Biophysical

Observations on Quickdraw and her role in squads

146 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

I'm still not sure I like its odds against Triple Defenders, but I won't lie, it IS interesting.

Hmmm...

34 Quickdraw w/ Swarm Leader + FCS + Title

26 Omega Leader w/ Juke/Comm Relay

16 Youngster w/ Rage

12 Academy Pilot

12 Academy Pilot

OL can ALSO tap into Rage if you've flown him well into good shots. FCS is a disincentive to shoot QD back, but on the other hand if she's rolling 5-6 dice do you have an alternative?

Dizzam. I like this list. I've missed flying low-level TIEs.

Edited by iamfanboy
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This list I've been using over the past couple of months with some success. Defence via red dice.

Gunslingers (100)

"Quickdraw" (38) - TIE/SF Fighter
Rage (1), Electronic Baffle (1), Homing Missiles (5), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

"Backdraft" (37) - TIE/SF Fighter
Veteran Instincts (1), Fire Control System (2), Homing Missiles (5), Special Ops Training (0), Lightweight Frame (2)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (25) - TIE Bomber
Wired (1), TIE Shuttle (0), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1), Inspiring Recruit (1), Fleet Officer (3)

 

 

 

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So, I have been playtesting the following list, which I posted a couple pages back, but will repost:

Quickdraw: Swarm Leader, Baffle, Pattern Analyzer, MkII engines, title (36)

Youngster: Rage (16)

4 Academy Pilots (48)

In my first league match with it I flew against Dengar and Bossk. My opponent was very cautious and patient, and I flubbed a couple moves with my ships because the dials on the SF and LN are so different. Bossk got off a guidance chip homing missile and knocked out all of QD's shields, and she didn't even have arc for a revenge shot. I crawled my way back, blocking diligently and still swarm leadering with QD and got Dengar down to 1 hull left with 3 Ties left on the board. He made a couple crucial unmodified defense rolls and won the game. I learned a valuable lesson about deploying and engaging.

Tonight I just played against Bossk Ketsu, and I 1 shot Bossk with Quickdraw. On turn 2. He was blocked onto an asteroid (which took one shield off), and quickdraw got into range 1 and unloaded 2 rage'd 6 dice shots into Bossk's face. It was insane. Then the random number generator broke, and the remaining TIEs took 7 health off of Ketsu, who I had also blocked. The next turn Quickdraw does a green, uses the auxiliary arc, rages, and kills Ketsu. Quickdraw definitely has an important role in squads, and it is one that is extremely difficult for your opponent to play around. Her biggest weakness is hyper maneuverable ships like Phantoms or SuperDash, or control, like stress/ion/tractor effects. 

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Posted (edited)

I've found Quickdraw to be a good partner for RAC. The way i run him is with Expertise, Baffle and Pattern Analyser. First thing i do with RAC is Kylo any Ace with a 0PS crit and put Quickdraw in their face. Rac+Draw is a dilemna for most opponent... who's the target priority?

Quick is nice on offense but he is also a really good finisher if RAC goes down first. If you can, you wait end game to lose those shields and you have an high PS pilot with a nimble ship and a potential 3 round of attacking twice. Each time the extra attack will most likely be against a pre action ship. 1 vs 1 it's nasty. Especially if RAC had time to PS0 his opponent :-)

The biggest chalenge with him is to know when it's time to baffle. I've never tried him with Lone Wolf but it could also be an option...

Edited by Thormind

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25 minutes ago, Thormind said:

I've found Quickdraw to be a good partner for RAC. The way i run him is with Expertise, Baffle and Pattern Analyser. First thing i do with RAC is Kylo any Ace with a 0PS crit and put Quickdraw in their face. Rac+Draw is a dilemna for most opponent... who's the target priority?

