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 Because development costs money.  That's all.  

You just can't expect a company to give you something (even digitally) for nothing.

Costs of development is covered by increase in profit from sells of real-life boxes with descent expansions. That's why app was made free and big campaign monetisation method was changed.

So it's perfectly OK to give content for "free" if you know how you will monetize your generosity

 

Minus the cost of printing, miniatures, packing, shipping, storing, and distributing the games. That stuff still costs money, leaving a small portion left to subsidize app development. 

 

Lots of people bought the core set because of the app, but that probably wasn't enough to cover the development cost. Not to mention that they're not going to sell a box game for every release on the app. People already have it. They need to cover the cost of developing new digital content (all the costs or writing, illustrating, editing, and graphic design, plus the cost of coding and QA) by selling it. There's no way it could be completely free.

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Seems ludicrous to expect a company to continue to pour resources into developing an app and then offer it for free. They offered the initial base for free so players could see if they like it. But further enhancements would obviously not be free. I thought it was very generous for FF to offer the base app for free. The net effect of more people buying the game and expansions is irrelevant; FFG invested resources into the app and therefore they charge for app addons. It's quite simple. And the opinion of "I'm not paying for it because digital should be free", while not grounded in reality, is your right to choose. I'm certain if you hold that opinion that you also never purchase PC or console games as well. Because those are also digital content. And whether those purchases accompany physical board games is also irrelevant: you paid for digital content.

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Because development costs money.  That's all.  

You just can't expect a company to give you something (even digitally) for nothing.

Costs of development is covered by increase in profit from sells of real-life boxes with descent expansions. That's why app was made free and big campaign monetisation method was changed.

So it's perfectly OK to give content for "free" if you know how you will monetize your generosity

 

Let's assume that the sale of additional core boxes, H&M packs, and expansions covered the development of the current app content.  If they continue to release new app content that uses the old physical assets... where will the development costs be covered.  You already bought the boxes (or not).  You aren't going to rebuy the coreset in order to fund further campaigns that utilize the coreset.  So either they release another expansion (with its own campaign) and include app content as part of THAT cost, or they charge for future app content.  This isn't rocket science.  People are working to make this stuff, they have to be paid in some way.  And again, they already did this in PHYSICAL form with the Heirs of Blood campaign... which everyone raves about and paid money for.

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Because development costs money.  That's all.  

You just can't expect a company to give you something (even digitally) for nothing.

Costs of development is covered by increase in profit from sells of real-life boxes with descent expansions. That's why app was made free and big campaign monetisation method was changed.

So it's perfectly OK to give content for "free" if you know how you will monetize your generosity

 

 

Nothing was changed. FFG just made the first campaign free, so you can actually play a full coop campaign without spending additional money with just the core box. Coop stopped being an expansion this way.

 

However there is no reason why FFG shouldn't charge for additional content (just as they charge you, if you want another 1vsmany campaign).

 

Yet there are quite a few differences between physical components and digital components, that make the whole pricing thing a crucial point. From the whole problem of not only being tied to specific services, but also being unable to continue a campaign on an Ipad, when it was started on an android (so this can easily get unreachable if for instance your device breaks), to the fact nothing has to be physically produced, shipped and sold by someone, who also wants a margin ending with the fact that house-rules and balance changes are hard to incorporate by oneself (no typical modability of boardgames), so the quality of the product is even more important for your ability to enjoy it.

 

Personally I've found RtL being much too easy (even on "hard") so far, I never lost a quest and only died 2 times so far in the whole campaign. While in 1vsmany mode, I can just give the other party more resources to balance it out without taking out or slowing down the "character-development" part of the game, my only option in RtL is to not level skills and not buy items to make the game harder, which in return destroys the whole fun of character progression. So for me personally, I wouldn't pay 20$ for a new RtL campaign, but I would for a standard campaign.  ~10$ seems very fair for RtL campaigns, yet I hope the next one will be harder. Imo the Delve mode will restrict character development in comparison, so I guess if it's not below the price of a full campaign, it seems overpriced in comparison (except if it introduces something else that will enhance this mode). For instance if this is more on par with PoD Coops (more puzzle elements, you don't always need to kill all monsters, more "setpieces" and variety) I think even 10$ is okay, but I guess a higher price will make me more cautious of this purchase, while I maybe buy this instantly if it's only ~5$, just for a quick solo-session.

