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Conjurer Channeling Question

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Channeling states:

You may spend 1 movement point during your turn to move an image token 1 space.

 

 

I read it as, during your turn, you can use your movement points to move an image token. It does not explicitly state a limited number of uses, just that 1 movement point translates to 1 image movement during your turn.

 

Am I reading this correctly? Can you essentially use more than one movement point during your turn, repeatedly using this ability?

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The way I read it, since there is no exhaustion, after using the ability, if it's still "during your turn", you can do it again by paying the cost (1MP).

EDIT: I've seen this same question pop up in a number of locations over the last few weeks. Has the conjurer suddenly become more popular? Are there a bunch of "warrior only" players who are seeing steelcaster/conjurer as something amazing?

Edited by Zaltyre

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The way I read it, since there is no exhaustion, after using the ability, if it's still "during your turn", you can do it again by paying the cost (1MP).

EDIT: I've seen this same question pop up in a number of locations over the last few weeks. Has the conjurer suddenly become more popular? Are there a bunch of "warrior only" players who are seeing steelcaster/conjurer as something amazing?

Mages of all classes unite! Revolt against the Runemaster supremacists! 

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If I had to guess, I'd say these questions come from people who only recently started playing Descent with RtL and bought SoN as their first expansion to get more classes, monsters, heroes, because it has the best content/dollar ratio if you consider stronger classes as better content.

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I have feeling that Descent has a second birth because of Road to Legend - loads of new players. And conjurer is awesome class too, not that damaging as runemaster, but fun and powerfull 

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One likely reason for the surge in Conjurer popularity is also that its a more effective choice vs. the automated AI in RtL than any other mage due to their ability to create tons of extra 'bodies' for very little cost.

 

The AI is very foolish compared to a real Overlord, and very easy to goad into attacking a mirror image (many activations simply target the 'closest hero'.) The heroes also get to choose the target in case of multiple options.

 

The conjurer can never suffer more than 1 heart and 1 stamina damage from losing the image, so the images make a fantastic 'tank' for the party - often better than a traditional tank.

 

I've experienced an RtL game where what would have been a catastrophically damaging activation from a pair of Etitns that rolled well (12 damage dealt in total) was cut down to a measly 2 hearts and 2 stamina. Even a superbly armored hero would be hard pressed to achieve those kinds of results. Not to mention the images are great at soaking up Knockback/Lash/Hunt/etc. surges that screw with hero positioning - something even the finest defense can't do.

Edited by Charmy

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That's true, I didn't think of the pseudo-hero to cost ratio. In normal play I value the images for remote attacking (place them to see around corners, or behind groups of monsters) or for movement(helping you or hindering others). Their benefit in RtL is probably more defensive, as you say.

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Perhaps for RtL they should separate actual heroes from tokens and familiars. Maybe to add rule like "attack tokens and familiars only if actual hero cannot be targeted"

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I think they balanced it out well enough.  The monsters get more boosts than they would from an overlord playing cards (like "all minions get +2 speed" or "all x monster get +1 surge this turn").

 

Also, the conjurer can put more familiars out there, but unlike most other "summoners", he also suffers damage when they are defeated AND still has to pay a cost to replace them if there is more than one left on the board.  After having taken 1 fatigue for each image defeated, having to use more fatigue to summon more images, and having to rest more, becomes a handicap, unless you don't mind taking your time and facing major perils.

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I think they balanced it out well enough.  The monsters get more boosts than they would from an overlord playing cards (like "all minions get +2 speed" or "all x monster get +1 surge this turn").

 

Also, the conjurer can put more familiars out there, but unlike most other "summoners", he also suffers damage when they are defeated AND still has to pay a cost to replace them if there is more than one left on the board.  After having taken 1 fatigue for each image defeated, having to use more fatigue to summon more images, and having to rest more, becomes a handicap, unless you don't mind taking your time and facing major perils.

 

Still I imagine this to work really well. Keep in mind you can always discard your images und resummon them, so you can basically place 2 images in good positions each turn for one fatigue. You can also spend your surges to recover fatigue, making this strategy really efficient.

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I have no doubt that it is probably effective, but it is counter balanced by a cost. You can only recover 1 stamina per attack so if a group of monsters attacks and destroys 4 images, the Conjurer takes 4 damage and 4 fatigue, then must either rest, or conjure a maximum of 2 images on his next turn (depending on his stamina, whether he took 2 attacks, 1 attack or none; if he rolled enough surges to use to recover fatigue, etc... of course).