Quick is nice on offense but he is also a really good finisher if RAC goes down first. If you can, you wait end game to lose those shields and you have an high PS pilot with a nimble ship and a potential 3 round of attacking twice. Each time the extra attack will most likely be against a pre action ship. 1 vs 1 it's nasty. Especially if RAC had time to PS0 his opponent :-)

The biggest chalenge with him is to know when it's time to baffle. I've never tried him with Lone Wolf but it could also be an option...

Problem with handing an Ace the 0 PS crit is that your "Baffle Combo" is now extremely ineffective (the Ace will be able to token up before you get a chance to Baffle).

If you never use the Baffle Combo, I guess you're fine, but I'd rather have FCS somewhere in there, then.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Biophysical said:

The Baffle Combo is just as good for double-tapping a lower PS ship as it is for shooting a higher PS ship that hasn't moved yet.

Maybe my head cold is affecting my thought process, but would a lower PS ship NOT get a chance to token up PRIOR to Quickdraw's attack?

Meaning that Quickdraw has a much easier time hitting higher PS targets during the Activation phase?

... Therefore being a complete contradiction to your statement that it's "just as good" vs lower or higher PS ships?

Moreover, the lower PS ship could put itself out of arc/range when it moves, where a higher PS ship is stuck right where you want it for Activation phase shooting?

Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that the Baffle Combo was so Quickdraw could go Ace Hunting in the Activation phase. Sure, dropping an Ace to PS 0 is a solid move in general... But I don't see how it plays well with this particular combo (much better to do the expected blinded pilot, so Quickdraw can attack without fear of reprisal).

EDIT: Caught a bit of what the head cold was preventing me from noticing - you compare double tapping to shooting in activation phase. I still disagree, but I guess that's more of an opinion/based on how foolish your opponent approaches Quickdraw. I'd much rather get a shot against a defenseless ship than shoot twice at someone sporting a full compliment of tokens.

Edited by ArbitraryNerd

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

Problem with handing an Ace the 0 PS crit is that your "Baffle Combo" is now extremely ineffective (the Ace will be able to token up before you get a chance to Baffle).

If you never use the Baffle Combo, I guess you're fine, but I'd rather have FCS somewhere in there, then.

- An ace at 0ps is most likely a dead ace... Try to do that trick vs Fenn or vs another Quick, you'll understand :-)  Both RAC and Quick are pretty good at dodging and positioning.

- You have more than one ship in a squad, you can still use baffle on the other ones.

- Pattern Analyser allows you to keep your actions even when you stress yourself. Baffle is for special situations.

- Most player make the mistake of using baffle to soon. You do not have to use it in every game. Just the fact that it's there messes up with your opponent decision. Most of the time you want to keep Quick at full health as long as possible when teaming him with RAC. He's your finisher.

- What makes him good in this combo is the choice your opponent has to make. Both pilot are good finishers. Leaving Quick untouched until end game is very risky. So is not focusing fire on RAC wile you have the firepower to put him down fast enough.

Edited by Thormind
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5 minutes ago, Thormind said:

- An ace at 0ps is most likely a dead ace... Try to do that trick vs Fenn or vs another Quick, you'll understand :-)  Both RAC and Quick are pretty good at dodging and positioning.

- You have more than one ship in a squad, you can still use baffle on the other ones.

- Pattern Analyser allows you to keep your actions even when you stress yourself. Baffle is for special situations.

- Most player make the mistake of using baffle to soon. You do not have to use it in every game. Just the fact that it's there messes up with your opponent decision. Most of the time you want to keep Quick at full health as long as possible when teaming him with RAC. He's your finisher.

 

I'll accept this. Having flown Quickdraw all of twice, sans Baffle, I'm unfamiliar with the execution, it just looked odd on paper.

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if i had the baffles trick i wouldnt even use it unless i had a range1 shot that was about to go away once my opponent moves.

Gotta remember, if you pull that trigger early, then they have no fear in shooting you.

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1 hour ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

EDIT: Caught a bit of what the head cold was preventing me from noticing - you compare double tapping to shooting in activation phase. I still disagree, but I guess that's more of an opinion/based on how foolish your opponent approaches Quickdraw. I'd much rather get a shot against a defenseless ship than shoot twice at someone sporting a full compliment of tokens.