Edited by DAMaz

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Personally I've found RtL being much too easy (even on "hard") so far, I never lost a quest and only died 2 times so far in the whole campaign.

I have read many of your posts since you joined this forum, and for the most part, I have found what you have posted to have added value to the conversation, even if I didn't agree with the points you were making.

 

As for the above quote, I find this very difficult to believe, especially if you are actually playing by all of the correct rules.  My group and I have been gaming together for more than 50 years.  We all have very strong gaming, math, strategic thinking, tactical decision making backgrounds, etc.

 

Despite this, I can state that we have most definitely lost multiple quests, we have had to willingly surrender quests to avoid a loss, etc.  We have played more than 2 dozen RTL Kindred Fire campaigns, with 2, 3, and 4 heroes in the mix.

 

I can state without a doubt that the game and many of its quests can be very difficult to win with 2 heroes.

 

In fact, for the most part, we have found the side quests to often be far more difficult than the main story quests.

 

I should point out several things.  First, I have everything that has been released for D2e to date, so there is obviously a huge diversity to what the app can choose to play.  In addition, we do not cherry pick our hero/class combinations.  We always deal out three random heroes to each player, with each selecting 1 of the 3.  Most often, we allow each of the players to look at each group of 3 heroes dealt, so that we can determine the best mix among the entire group, but sometimes we play blind, forcing each player to pick their hero in secret.  This randomness and chaos if you will, adds additional complexity to the game, and forces us to come up with good strategies for heroes we may never have played before.

 

Again, I am not trying to doubt you, but I struggle to believe that you have never lost a quest, and have only had 2 heroes ever die.  It makes me think that perhaps you are not utilizing the rules in the correct manner.

 

I would be most interested if you could take the time to elaborate how you pick your heroes and their classes, the number of heroes you typically play, the number of Kindred Fire campaigns you have run, the number of expansions you have, etc.

Edited by any2cards

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Personally I've found RtL being much too easy (even on "hard") so far, I never lost a quest and only died 2 times so far in the whole campaign.

I have read many of your posts since you joined this forum, and for the most part, I have found what you have posted to have added value to the conversation, even if I didn't agree with the points you were making.

 

As for the above quote, I find this very difficult to believe, especially if you are actually playing by all of the correct rules.  My group and I have been gaming together for more than 50 years.  We all have very strong gaming, math, strategic thinking, tactical decision making backgrounds, etc.

 

Despite this, I can state that we have most definitely lost multiple quests, we have had to willingly surrender quests to avoid a loss, etc.  We have played more than 2 dozen RTL Kindred Fire campaigns, with 2, 3, and 4 heroes in the mix.

 

I can state without a doubt that the game and many of its quests can be very difficult to win with 2 heroes.

 

In fact, for the most part, we have found the side quests to often be far more difficult than the main story quests.

 

I should point out several things.  First, I have everything that has been released for D2e to date, so there is obviously a huge diversity to what the app can choose to play.  In addition, we do not cherry pick our hero/class combinations.  We always deal out three random heroes to each player, with each selecting 1 of the 3.  Most often, we allow each of the players to look at each group of 3 heroes dealt, so that we can determine the best mix among the entire group, but sometimes we play blind, forcing each player to pick their hero in secret.  This randomness and chaos if you will, adds additional complexity to the game, and forces us to come up with good strategies for heroes we may never have played before.

 

Again, I am not trying to doubt you, but I struggle to believe that you have never lost a quest, and have only had 2 heroes ever die.  It makes me think that perhaps you are not utilizing the rules in the correct manner.

 

I would be most interested if you could take the time to elaborate how you pick your heroes and their classes, the number of heroes you typically play, the number of Kindred Fire campaigns you have run, the number of expansions you have, etc.

 

 

Fair enough. (I own SoN, LoR, MoR, LotW, Treaty of Champions and Crusade of the Forgotten)

Since the app suggests you might want to pick heroes with synergy, I did this. Randomly choosing heroes and classes is however a very good idea to up the difficulty without limiting character development, I like it and maybe try it the next time I start an RtL campaign/delve.

 

So far I've played the king of all goblins campaign (2 sidequests, but not the final quest yet) solo, with Reinhart as Beastmaster, Andira Runehand as Apothecary, Jain as Wildlander and Ravella as Hexer.

