Biophysical

Observations on Quickdraw and her role in squads

146 posts in this topic

QD BD OL fits and is competitive.

 

E: "Backdraft" (27)
Lone Wolf (2)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Weapons Guidance (2)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Quickdraw" (29)
Rage (1)
Electronic Baffle (1)
Sensor Cluster (2)
Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)
Special Ops Training (0)

"Omega Leader" (21)
Juke (2)
Comm Relay (3)
Stealth Device (3)

Total: 99

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Edited by thespaceinvader

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Tried Rage/Baffle/Shield Upgrade last night and had a lot of fun. Didn't get a true feel for how strong it is though as the dice in the game were massively one-sided - Quickdraw rolled no blanks the whole game, and yet Fenn Rau shot QD at range 1 and rolled 1 hit and 4 blanks.  

 

Hopefully going to try a re-match tonight.

Edited by Red42

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QD is in honesty not worth the points...he dies so fast...against a tokend out defenderx2 range 1 (with both shots) he maybe does 3-4 damage total (on r2-3 way less) and in the return fire of 3 defenders he is toast with 5hp left 

Edited by xarathornx

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QD is in honesty not worth the points...he dies so fast...against a tokend out defenderx2 range 1 (with both shots) he maybe does 3-4 damage total (on r2-3 way less) and in the return fire of 3 defenders he is toast with 5hp left 

 

Why are you letting 3 enemy ships with lower PS shoot you at range 1? Or jousting them at all for that matter? Don't play to your enemy's strengths.

Edited by Red42
costi and AlexW like this

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QD is in honesty not worth the points...he dies so fast...against a tokend out defenderx2 range 1 (with both shots) he maybe does 3-4 damage total (on r2-3 way less) and in the return fire of 3 defenders he is toast with 5hp left 

 

Why are you letting 3 enemy ships with lower PS shoot you at range 1? Or jousting them at all for that matter? Don't play to your enemy's strengths.

 

 

It's also worth noting that there's not much else that can get 3-4 damage through on a defender in one round.  And, if it's a straight up joust and you had support ships on target you'd have a decent chance of finishing that defender off, which I believe would be trading a comparable value, though the way I'm running him (31 points) that would be a trade I would take since the defender is worth more.   It's another reason I think it's good to run him slim is that the way many squads are built today, 31 points is going to be less than a lot of opposing ships.   If he gets up near 34 or 35 (or even higher) he's suddenly in Soontir range and is a comparable to X7 defenders and more expensive than Torp boats.

Edited by AlexW

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Ran PTL Baffle QD yesterday along side Backdraft, Dark Curse, and Chase.

 

Im really not a fan of QD. Or at least, not a fan of the self-damage idea to force the doubletap. All 3 games i had the same issue where i did it once then got obliterated since even at range3 SFs arent too hard to hurt. She lacks the punch out the aux arc like Backdraft so its more difficult to dodge anything and still be a threat. Backdraft with Outmaneuver/FCS does so much more damage, and like i said before if youre going for aux arcs you can do some sneaky dodgy maneuvers and still have a shot.

QD is more expensive than a decked out Ryad, which does WAY more damage, lives longer, and since QD's aux arc is so weak its not even really a benefit to have it.

 

the more i use SFs the more i realize its just Backdraft lol. The generics if they only have a 1pt ept (crack) and FCS are cheap enough to take over a fair bit of filler ships. Maybe its just my meta not understanding aux arcs yet but seriously Backdraft is insane if flown right.

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My /sf has yet to turn up but I get the feeling that Rage Baffle is the way to run Quickdraw: she's an intense flame that burns bright but burns out fast. Backdraft is the one to go with for an extended dogfighter or if you're making any real point investment in the ship.

 

Almost tempted to go for Ruthlessness.

Edited by Blue Five

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Ran PTL Baffle QD yesterday along side Backdraft, Dark Curse, and Chase.

 

Im really not a fan of QD. Or at least, not a fan of the self-damage idea to force the doubletap. All 3 games i had the same issue where i did it once then got obliterated since even at range3 SFs arent too hard to hurt. She lacks the punch out the aux arc like Backdraft so its more difficult to dodge anything and still be a threat. Backdraft with Outmaneuver/FCS does so much more damage, and like i said before if youre going for aux arcs you can do some sneaky dodgy maneuvers and still have a shot.

QD is more expensive than a decked out Ryad, which does WAY more damage, lives longer, and since QD's aux arc is so weak its not even really a benefit to have it.