You're pretty much on the right track.  My view is this:

Activating before a high PS ace and firing before they activate is nice.  The issue is that they will then move away, so you're not really focusing fire all that well.  That can be fine because one good shot at a low HP ace with no tokens is still really good.

If you're firing at stuff that has already moved, it is still in your arc for your normal shot, so it doesn't matter so much of it has tokens.  You get two quality attacks on a target, and that takes stuff out quick. 

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7 hours ago, Gersun said:

So, I have been playtesting the following list, which I posted a couple pages back, but will repost:

Quickdraw: Swarm Leader, Baffle, Pattern Analyzer, MkII engines, title (36)

Youngster: Rage (16)

4 Academy Pilots (48)

In my first league match with it I flew against Dengar and Bossk. My opponent was very cautious and patient, and I flubbed a couple moves with my ships because the dials on the SF and LN are so different. Bossk got off a guidance chip homing missile and knocked out all of QD's shields, and she didn't even have arc for a revenge shot. I crawled my way back, blocking diligently and still swarm leadering with QD and got Dengar down to 1 hull left with 3 Ties left on the board. He made a couple crucial unmodified defense rolls and won the game. I learned a valuable lesson about deploying and engaging.

Tonight I just played against Bossk Ketsu, and I 1 shot Bossk with Quickdraw. On turn 2. He was blocked onto an asteroid (which took one shield off), and quickdraw got into range 1 and unloaded 2 rage'd 6 dice shots into Bossk's face. It was insane. Then the random number generator broke, and the remaining TIEs took 7 health off of Ketsu, who I had also blocked. The next turn Quickdraw does a green, uses the auxiliary arc, rages, and kills Ketsu. Quickdraw definitely has an important role in squads, and it is one that is extremely difficult for your opponent to play around. Her biggest weakness is hyper maneuverable ships like Phantoms or SuperDash, or control, like stress/ion/tractor effects. 

Swarm Leader is becoming one of my favorite design'ed upgrades.  Has cost, but its really good.  Unique.  Ersh.  Its just great fun and really helps a lot of list ideas.  

(Also, this list looks really fun) 

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I've found success with a variant of a build I saw did well at a tournament, which had QD, Omega Leader, and Tomax. My variant is this:

Quickdraw: Draw their Fire, FCS, Homing Missiles, PA, LWF

Deathfire: Homing Missiles, EM, Cluster Mines, LRS

Backdraft: VI, FCS, Primed Thrusters

 

Works great because EVERYONE hates Deathfire, and want to PS kill him, which is really hard with Quickdraw sucking up the crits. Also, Bombers hate crits, so makes the opening approach alot less scary for them, especially on the second turn when Deathfire can do Deathfire things and drop Clusters right in the path of the enemy. If my Homing Missile hits and my clusters hit, I generally find that I've traded Deathfire for some crucial ship in their list, and then my two SFs arc dodge and finish what's left.

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Posted (edited)

24 minutes ago, SirCormac said:

I've found success with a variant of a build I saw did well at a tournament, which had QD, Omega Leader, and Tomax. My variant is this:

Quickdraw: Draw their Fire, FCS, Homing Missiles, PA, LWF

Deathfire: Homing Missiles, EM, Cluster Mines, LRS

Backdraft: VI, FCS, Primed Thrusters

 

Works great because EVERYONE hates Deathfire, and want to PS kill him, which is really hard with Quickdraw sucking up the crits. Also, Bombers hate crits, so makes the opening approach alot less scary for them, especially on the second turn when Deathfire can do Deathfire things and drop Clusters right in the path of the enemy. If my Homing Missile hits and my clusters hit, I generally find that I've traded Deathfire for some crucial ship in their list, and then my two SFs arc dodge and finish what's left.