 

and Kindred of Fire (2 story quests and 3 side-quests)  with Reinhart as Beastmaster, Andira as Bard, Grey Ker as Bounty Hunter and Astarra as Geomancer. Since the first side-quest where 2 heroes died (it was an 8dmg firebreath of the shadow dragon that had only 2HP left), no one got even near dying in the subsequent games. We even wasted a week going into the city and looking at the items without buying, turned off the app and when we restarted we were out of the city and one week has passed, yet we weren't really feeling underpowered in the next quest.

 

I've got to admit these are very strong parties especially for RtL, where dmg output and HP imo are the most important values, but I was hoping that on hard I don't have to hold back and still have a close game like in 1vsmany mode with adversaries that understand the game. We even played with smart AI decisions, yet the order of activation often screwed the AI, activating weakened monstergroups at suboptimal positions, which left us enough time to decimate the healthy ones, before they were activating. Also, as you can see, I haven't even finished the campaigns yet, that's why I tried to stress that my expiriences don't cover the whole content by adding "so far" to my judgements.

Edited by DAMaz

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Personally I've found RtL being much too easy (even on "hard") so far, I never lost a quest and only died 2 times so far in the whole campaign.

I have read many of your posts since you joined this forum, and for the most part, I have found what you have posted to have added value to the conversation, even if I didn't agree with the points you were making.

 

As for the above quote, I find this very difficult to believe, especially if you are actually playing by all of the correct rules.  My group and I have been gaming together for more than 50 years.  We all have very strong gaming, math, strategic thinking, tactical decision making backgrounds, etc.

 

Despite this, I can state that we have most definitely lost multiple quests, we have had to willingly surrender quests to avoid a loss, etc.  We have played more than 2 dozen RTL Kindred Fire campaigns, with 2, 3, and 4 heroes in the mix.

 

I can state without a doubt that the game and many of its quests can be very difficult to win with 2 heroes.

 

In fact, for the most part, we have found the side quests to often be far more difficult than the main story quests.

 

I should point out several things.  First, I have everything that has been released for D2e to date, so there is obviously a huge diversity to what the app can choose to play.  In addition, we do not cherry pick our hero/class combinations.  We always deal out three random heroes to each player, with each selecting 1 of the 3.  Most often, we allow each of the players to look at each group of 3 heroes dealt, so that we can determine the best mix among the entire group, but sometimes we play blind, forcing each player to pick their hero in secret.  This randomness and chaos if you will, adds additional complexity to the game, and forces us to come up with good strategies for heroes we may never have played before.

 

Again, I am not trying to doubt you, but I struggle to believe that you have never lost a quest, and have only had 2 heroes ever die.  It makes me think that perhaps you are not utilizing the rules in the correct manner.

 

I would be most interested if you could take the time to elaborate how you pick your heroes and their classes, the number of heroes you typically play, the number of Kindred Fire campaigns you have run, the number of expansions you have, etc.

 

 

Fair enough. (I own SoN, LoR, MoR, LotW, Treaty of Champions and Crusade of the Forgotten)

Since the app suggests you might want to pick heroes with synergy, I did this. Randomly choosing heroes and classes is however a very good idea to up the difficulty without limiting character development, I like it and maybe try it the next time I start an RtL campaign/delve.

 

So far I've played the king of all goblins campaign (2 sidequests, but not the final quest yet) solo, with Reinhart as Beastmaster, Andira Runehand as Apothecary, Jain as Wildlander and Ravella as Hexer.

 

and Kindred of Fire (2 story quests and 3 side-quests)  with Reinhart as Beastmaster, Andira as Bard, Grey Ker as Bounty Hunter and Astarra as Geomancer. Since the first side-quest where 2 heroes died (it was an 8dmg firebreath of the shadow dragon that had only 2HP left), no one got even near dying in the subsequent games. We even wasted a week going into the city and looking at the items without buying, turned off the app and when we restarted we were out of the city and one week has passed, yet we weren't really feeling underpowered in the next quest.

 

I've got to admit these are very strong parties especially for RtL, where dmg output and HP imo are the most important values, but I was hoping that on hard I don't have to hold back and still have a close game like in 1vsmany mode with adversaries that understand the game. We even played with smart AI decisions, yet the order of activation often screwed the AI, activating weakened monstergroups at suboptimal positions, which left us enough time to decimate the healthy ones, before they were activating. Also, as you can see, I haven't even finished the campaigns yet, that's why I tried to stress that my expiriences don't cover the whole content by adding "so far" to my judgements.