 

the more i use SFs the more i realize its just Backdraft lol. The generics if they only have a 1pt ept (crack) and FCS are cheap enough to take over a fair bit of filler ships. Maybe its just my meta not understanding aux arcs yet but seriously Backdraft is insane if flown right.

 

I think that learning when to use the self damage will be key.  It's a reason that just PTL/Baffle is one of the the more balanced builds    You have a PS 9 at 33 points that can have highly accurate shots and you only need to Baffle as a possible counter to a few ships in the meta.

 

You also bring up why I think the expensive version of QD probably isn't ideal.  A fully decked Ryad is usually at least 35 points and I really don't think QD should reach that mark (PTL+Baffle is probably my limit at 33).

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Im still playing around to find what he pairs with great but so far he almost feels x7 defender level of inclusion, i.e. you can slap him into any list you got the points and he'll do work. I say almost because his erratic flying pattern kinda shuts down LW strats and he is dodging everything so he'd be a bad frontliner for bombers to try and soak the blunt, because unlike defenders whom also have 6hp, SFs are squishy.

 

Ive been glued to this:

Backdraft

Outmaneuver (3)

FCS (2)

TIE MkII (1)

Title (0)

Cluster (2)

Total: 35pts

 

Cluster as ive said before i keep on there to keep his points consistent while i try to list build with him. Im actually not much of a fan of them. But until HOTR drops and i get my hands on pattern analyzers, which cost the same, i really need to not get used to him being 33pts. He'd probably be fine without a tech whatsoever but given the reds SFs have i often wish i could do said red move and THEN barrelroll or focus.

He's the same price as an x7 Ryad with Juke/Mk2, which like i said with QD would technically invalidate him since she is in a superior ship. HOWEVER, his aux arc shenanigans counter this argument for him alone. Seriously that autocrit is dank as hell lol. He hits just as hard as a defender out of both arcs and is arguably harder to hit because he swerves for his shots while a defender does a 4K dance.

 

edit: hmm....perhaps i should pair them...two completely different evasive-dodgy strat ships that hit equally hard... one is more predictable but hard to hurt while the other is squirrely as hell to make up for his lack of agi. That would be 70pts for the pair...just enough for OL!! oo..ideas...ideas...

Edited by Vineheart01
Biophysical and Kanawolf like this

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Ran PTL Baffle QD yesterday along side Backdraft, Dark Curse, and Chase.

 

Im really not a fan of QD. Or at least, not a fan of the self-damage idea to force the doubletap. All 3 games i had the same issue where i did it once then got obliterated since even at range3 SFs arent too hard to hurt. She lacks the punch out the aux arc like Backdraft so its more difficult to dodge anything and still be a threat. Backdraft with Outmaneuver/FCS does so much more damage, and like i said before if youre going for aux arcs you can do some sneaky dodgy maneuvers and still have a shot.

QD is more expensive than a decked out Ryad, which does WAY more damage, lives longer, and since QD's aux arc is so weak its not even really a benefit to have it.

 

the more i use SFs the more i realize its just Backdraft lol. The generics if they only have a 1pt ept (crack) and FCS are cheap enough to take over a fair bit of filler ships. Maybe its just my meta not understanding aux arcs yet but seriously Backdraft is insane if flown right.

 

I think that learning when to use the self damage will be key.  It's a reason that just PTL/Baffle is one of the the more balanced builds    You have a PS 9 at 33 points that can have highly accurate shots and you only need to Baffle as a possible counter to a few ships in the meta.

 

You also bring up why I think the expensive version of QD probably isn't ideal.  A fully decked Ryad is usually at least 35 points and I really don't think QD should reach that mark (PTL+Baffle is probably my limit at 33).

 

 

I agree.  You self-damage when you really need to do damage to something that is about to get powerful (through actions or "beginning of combat" abilities, or when you want the extra damage so you can finish something off to protect your other ships.  Ryad is an extraordinary ship, and I won't speak ill of her, but she really does different things from Quickdraw.  They can hit with approximately the same damage for the average shot, but Quickdraw gives up endurance for PS9, the ability to spike damage, a totally different sort of dial, and a small amount of squad points.  

 

When I've had success with Quickdraw, it's usually as a flanker to my other two ships.  If she becomes the target, my others, both of whom are better closers than Quickdraw, will be in advantageous positions.  Quickdraw herself can try to survive by running, fighting through it, or going out in a blaze of glory and taking someone down with her.

