MOAR SHRIMPS!!

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

-------------------------------------------

400/400 points

4x MC30T | SFO - OE - APT
3x GR75 Transport | Comms Net
1x GR75 Transport | <Admiral>

Opening Salvo
Hyperspace Assault
Intel Sweep (maybe Minefields with Dodonna)

-------------------------------------------

The idea here is to present really terrible options to as many builds as I can.  As first player, I can currently pretty consistently get my 2x MC30s into position without taking much fire, so I expect similar performance with 4 of them

 

The challenge is building for objectives as second player. 

Been working on my Opening Salvo game with MC30s recently, and that combo is strong.  Hyperspace Assault is a non-starter where MC30's are involved.  And 4 MC30's with near-guaranteed activation advantage can completely deny access to a large swath of space in Intel Sweep.

 

----------

So.  Do I use...

* Mon Mothma to counter the squadrons that are going to be this list's biggest weakness?
* Rieekan to guarantee those shitloads of blacks get their shots every time?
* Dodonna to double down on the fearsomeness of the APTs?

* Madine for ridiculous positioning shenanigans?

I would do a bit of reshuffling with the extra 10 points if I went with Dodonna.

[Norell 1,138]

You don't have any more points and you have no more admirals
 

But talking seriously, I would suggest Dodonna or Madine. Dodonna because the shrimp can cripple a big ship with some luckily drawn critical cards and Madine because with shrimps speed and maneuverability is everything. It's up to you.

But be aware as this build is extremely vulnerable to bombers. Even a  group of 2-3 bombers without Rhymer can be devastating against an MC30...

Edited October 1, 2016 by Norell

[Caldias 2,202]

Love it.

 

He actually saved 30 points for the commander, if you tally it all up.

 

Madine is cool, but in my experience, never felt worth it for me.  I'd use his ability once or twice, typically, or sometimes not at all.

 

Rieekan would be pretty solid.  

 

I really like Mothma due to your lack of squadrons, and that would solve your bomber problem, as you already know Rhymer got nothing on Mothma (I know he can still attack at close range, but whatever.  REROLL THEM BCC HIT/CRITS!).  I know you're already a fan, but in order to table the carriers, you think sneaking an H9 in or two might be worth it?  I might even consider dropping a flotilla for some acc.

 

I know he isn't in your list, but have you considered Cracken?  I know sometimes you have to go to Speed 2 and then lose his ability, but where he really shines for MC30s is attack denial when you are speed 3/4ing away.  One red dice becomes no red dice, and he also guarantees that Gozantis and other one die arcs don't get shots.  I would at least give him a try,

Edited October 1, 2016 by Caldias

[Caldias 2,202]

You also just made me realize another flotilla is actually a cheaper deployment than any 2 squadrons the rebels can have.

[Ginkapo 8,527]

What are the gr75s for if not anti squad flak ships.

Take Cracken or switch some transports into xwings. Trust the build.

[Parkdaddy 626]

I like the Dodonna suggestion, and that would also let you throw in the H9s as Calidas suggested and/or some Titles. Bright Hope on your flagship would be especially beneficial to keep your opponent from sending fast bombers after it. Otherwise it literally only takes 2 (very) lucky heavy bomber strikes to take it out.

[Caldias 2,202]

After thinking some more, I think Mothma or Cracken would be the two I'd roll with.   This may be a rare instance where Mothma is better than Cracken, because you need the squadron defense for keeping the shrimps alive long enough for your transports to flak the crap out of some fighters.  

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

What are the gr75s for if not anti squad flak ships.

Take Cracken or switch some transports into xwings. Trust the build.

  

After thinking some more, I think Mothma or Cracken would be the two I'd roll with.   This may be a rare instance where Mothma is better than Cracken, because you need the squadron defense for keeping the shrimps alive long enough for your transports to flak the crap out of some fighters.

This more than anything is why I'm leaning toward MM or Rieekan. I usually prefer to go for the more aggro option, especially with MC30 builds, but in this case I think if I want the flotillas to stay alive long enough to mow down squadrons they'll need something to keep them there.

[Caldias 2,202]

I like it, Ard.  You inspired me to revisit Mothma and try no squadrons for funzies.  AND to buy a 4th MC30.  

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

Yeah... Think I might do the same...

[Truthiness 5,428]

Mon Mothma is definitely superior to Cracken in this case. MC30s are her specialty. Your biggest weakness is squadrons, which Mon Mothma can help with. Cracken will do nothing for that. I love the idea of going full bore ships, using the GR-75s as your main source of anti-squadron. It's just crazy enough that it might work.

[Vergilius 2,117]

Mothma.  There's just too much she does against about every build that this list might face.  I like the extreme number of activations that the flotillas give you.  The placement is still 8, and so it matches most of the 8 placement builds we seem to see out there, and the activations are just going to be absolutely brutal.  I'd still rather have first player as often as possible with MC30s, which means a bid is useful.