Yeah thats an option i want to try on my RAC+Quick team. I could remove Determination from RAC and put VI back. Draw their fire + FCS + Pattern on Quick. Decimator is just as sensitive to crit as Bombers. Only thing is i would be screwed if they focus on Quick first. Also not sure if FCS is more effective than lone wolf for when Quick is alone.

Edited by Thormind
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3 minutes ago, Thormind said:

Yeah thats an option i want to try on my RAC+Quick team. Removed Determination from RAC and put VI back. Draw their fire + FCS + Pattern on Quick. Decimator is just as sensitive to crit as Bombers. Only thing is i would be screwed if they focus on Quick first.

Yeah the problem is quick draw can die very fast and I would just blind I'm him, be safe from one attack, then finish him off the next turn, I faced Quickdraw with my rac lo list and he went down fast for sure like that. Then save a ps o crit for rac and the bump damage one

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My opinion on Quickdraw is that you should not chase his ability, instead just build him as a standard fighter but with a deterrent with regards to shooting at him, an "anti-biggs", if you will.

I have been doing reasonably well with my list, #Nickdraw (adapted from Marc Sebo/Ian O'Connell), where my Quickdraw basically acts as a bodyguard for Vessery, as well as feeds Vessery the crucial PS9 Tractor Beam double tap.

My Quickdraw Build:

"Quickdraw" — TIE/sf Fighter 29
Decoy 2
Fire-Control System 2
Pattern Analyzer 2
Lightweight Frame 2
Special Ops Training 0
Ship Total: 37

 

I found that there are two critical upgrades that make this particular build successful: Pattern analyser and LWF.

Pattern Analyzer opens up the SF's dial so much... I cant even begin to describe it. If you havent already, try it!

LWF just makes QD so much better, and increases that deterrent factor so much. Quickdraw in particular is probably the best candidate for LWF in my opinion (Strikers are better off without it IMO, or even with TIEmkII.)

I even wrote a blogpost about my list and my experience at the London Regionals/Yavin Open 2017!

Check it out here:

https://medium.com/186th-squadron/nickdraw-goes-to-yavin-73c1e741c5fb#.7kfymafe1

 

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, nicholasyt said:

My opinion on Quickdraw is that you should not chase his ability, instead just build him as a standard fighter but with a deterrent with regards to shooting at him, an "anti-biggs", if you will.

I disagree completely.

Only three other models in the game can leverage having two attacks in one round (Corran, TIE/D, Dengar) and theirs are far more conditional than QD's. Add that QD can take one attack during the Activation Phase, where higher PS aces haven't yet tokened up or maneuvered out of the way, and it'd be crazy to not lever it. It also forces them to take QD as a high-priority target, meaning that your game closers (OL, Inq) draw much less fire and attention. Controlling their gameplay choices while dealing lots of damage: both good things.

The downsides of not chasing his ability are also clear. If someone outmaneuvers you and removes your shields while you have no shots, then you've just wasted his ability. If you have no way to force the ability, then QD is much less of a threat and they're freer to go after your closers.

Now, if it were HARD to trigger the ability, if it required some frail combo of multiple ships to be in range 1 of QD and an elaborate sequence, then yes, chasing it would NOT be justified. In this case, though, you don't need anything fancy: Electronic Baffles, with the plethora of reds on the SF's dial, does the job by itself. Stacking in PTL or Rage is almost unnecessary, but helpful.

Think of it this way: Rage/Baffles Quickdraw is a 6-8 dice attack with TL and Focus at PS9+. What is better than that for 31 points? Each double tap costs 5.2 points, which in terms of ordnance is insane. 50-100% more damage than a Homing Missile for the same price? Even if you only get it off once and your opponent nails your two shields in the first exchange, all that you're left with is a PS9 ship that ignores the reds on its dial and has a three die primary with a secondary arc.

Frankly I'd love to see the jousting efficiency, @MajorJuggler.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, but the Empire has a lot of high PS ships well suited to the endgame. What it didn't really have is a (usable) in-your-face, "Do ALL the damage!" style ship. QD is a brutal contender for that slot.

