Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
clanofwolves

Are Slicer Tools really what we need to bring balance to the mat???

Recommended Posts

B3FB2B33-431E-41F6-89FD-2A89611627E4.jpg

Is this what we need to bring real ballance to the mat where it seems U-boats, Denga-Roo and Defenders slightly hold court over the other standard squads of Rebel-Regen, TLTs and Palp-Aces? I'm afraid that it hits some fun and barely seen ships like Tycho harder than the supposed target....or an I missing the point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's only situational (target must be stressed to begin with)

It's rng based

It removes the stress opening dial options said stressed ships wouldn't have otherwise.

It cuts action economy

ezra and farlander are the big losers but overall it's not tlt type defining when you consider it's drawbacks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slicers are a great tool for cheap generics to be able to mix it with the galaxy's finest. Ventress loves em; splatter the enemy with a stress, then they're playing with fire if you don't dial in a green next turn; if you don't you're actionless for no good reason. If you do, her low ps wingman takes a pop at laying free damage on an important ship, and losing an action is much less of a big deal on a 13pt  Z95. 4lom lists will also enjoy a bit of slicey goodness.

 

It can also mess with target priority, always a great new kind of complexity for the game, imo.

 

The smuggling compartment will make slicers a rebel tool too soon, I can see a generic yv1300 running it in a control list, so that everyone gets to feel the slicer love, not just ptl aces.

 

Finally, scout lists always generate a lot of stress these days, with overclocked nearly mandatory - as well as Dengaroo stacks of stress - so it's not just Soontir & co. who have something to lose here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is this what we need to bring real ballance to the mat where it seems U-boats, Denga-Roo and Defenders slightly hold court over the other standard squads of Rebel-Regen, TLTs and Palp-Aces? I'm afraid that it hits some fun and barely seen ships like Tycho harder than the supposed target....or an I missing the point?

 

You are missing the point.

 

It's not supposed to balance the Force meta, its a counter to Palp-Aces. Palp-Aces can regularly guarantee enough Evades that its hard to damage them when you do manage to keep them in Arc. Ships like Soontir Fel relies on getting stressed every turn to pull his Focus-Evade-Focus shenanigan. BMST allows you to use your Action to "shoot" at a 2 (TIE Adv Pro) or 3 (everyone else) hull Ace with an attack that can not be Evaded, or Palp'ed, does not rely on Arc or Range*, and ignores Shields. 

 

They either play very conservative with their Stress, and therefore reducing their Action/Token economy and reducing the effectiveness of  the Palp-Ace build, or they get popped by the Tools fairly quickly.

 

edit: * Range 1-2, which is reasonable expected engagement range for an arc dodger.

Edited by kris40k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BMST can be a threat. Your opponent might choose to not perform PTL, etc., for fear of the shield-skipping damage possible.  In a stress build you can load the target with stress, then have a low-PS ship move + roll the BMST die before the target can dump stress.

 

I've had success with it, both as a deterrent and an Activation Phase damage dealer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's only situational (target must be stressed to begin with)

It's rng based

It removes the stress opening dial options said stressed ships wouldn't have otherwise.

It cuts action economy

ezra and farlander are the big losers but overall it's not tlt type defining when you consider it's drawbacks

The intended targets (Soontir, Inquisitor, Dengaroo, etc) are always stressed

Your odds to deal a damage (face down card bypassing shield with that) are waaaaaay better than trying to shoot at the intended targets.

Enemy won't choose a white or red manoeuver with a 50% chance that they will still have their stress. So it doesn't open anything.

A z95 can either TL or focus, none of these will help you against a Soontir Fel.

Edited by Wildhorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It removes the stress opening dial options said stressed ships wouldn't have otherwise.

 

 

Please stop saying this.  It's not true.  The only time it might be true is on a double stressed ship that really doesn't want to be stressed.  For anyone this matters on, the stress is going to be pulled off before they move but after dials are set, so they can't rely on it at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I briefly ran a list including slicer tools and intelligence agent. The idea was that I could see if my opponent was assuming the stress would be gone, and if so, then I simply wouldn't slice.

However, I don't think that would happen enough to be worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's situational, but you can create the situation.  Tactician.  Tractor Beam onto a debris cloud.  Rigged Cargo Chute.  A stressed 4-LOM close to an enemy ship.  And yes, it's RNG, but you have the same odds as you do rolling for damage, and it's an Action that can't be opposed by dice or tokens.  No, it's not going to stop Soontir or Tycho from piling on the stress tokens, but it does give that a cost the player will have to think about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It removes the stress opening dial options said stressed ships wouldn't have otherwise.

 

 

Please stop saying this.  It's not true.  The only time it might be true is on a double stressed ship that really doesn't want to be stressed.  For anyone this matters on, the stress is going to be pulled off before they move but after dials are set, so they can't rely on it at all.

 

 

It does remove stress - that's called balance. 

Can you clarify this: "For anyone this matters on, the stress is going to be pulled off before they move but after dials are set, so they can't rely on it at all" with an example? 

