? Do you just abandon it, or complete it, and possibly then go on to resolve other 'normal' mysteries?

You only get the opportunity to put tokens on Syzgy's card when it flips, so I can see no benefit to continuing to work on any unresolved mystery.  Basically, once Syzygy flips you focus on the resolving the final mystery.  The benefit to completing the 'normal' mysteries before then is less work to do on the final mystery.

 

Also on the Ithaqua mystery 'Exploring Hyperborea', the card states that it is solved by placing Clues on it, but all the Special Encounter cards for the mystery seem to mention the placing of Eldritch tokens on the card after successful resolution. I take it this is pretty obviously just a misprint, and what the card should say is "... if there are Eldritch Tokens on this card equal to half [number of investigators], solve this Mystery", but please can someone confirm that this is the case - or, is it the Encounter cards that are wrong, and the Mystery card that is correct?

 

You are correct: from the FAQ

From the Mountains of Madness expansion, the Exploring Hyperborea Mystery’s final paragraph should read as follows: “At the end of the Mythos Phase, if there are Eldritch tokens on this card equal to half [investigators] solve this Mystery.” 

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what happens to the possibly partially completed Mystery in play before the card was flipped?

I'm not willing to search for the official clarification, but as far as I remember the regular Mystery remains in place and you can solve it if you deem that beneficial in your game state.

 

Also on the Ithaqua mystery 'Exploring Hyperborea', the card states that it is solved by placing Clues on it, but all the Special Encounter cards for the mystery seem to mention the placing of Eldritch tokens on the card after successful resolution. I take it this is pretty obviously just a misprint (...)

Yes, it is. It was corrected in the official errata.

 

You only get the opportunity to put tokens on Syzgy's card when it flips, so I can see no benefit to continuing to work on any unresolved mystery.  Basically, once Syzygy flips you focus on the resolving the final mystery.  The benefit to completing the 'normal' mysteries before then is less work to do on the final mystery.

A substantial amount of Sealing the Portal encounters cares for the amount of Mysteries you have completed.

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what happens to the possibly partially completed Mystery in play before the card was flipped?

I'm not willing to search for the official clarification, but as far as I remember the regular Mystery remains in place and you can solve it if you deem that beneficial in your game state.

 

 

This is correct

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Many thanks for all who responded.

 

I can't get the system for quoting from previous posts here to work, so I'm just going to copy and paste the relevant sections..

 

" .... so I can see no benefit to continuing to work on any unresolved mystery"

 

Well, the benefit would perhaps appear to be this:

 

"A substantial amount of Sealing the Portal encounters cares for the amount of Mysteries you have completed."

 

If I'm understanding what people are saying correctly, though, the bonus to resolving  Sealing the Portal encounters is derived strictly from 'normal' Mysteries fully resolved BEFORE THE ANCIENT ONE SHEET IS FLIPPED, and, therefore, there would indeed be no benefit from continuing to resolve 'normal' mysteries after this has happened. Is this correct?

 

Thanks again for any advice.

Edited by Elder Thing

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Many thanks for all who responded.

 

I can't get the system for quoting from previous posts here to work, so I'm just going to copy and paste the relevant sections..

 

" .... so I can see no benefit to continuing to work on any unresolved mystery"

 

Well, the benefit would perhaps appear to be this:

 

"A substantial amount of Sealing the Portal encounters cares for the amount of Mysteries you have completed."

 

If I'm understanding what people are saying correctly, though, the bonus to resolving  Sealing the Portal encounters is derived strictly from 'normal' Mysteries fully resolved BEFORE THE ANCIENT ONE SHEET IS FLIPPED, and, therefore, there would indeed be no benefit from continuing to resolve 'normal' mysteries after this has happened. Is this correct?

 

Thanks again for any advice.

 

If it is indeed the case that some of the final mystery cards have modifiers based on number of mysteries already solved (as opposed to just number of token currently placed on Syzygy's sheet), then yes, there could be some benefit to solving an active mystery after Syzygy awakens provided it doesn't take too much effort.

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though, the bonus to resolving  Sealing the Portal encounters is derived strictly from 'normal' Mysteries fully resolved BEFORE THE ANCIENT ONE SHEET IS FLIPPED

The game has no way to differentiate which mysteries were solved before and which mysteries were solved after the AO's awakening.