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Im liking quickdraw almost for the Biggs ability she has. I send her in there get that glorious double tap with Rage + Baffle. She has two shields left and the opponent does not want another one of those double taps, so they shoot her instead of my other ships. I flew her straight at Ventress. Knocked off 5 hp on Ventress. My opponent could either shoot at quickdraw or carnor jax. It went for quickdraw and got the rest her shields. Now my opponent, happy not to have quickdraw double tapping, has to either keep on going after this PS9 ship with rear arc or split his fire and go after bigger endgame threats, in this case Carnor Jax and Ryad (both ships not easily taken down).

 

I have enough points for a PTL + Baffle Quickdraw, so I think I will try that next and see how it goes. I have yet to play slowly with Quickdraw.

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I don't recall this being brought up, but Primed Thrusters and Pattern Analyzer both seem to be major tech pieces for the SFs. I can easily see Primed Thrusters for a Rage Baffle Quickdraw to open up her ability to reposition by still doing a white maneuver after a Rage/baffle first round engagement instead of relying on only greens. Granted the argument can be made that TIEMKII in the mod slot for the same price can do mostly the same thing, but that 2 turn/barrell roll availability can help for that 2nd turn of engagement to be more unpredictable. 

 

Anything not using rage for SFs (PTL QD or BD) can get a bigger benefit from Pattern Analyzers. That dial has a whole lot of red that Pattern Analyzers can take full advantage of and still take an action. 

 

How much of a boost do we expect SFs to get once these two techs are available? It seems to me, it can be quite significant. 

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Eh...new tech on the sf is imo negligible

Because, again imo, you want to spend as little as possible on these guys. 6 health 2 agi will melt and getting into x7 defender prices is just a recipe for regret (over not having brought an x7)

Outside primed thrusters to open up backdraft'ss dial and augment his arcdodging capability (and his cavalier attitude to stress, relative to most other imp aces), i dont think you should bother with the tech slot

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Eh...new tech on the sf is imo negligible

Because, again imo, you want to spend as little as possible on these guys. 6 health 2 agi will melt and getting into x7 defender prices is just a recipe for regret (over not having brought an x7)

Outside primed thrusters to open up backdraft'ss dial and augment his arcdodging capability (and his cavalier attitude to stress, relative to most other imp aces), i dont think you should bother with the tech slot

 

Pattern Analyzers is something I'm pretty interested in, but I think she needs some extra defensive tech to make it worthwhile.  It's useful for just the red moves alone, but a PTL or Rage build could pull a green move, then take actions, then clear the stress using PA.  You couldn't do it indefinitely with Rage, but you could get it 2 turns in a row without even using Baffles.  I'm not sure there's good defensive tech for her right now to turn her from a maniac sledgehammer into a shifty jouster, though.  

 

Theoretically, if Lightened Frame costs 3 points, and adds 1 AGI for any attack throwing more attack dice than her defense dice (the current guess based on the words we can see), you could do a superiority fighter build with something like:

 

Quickdraw 29, PTL 3, Sensor Jammer 4, Pattern Analyzer 2, Lightened Frame 3 = 41 points

 

That seems too expensive, but she would be tough, at least, and anyone spending a Focus to force damage through would get a counterpunch of Quickdraw's primaries with no Focus to defend themselves.  

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Sensor Jammer is an interesting idea, Bio. You're forcing the attacker to make a choice between forcing damage through, but compromising their own defence against the Quickdraw double-tap. I like the idea of that, coupled with another ship in the list equipped with Juke, just to double down on that situation. Maybe a Ryad or Omega Leader in that role. Carnor Jax could also maybe do some work here, if you can park him in the right place.

 

I've tried the Rage/Baffle build a couple of times now, and it's a lot of fun but I don't know that it's ultra competitive. Taking one solid hit eliminates almost all your tricks in one fell swoop, and if you're having to barrel roll to dodge arcs, then you're not Rage'ing. Still a bit early to make a final call on that though.

Edited by Red42

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I am generally with you on Rage/Baffles. It has specific uses, but overall I'm really liking PTL. It's gives you the ability to drop a big shot in the activation phase, but otherwise, it's just good action economy, especially if you have Mk2 Engines. The big block of greens, the Baffles to drop stress if necessary, and the rear arc gives you a ton of possible moves, even if you PTL every turn.

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Sensor Jammer is an interesting idea, Bio. You're forcing the attacker to make a choice between forcing damage through, but compromising their own defence against the Quickdraw double-tap. I like the idea of that, coupled with another ship in the list equipped with Juke, just to double down on that situation. Maybe a Ryad or Omega Leader in that role. Carnor Jax could also maybe do some work here, if you can park him in the right place.