 

 

Ok.  Fair enough.  You haven't gone very far, and quite frankly, you are fortunately (or unfortunately  :P) missing some expansions that include some very difficult monsters.  In one of our quests, I faced a combination of Plague Worms, Iron Bound, and Dark Priests essentially all at once.

 

Throw in a Golem or 2, and you have multiple monsters that ignore all pierce, have the ability of healing themselves, and generate special conditions such as the Dark Priests which use Dark Prayer on you endlessly ... forcing you to continue to test Willpower until you pass.

 

We have had heroes with a Willpower of 2, and full health (8hp), that have failed the test until they burned through all of their fatigue, and then all of their health, and subsequently were knocked down.  All on a single activation.

 

Some of these monsters can be incredibly brutal.  I plan on following your posts as you proceed in your campaigns to see how you continue to do.

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I understand each point of view.

However, i don't want to encourage a business model that rely on the production of digital content. I will continue to support Descent by buying miniatures, cards, and so on. Just because that's what i want as a costumer.
 

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...I will continue to support Descent by buying miniatures, cards, and so on. Just because that's what i want as a costumer.

 

 

As did everyone that got excited by the app. Sales increased by a multiple of 3 (so says FFG themselves). Think about that. They released a digital app, for free, and sales of D2E physical products increased by x3. A digital freebie product just provided them a HUGE boost in sales of physical products. You want this app to exist, whether you like the app itself or not. It gives them a reason to continue making physical products for us to go broke on, errr, I mean buy.

Edited by cdj0902

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I understand each point of view.

However, i don't want to encourage a business model that rely on the production of digital content. I will continue to support Descent by buying miniatures, cards, and so on. Just because that's what i want as a costumer.

 

I echo cdj's comment above, but I must also add that it gives you MORE ways to use the physical content you already purchased.  It's fine if you just want to play the campaigns and expansions over, and over, and over, and over.  The app won't stop you from doing that.  But if you ever get tired of playing the same stories, then the app will give you... more...  The only way this could possibly be BAD is if they completely stop producing physical expansions for the sake of solely producing the app.  I find that unlikely.

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Just adding my $.02... I thought Kindred Fire was a great campaign with lots of quests and it was super cool that FFG gave it away for free. I don't know if I'm just a lame player or some people in this thread are uber, but we found the campaign fun and challenging on normal. We played a total of 13 quests and won 8. After completing the final quest, my wife turned to me and said "I'd play that again". So $5 for more fun seems like a deal to me. Heck it costs five times that for us to go out to the movies. Just saying...

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I would like to see some cross platform buying. If I am playing outside, I am using android tablet, but at home I am using my notebook with steam, because it has much larger monitor. The save sharing would be perfect too.

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Seems ludicrous to expect a company to continue to pour resources into developing an app and then offer it for free. They offered the initial base for free so players could see if they like it. But further enhancements would obviously not be free. I thought it was very generous for FF to offer the base app for free. The net effect of more people buying the game and expansions is irrelevant; FFG invested resources into the app and therefore they charge for app addons. It's quite simple. And the opinion of "I'm not paying for it because digital should be free", while not grounded in reality, is your right to choose. I'm certain if you hold that opinion that you also never purchase PC or console games as well. Because those are also digital content. And whether those purchases accompany physical board games is also irrelevant: you paid for digital content.

Exactly. I'm glad they decided to monetize additional content in the game. It is an added incentive for FFG to continue supporting the app. I will always be happy to fork over a few bucks for several hours of entertainment, a quantity that also increases with each tiled expansion that you own or purchase, especially considering the rip off prices of just going to see a movie these days. 

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guys, If I purchase Delve on mobile phone, will it be also opened on my tablet or do I have to purchase it again (both are using same google account)?

Edited by Zaily

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does it record what you won and lost? is there a reminder any where?

It might in the log. You'd have to scroll to the end of every week.

I record all my games on BGG, so i basically have a mini diary of all my plays.

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guys, If I purchase Delve on mobile phone, will it be also opened on my tablet or do I have to purchase it again (both are using same google account)?

It worked for me. I purchased Delve on my tablet and now it is also avalaible on my smartphone (both android, same google account) =)

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