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"The game has no way to differentiate which mysteries were solved before and which mysteries were solved after the AO's awakening."

 

Well, actually, it does. It would do so in the form of a rule, which either allows or does not allow the completion of 'extra' mysteries after Syzygy awakens.

 

Our discussion seems to have wandered slightly from my original question, which was not really about the advisability or otherwise of solving such 'extra' mysteries, and was instead about what the specific RULES position is in relation to whether this is allowed or not. Can I take it from everything that people have said that the answer is 'yes' - the specific ruling for the Awakening for this Ancient One DOES allow you to continue to resolve mysteries after the awakening?

 

Very grateful for the continued help BTW :) !

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the specific ruling for the Awakening for this Ancient One DOES allow you to continue to resolve mysteries after the awakening?

It's not specific to this Ancient One.

Quite the opposite: It's specific to this Ancient One that once it awakens you can disregard regular mysteries.

Edited by tsuma534

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{Deep breath} Ok, so after the several posts above in which the advisability or otherwise of continuing to solve Mysteries after Syzygy's Awakening is discussed, thereby implying that the rules allow it, what you are NOW saying is that you disregard the 'normal' Mysteries after Awakening?

 

Really, I am grateful for the advice of anyone who responded. However, if people are going to give contradictory answers, this is not helpful

 

I think I'll have one more go at this, and then probably let it drop. I'll try and strip the question down to the most essential and (hopefully) clear form possible:

 

Syzygy Awakens, and the Ancient One card is flipped over. At this point, and for the remainder of the game:

 

A) The rules allow you to continue to try and solve additional 'normal', i.e. not 'Final' mysteries

 

or

 

B) The rules DO NOT allow you to continue to resolve such Mysteries

 

I think if anyone cares to answer, if they just do so by indicating 'A' or 'B' at this stage, that would probably be best

 

Thanks again

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A) Rules allow you to solve normal mystery,

 

Additional commentary:

There is nothing in the rulebook that explicitly states this fact.  The closest I can find in the rulebook is on p. 2 of the reference book where the following appears under "Ancient One":

 

Once the Ancient One awakens, the investigators must complete the Final Mystery on the back of the Ancient One sheet in addition to the other Mysteries. 

 

Note that this rule does not state you must complete a certain number of "other" mysteries, however most of the Ancient Ones have rules that prevent you from starting on the final mystery until certain prerequisites have been met (e.g. for Cthulhu's final mystery you must defeat the Cthulhu epic monster, however the epic monster doesn't spawn until after three mysteries have been solved).  

 

Syzygy is a special case as there is no way to defeat except by Final mystery since the front of the sheet doesn't have a "win" condition - Syzygy will always wake up. And once Syzygy wakes up you need to complete the final mystery to win ... but nothing stops you from also working on normal mysteries if you choose to.

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{Deep breath} Ok, so after the several posts above in which the advisability or otherwise of continuing to solve Mysteries after Syzygy's Awakening is discussed, thereby implying that the rules allow it, what you are NOW saying is that you disregard the 'normal' Mysteries after Awakening?

 

Really, I am grateful for the advice of anyone who responded. However, if people are going to give contradictory answers, this is not helpful

After AO wakes up you're free to work on regular mysteries. This is true for all AOs.

In many cases you'll have to solve those mysteries as for the most AO's the Final Mystery only becomes available after you solve the regular mysteries.

 

Syzygy features two exceptions:

1) "It" always wakes up.

2) You don't have to solve any of the regular mysteries, neither before the awakening nor after it.

Is this clear now?

 

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Different question about Syzygy: Can you retreat doom when Syzygys sheet is flipped? Reference guide says that when ancient one awakens, doom cannot retreat but Syzygy actually doesnt "awake". Any thoughts?

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That is an interesting point about this guy in respect of the fact that we worked hard to complete to mysteries to flip him so that we could try and do the final mystery. Had we not gotten hammered in a few mythos phases and had doom advance so much, we could have just beefed up, closed gates and waited for him to flip. I am not sure we would ever intentionally try that but an interesting idea. I would think that unless the rules for Syzygy specifically state that you can retreat doom, I would think that you are stuck. Then again with him 0 = Death for doom, so who knows?

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