 

I've tried the Rage/Baffle build a couple of times now, and it's a lot of fun but I don't know that it's ultra competitive. Taking one solid hit eliminates almost all your tricks in one fell swoop, and if you're having to barrel roll to dodge arcs, then you're not Rage'ing. Still a bit early to make a final call on that though.

 

I've been building lists that have Carnor Jax accompany Quickdraw into that range 1 dogfight. Not only can it help Quickdraw get damage through negating both focus and evade tokens, but also help her defensively when the opponent can't spend focus tokens on offense. It will take some testing getting them to fly/converge together, but I like the potential. 

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I've had decent success with Quickdraw as a +1 to a decimator. It forces your opponent to either go after Quickdraw and take more double taps while leaving a whole decimator untouched, or go after the decimator and leave her shields for the end game. Also when running two ships you have the points to give her a shield upgrade.

 

Not sure this was mentioned before, but you can use your own Ruthlessness to proc Quickdraw. Also with all the Biggs running around, Ruthlessness squads are becoming great fun again. I'm going to have to play around with it more.

Edited by DarkArk

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I've had decent success with Quickdraw as a +1 to a decimator. It forces your opponent to either go after Quickdraw and take more double taps while leaving a whole decimator untouched, or go after the decimator and leave her shields for the end game. Also when running two ships you have the points to give her a shield upgrade.

 

Not sure this was mentioned before, but you can use your own Ruthlessness to proc Quickdraw. Also with all the Biggs running around, Ruthlessness squads are becoming great fun again. I'm going to have to play around with it more.

Is shield upgrade worth investment by itself with any SF, or specifically here due to Quickdraw’s special ability?

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I've had decent success with Quickdraw as a +1 to a decimator. It forces your opponent to either go after Quickdraw and take more double taps while leaving a whole decimator untouched, or go after the decimator and leave her shields for the end game. Also when running two ships you have the points to give her a shield upgrade.

 

Not sure this was mentioned before, but you can use your own Ruthlessness to proc Quickdraw. Also with all the Biggs running around, Ruthlessness squads are becoming great fun again. I'm going to have to play around with it more.

Is shield upgrade worth investment by itself with any SF, or specifically here due to Quickdraw’s special ability?

 

Only because of QD.

Raiga likes this

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He who undermines TIE/sf pays the ultimate price. See my sig.

 

And oh, I have this super secret list with TIE/sf that can dish out 26 modified dice at R2 in a single round. Should I call it moreroncon?

Edited by Grivoire
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3 SFs with Youngster and Expose? Not quite enough I suppose but I'd be interested to hear it...

 

Ssh! It's supposed to be a secret and meta-defining! :P  Anyway good guess: 

 

Quickdraw+Adaptibility+FCS+Title

2 Zeta Specs + FCS +Title

Youngster+Expose

 

First things first, I won't have anyone lecture me on how bad expose is. I roll blanks on my greens all the time so I could care less.

Expose is bad because you only get to shoot once. not so with SFs. Hence SFs shall expose when the opportunity arises. Stick the TL to where it matters.

Youngster do whatever you think is best. He's the Biggs/Manaroo of this build.

Exposed, Quickdraw shoots at least 6 dice to different/same targets, and can dish up to 16 dice to multiple targets in a single round. He's Dengarer than Dengar. He's the Dengarest:ph34r:  

Edited by Grivoire

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Sensor Jammer is an interesting idea, Bio. You're forcing the attacker to make a choice between forcing damage through, but compromising their own defence against the Quickdraw double-tap. I like the idea of that, coupled with another ship in the list equipped with Juke, just to double down on that situation. Maybe a Ryad or Omega Leader in that role. Carnor Jax could also maybe do some work here, if you can park him in the right place.

 

I've tried the Rage/Baffle build a couple of times now, and it's a lot of fun but I don't know that it's ultra competitive. Taking one solid hit eliminates almost all your tricks in one fell swoop, and if you're having to barrel roll to dodge arcs, then you're not Rage'ing. Still a bit early to make a final call on that though.

 

I've been building lists that have Carnor Jax accompany Quickdraw into that range 1 dogfight. Not only can it help Quickdraw get damage through negating both focus and evade tokens, but also help her defensively when the opponent can't spend focus tokens on offense. It will take some testing getting them to fly/converge together, but I like the potential. 

 

 

What are you flying in addition to those two? A third ace ship? A Palp shuttle? I can't make up my mind what fits best so I'll have to try a few different things out and see which I like the most.

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