[Maturin 1,522]

I don't know that you need 8 activations ... Most lists i see don't go past 6? It may be worth dropping a transport for some upgrades. One H9 equipped shrimp would be a great flotilla hunter (lots of those around these days), bright hope and quantum storm are great, and use the rest for a bid...heck, convert a transport or two to the armed version for Opening Salvo shenanigans, and to see your opponents' mouth drop.

Of the admirals MM would be best to counter the heavy squadrons out there...

This list looks fun. Good thing I've just bought my 4th shrimp!

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

I don't know that you need 8 activations ... Most lists i see don't go past 6?

My thinking there is, the larger the activation differential, the more MC30's I can slide past activated threats, and the more traps I can force. I disagree with Clon's assessment that you need no more than two activation advantage: I think the potential for abuse keeps scaling up, if and only if you are maintaining credible threats with those increased activations.

I'm trying to figure out how to do that.

[NairoD 172]

I don't know that you need 8 activations ... Most lists i see don't go past 6?

My thinking there is, the larger the activation differential, the more MC30's I can slide past activated threats, and the more traps I can force. I disagree with Clon's assessment that you need no more than two activation advantage: I think the potential for abuse keeps scaling up, if and only if you are maintaining credible threats with those increased activations.

I'm trying to figure out how to do that.

I agree with you. My Raider list also have 8 activations. Inflotilla era you need evry possible activation to pass any threat and be able to strike before it.

I would be more than happy to fight with this list

[chriscook 86]

So  did you try this list yet?

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

Sort of. I was too chicken to go off my titles cold turkey, so I ducked down to:

MM Shrimps ++ (400/400)

======================

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 18)

+ Skilled First Officer (1)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Admonition (8)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 18)

+ Skilled First Officer (1)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ Foresight (8)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 18)

+ Skilled First Officer (1)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

+ H9 Turbolasers (8)

MC30c Frigate: MC30c Torpedo Frigate (63 + 10)

+ Skilled First Officer (1)

+ Ordnance Experts (4)

+ Assault Proton Torpedoes (5)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 30)

+ Mon Mothma (30)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18)

Objectives Assault: Opening Salvo (0)

Objectives Defense: Hyperspace assault (0)

Objectives Navigation: Intel Sweep (0)

I completely wrecked a guy who is pretty dominant around here, with a Gallant Haven/Yavaris Rieekan Aces +3 flotillas list. I won't deny I had a bit of luck (got to go first with a bid of 400), but even so, his entire fleet exploded during turn 3. Foresight really should have died but got out on a lucky blank die, to be the only thing I even came close to losing, in exchange for a turn 3 tabling.

This is a LOT of black dice flying around. If you can't avoid it, it's going to really ruin your day, and it's super difficult to tackle four MC30's bearing down on you. I used the titles as the tip of the spear, followed closely by the untitled to catch anything that tried to slip past the titles.

I see this fleet having a hard time against the bigger ships with gunnery teams: the Libs of Doom, and probably certain ISD2's, that kind of thing. But against what's dominating my meta right now, it whoops ass.

[Ginkapo 8,527]

Its similar to my ackbar build. Big front arc ships arent a problem until they start covering each other. I have only ever seen PT actually do that, and it was his second time against the list.

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

Its similar to my ackbar build. Big front arc ships arent a problem until they start covering each other. I have only ever seen PT actually do that, and it was his second time against the list.

Yeah, except your Ackbar build is dumb and I hate it STRICTLY BECAUSE you use Sensor Teams.

[Ginkapo 8,527]

Its similar to my ackbar build. Big front arc ships arent a problem until they start covering each other. I have only ever seen PT actually do that, and it was his second time against the list.

Yeah, except your Ackbar build is dumb and I hate it STRICTLY BECAUSE you use Sensor Teams.

Hehe.

I am running sensor teams on a dual vic I konstantine build atm. Not so sure they are perfect, but I cant figure a better combo for around the 10pt mark.

[Valca 397]

What did you do against Yavaris's squadrons?  Blow past them after taking a round of shooting?  Did the transports come in handy?

[Ardaedhel 10,807]

Nah, against a well-flown Gallant Haven/Jan combo pretty much all ship-based anti-squadron is useless.  In this game they were blockers and delays and that was it.

And yeah, I just tanked the squadrons.  They hurt, no doubt--as I alluded to, Foresight would've died if my opponent's Tycho weren't hitting the spice pretty hard--but it takes a bit of time for even double-tapping Luke/H6/H6 to topple an evading MC30.  And he didn't have the time.  With the activation delays and charging in and back out at speed 4, I was able to prevent most of Yav's double-taps.

[Undeadguy 5,739]

Caldias has a list similar to your second one you posted and it wrecked me twice. Tabled me on game, and won by over 100 points for MoV. By the time I had almost killed one, it was out of arc and flying away, and the next one was already screaming in. Great list and very hard to play against. I'm interested in seeing a mirror match and 8 of them flying around.

[Caldias 2,202]

Well, I did draw inspiration from his first list when building mine.  Undeadguy's lists are pretty nasty, double accruacies make MC30s very sad.

[chriscook 86]

What is this list witg no squads doing vs ISD Demo Rymer?  Can u get in and get out without losing more than 1 ship?