Edited by iamfanboy
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I'm of the opinion that there are a lot of good ways to run Quickdraw.  I took her to regionals with Rage, Pattern Analyzer, Baffles, and Mk2 Engines, and being able to drop 6-8 modified dice onto someone is terrific.  I'd go up agaisnt full on party-Bossks, and you can always tell that on the approach they're very confident, happy to go head to head, and then after one round of fire from my squad (with Quickdraw contributing about half the damage) Bossk has 3-4 hp left and is easily finished off next turn.

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35 minutes ago, Biophysical said:

I'm of the opinion that there are a lot of good ways to run Quickdraw.  I took her to regionals with Rage, Pattern Analyzer, Baffles, and Mk2 Engines, and being able to drop 6-8 modified dice onto someone is terrific.  I'd go up agaisnt full on party-Bossks, and you can always tell that on the approach they're very confident, happy to go head to head, and then after one round of fire from my squad (with Quickdraw contributing about half the damage) Bossk has 3-4 hp left and is easily finished off next turn.

I agree wholeheartedly, I think that's what makes Quickdraw so good, and now with LWF, it really allows her to shine. As I mentioned in my post, if you pair her with a Biggs that the enemy REALLY wants to kill, and Draw their Fire, it works out really well. Now someone could attack my Quickdraw on the first round, but three dice, a focus, and shields are somewhat strong against it, combined with the revenge attack, most people choose to try to kill Deathfire, because they are afraid of his bombs. But if they don't, and they leave Deathfire untouched, ready to launch homing missiles and lay down clusters, really, I'm ok either way.

SO in conclusion, there are generally two types of QD. Those that burn themselves and lay a big hurt, or those than try to stay untouched and trigger their ability three times per game. I think both are good, in the right build.

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10 hours ago, Biophysical said:

I'm of the opinion that there are a lot of good ways to run Quickdraw.  I took her to regionals with Rage, Pattern Analyzer, Baffles, and Mk2 Engines, and being able to drop 6-8 modified dice onto someone is terrific.  I'd go up agaisnt full on party-Bossks, and you can always tell that on the approach they're very confident, happy to go head to head, and then after one round of fire from my squad (with Quickdraw contributing about half the damage) Bossk has 3-4 hp left and is easily finished off next turn.

What was the rest of the list, if you don't mind sharing? I've grown to like the TIE/SF more and more, so am always looking for interesting lists.

As my go to Palp & Omega Leader pairing doesn't work quite as well anymore, I've been feeling a bit lost.

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2 minutes ago, ArbitraryNerd said:

What was the rest of the list, if you don't mind sharing? I've grown to like the TIE/SF more and more, so am always looking for interesting lists.

As my go to Palp & Omega Leader pairing doesn't work quite as well anymore, I've been feeling a bit lost.

I had Rexler Brath with Predator, x7, and mk2 Engines, and standard Omega Leader.  It came to 99 points.  With currently available cards I'd look at Expertise instead of Predator on Rexler, and I might c9nsider one of the TIE Striker aces instead of OL if you're not having results that you like, although PL is still great.

 I haven't experimented with a modern, more sustainable, Quickdraw yet, I think my version is the best "burn the candle at both ends" version, because Mk2 Engines and Pattern Analyzer lets you use Rage a lot, and manage the stress very effectively without constantly burning shields.  You can move into combat range with a green move, Rage, then lose one of the stress through the green move thanks to PA, and have modified attacks if they the other side damages you.  The following turn, you can move into close range, clear stress on a green move, Rage and Baffle for a close range activation phase attack (having one stress left after the end) on top of your regular attack.  The next turn you take a green move, clear your remaining stress,  and get a regular action, stress free, or if you still have great targets, keep Raging.

PA just helps you have Rage in the most important turns of the games and it's useful all game long even when not raging.  

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