 

The monster group, wastes an entire activation dealing with the images and their damage is blunted to a max of 4, allowing the heroes to reduce their numbers, but if the dice do not cooperate, and there's a second group on the map, then the conjurer is blunted for a few rounds.

 

ETA: Also, maybe Zaltyre can confirm if I'm right or not, but a Barghest howl could probably wipe out the whole slew of images in one action. Fail attribute test, take 1 fatigue, can't take a fatigue, take one damage; Image token defeated, Conjurer takes 1 damage and 1 fatigue, apply to all images within the howl.

Edited by Alarmed

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Also, maybe Zaltyre can confirm if I'm right or not, but a Barghest howl could probably wipe out the whole slew of images in one action. Fail attribute test, take 1 fatigue, can't take a fatigue, take one damage; Image token defeated, Conjurer takes 1 damage and 1 fatigue, apply to all images within the howl.

 

Yes- the images do have attributes (matching those of the conjurer's hero sheet) so howl isn't an auto-fail for them, but if they fail, they'll be destroyed and the conjurer will face the requisite penalty.

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If a image token attack by Channeling adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, and my Conjurer is not adjacent to Shadow Dragon,

Need I spend surge to hit ?

Edited by edcy

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I'd say yes. The images basically act as a copy of the conjurer for all attacks. The same would be true if the geomancer attacks using a skill to attack from the position of a stone. If the stone is adjacent to the dragon, you have to spend a surge. At least this would be my interpretation.

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The hero performs the attack, not the image (or stone in similar skills for the Geomancer), if the hero is not adjacent, which is what 'Shadow' requires, then the surge is not needed.

If the token itself performed the attack (dnno if it can, but I know a stone for example can), then the surge would be needed.

 

So in this case, I'd say: No, no surge needed.

 

 

Edit:

To illustrate with the Geomancer:

Terracall attack -> needs surge

Cataclysm attack -> doesn't need surge

Edited by Atom4geVampire

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Quote from the BGG FFG Sez Thread:

 

Is a summoned stone affected by Shadow if adjacent to a Shadow Dragon?

Quote:
Since a Summoned Stone is treated as an obstacle and not a hero or monster figure, no abilities applying to heroes or monsters may be used. Thus, it wouldn't be affected by Shadow. However, any ability that allows you to attack through a Summoned Stone, if it's adjacent to a Shadow Dragon, is subject to the Shadow ability (since the hero is the one performing the attack).
The Reanimate is treated as a hero figure, so it would be subject to Shadow.

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games"


Later in the thread corrected:

Quote:
The positioning of the familiar (when being attacked through) is irrelevant to the Shadow ability, unless the familiar itself (if treated as a hero) is the one performing the attack. However, if the Geomancer is the one performing the attack while he himself is adjacent to the shadow dragon, the attack is subject to Shadow, no matter its origin point.
Molten Fury, Earthen Anguish, and Cataclysm all follow this pattern. The hero is the one performing the attack (either measuring from or targeting the space containing the Summoned Stone). 

Thanks,
Justin Kemppainen
Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games
jkemppainen@fantasyflightgames.com
 

I'd say the same ruling applies to Conjurer attacking through his images. So basically the conjurer himself needs to be adjacent for Shadow to affect him, at which point any attack the Conjurer makes is subject to shadow even if attacking through an image that isn't adjacent to a dragon.

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Atom, fun fact- the image never activates, and could only perform an attack if some ability let it (something similar to "choose a hero, that hero performs an attack." However, the image has no attack pool (not even a blue) so unless an ability also adds dice, it would roll nothing at all. Weird, right?

Figured this out when I asked if an image (which gets valor) can spend them for "No Mercy". (Answer was yes but it won't roll any dice).

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What would "rolling no dice" mean? Automatic miss, or never miss but zero damage base? Because with all the tools and tricks an OL can use, maybe this could have some potential.

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It's a bit of an oddity, because the image has no weapon (so it's hard to say clearly whether the attack were melee or ranged). Clearly, since there is no reach and no range rolled, unless the target were aejacent, a blank result would miss by range. If the target were adjacent, there would be some question as to whether it were.a no.damage hit (no range required for melee) or a mi$s by range (range of 1, none rolled). Unless you're forcing it with a dark charm or the like (and yoi'd almost always be better off targeting another hero) it's an incredibly rare occurrence.

My opinion based on the wording of the rules response was that images attacking wasn't really intended, but was possible technically because of a what they were. The reason the question was asked was NOT to have the attack do anything- it was to find a good way to discard valor from an image without discarding the image (since valor is limited by the supply).

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