 

One thing I have yet to see people discuss - and I think Zefirus is alluding to - is the role that PS plays in all of this. Obviously we want BMST on a low-PS ship, because frankly they can't do much else, and that means the stress would get pulled off before the movement - but that's a bet I won't place. Yes, there are those this won't matter/couldn't care less, etc.

 

For those high-PS ships with BMST, there's a pretty clear split if the stress removal will be a benefit for the target ship: Did they push or not? The folks that do push (Aces and now Wexley) won't like the damage but will get the dial opened up for next turn, not this turn. It's also worth noting that anyone that can't do key free actions (Whisper) will beg to get sliced. 

Edited by Rinzler in a Tie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think it's going to be a long term issue for the minor ships like Tycho.  Here are the steps for how it will play out:

 

1) People bring lots of BMST for PTL arc dodgers, like Soontir Fel.

2) Most people stop taking PTL arc dodgers, like Soontir Fel.

3) Most people stop taking BMST in most of their lists

 

There will always be people that fly PTL arc dodgers, like Soontir Fel.  There will always be people who fly BMST.  They won't always be as prevalent as they are today.  Just wait a few months and it will seem like a different meta.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

For those high-PS ships with BMST, there's a pretty clear split if the stress removal will be a benefit for the target ship: Did they push or not? The folks that do push (Aces and now Wexley) won't like the damage but will get the dial opened up for next turn, not this turn. It's also worth noting that anyone that can't do key free actions (Whisper) will beg to get sliced. 

 

 

(Whisper) will beg to get sliced. 

 

 

Whisper has 2 Hull and survives by having high defense dice due to cloak, tokens, etc., not by taking damage. BMST puts 1 face-down card directly on Hull.

 

Whisper has 2 Hull.

 

You might want to rethink the "begging to be sliced" remark.

Edited by kris40k

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

For those high-PS ships with BMST, there's a pretty clear split if the stress removal will be a benefit for the target ship: Did they push or not? The folks that do push (Aces and now Wexley) won't like the damage but will get the dial opened up for next turn, not this turn. It's also worth noting that anyone that can't do key free actions (Whisper) will beg to get sliced. 

 

 

(Whisper) will beg to get sliced. 

 

 

Whisper has 2 Hull and survives by having high defense dice due to cloak, tokens, etc., not by taking damage. BMST puts 1 face-down card directly on Hull.

 

Whisper has 2 Hull.

 

You might want to rethink the "begging to be sliced" remark.

 

 

I'll take a 1-hull Whisper over a Whisper who can't cloak, decloak, evade or focus because a Whisper who can't do those things dies ANYWAY. Assuming the BMST is used at a lower PS, Whisper now gets to move, action, shoot, and cloak. I'll take that over her being the sitting duck she is with Stress.

 

Either way she dies - I'd rather her die fully cloaked and focused/evaded. 

 

So thanks, but I won't retract :) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I have yet to see people discuss - and I think Zefirus is alluding to - is the role that PS plays in all of this. Obviously we want BMST on a low-PS ship, because frankly they can't do much else, and that means the stress would get pulled off before the movement - but that's a bet I won't place. Yes, there are those this won't matter/couldn't care less, etc.

 

Enhanced Scopes could come into play there, letting you act at 0 and likely guaranteeing you trigger BMST before anything happens.  Granted, it limits you to using BMST on one of the IGs or a G-1A though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last tournament I had Slicers on my PtL Manaroo. Didn't use them that much, like couple of times when I already had TL's up.

Did 1 like 1 damage to Fenn and 1 damage to Inquisitor in another game. 1 Damage that helped me to kill both in the end.

 

I could've used them more but TL+Focus Fenn/Teroch shooting like 5-6 dice at enemy is worth more than 50% chance of dealing a damage card.

 

Slicers are not the thing that you build your list around. It just gives you some tools to do damage if needed and opportunity arises (and if you roll well enough).

Wouldn't really take them if they were 2 points.

Edited by Hwarangdaem

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those high-PS ships with BMST, there's a pretty clear split if the stress removal will be a benefit for the target ship: Did they push or not? The folks that do push (Aces and now Wexley) won't like the damage but will get the dial opened up for next turn, not this turn. It's also worth noting that anyone that can't do key free actions (Whisper) will beg to get sliced.

 

(Whisper) will beg to get sliced.

 

Whisper has 2 Hull and survives by having high defense dice due to cloak, tokens, etc., not by taking damage. BMST puts 1 face-down card directly on Hull.

 

Whisper has 2 Hull.

 

You might want to rethink the "begging to be sliced" remark.

 

I'll take a 1-hull Whisper over a Whisper who can't cloak, decloak, evade or focus because a Whisper who can't do those things dies ANYWAY. Assuming the BMST is used at a lower PS, Whisper now gets to move, action, shoot, and cloak. I'll take that over her being the sitting duck she is with Stress.

 

Either way she dies - I'd rather her die fully cloaked and focused/evaded. 

 

So thanks, but I won't retract :)

But the thing you forget is because all those things are SO bad you will probably have taken a green manoeuvre to remove the stress anyway. You are not going to rely on a 50/50 chance of it being removed by the Slicer. So the net loss by the Slicing side is nothing, they have done 1 damage and removed a stress which would have been removed anyway as soon as you activated the Phantom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...