Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Do I need a Username

The Curious case of the X-wing

Recommended Posts

In regards to the Awing actions, i would have been fine w/o the TL if they insist on keeping the 4 action limit. Its a 2die ship and if they EVER take missiles they take prockets, so Tlock isnt that important.

Im also surprised nothing lacks a focus action. Too late to do that now, as any ship added w/o a focus would be immediately considered DOA even if it was actually pretty gnarly.

 

Personally i think the main issue here is the degree stats are given. The numbers are too small. This is something that cant really be addressed without a complicated GW-level of new rules like they had in 6th edition where a TON of units were found in the back of the BRB (Big Rule Book) because so many things changed they had to include those.

 

The difference between the mid-tier Xwing ship and the holy-crap-its-insanely-good tier Aces is so minimal its laughable, but the gap between the mid-tier ships and the spammable budget ships is huge pricewise for little gain. This is because 2attack die is considered light, 4 is considered crazy nasty, and 3 is BOTH moderate and high powered ships.

 

We needed a broader range of numbers. The initial TIE should have had 2die attacks, Xwings 4, Interceptors 3, Bwings 5, Awings 3, etc etc and improve the hull/shields ratio to keep the current 1shot potentials between these ships.. Theres no "slightly" more powerful in this game because the difference between 2 and 3 are costed as immense bonuses when in reality its jack squat without the other stuff backing it up. When youre trying to squeeze the budget ship, lightweight ace, medium bruiser, and heavy hitter into the same 2-4 range of offense, something is going to get pushed out as useless. Unfortunately for the xwing, that was the bruiser in this case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Defensive Spiral-2pts. discard after use. if declared a target in the combat phase, immediately execute 3 bank 2 maneuvers and take a stress. Instead of stopping if blocked, take a damage and continue. This ship may not attach again this round.

 

It can be the first in a new type of card, Desperate Maneuvers. They are cheap and can get you out of a jamb, but you may be worse off. It sort of brings the tense flying of dogfighting back.

Edited by IronOx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

If FFG introduces flapping X-Wings I'll never use the card. Refuse. Outside of one game, among many X-Wing flight sims, nothing has ever done boosting X-Wings with wings closed. In films the only two times we see X-Wings close their s-foils in combat situations, even when trying to evade TIEs, is when there were space limitations that would prohibit flying through a gap. Wedge inside the Death Star, Poe on his assault run on the oscillator.

 

Will not deny your love for that game, but this is not the fix you're looking for.

 

I invite you to see the U-wing.  This is why I expect it.  You can replace boost with barrel roll if speed is offensive.

 

 

Well, it'd solve the 'always take Predator' problem, I'll give you that. Your title is by far superior to it.

 

And yes, while I may personally find the appearance of mechanical ornithopters flitting around the stars repulsive, you're right that FFG may indeed use the basis of this for X-Wings. I would hope they do something a bit more creative than boosting/barrel roll... I can think of a few things, but as I'm not qualified to try to balance a new fix, I'll refrain.

 

I'll keep quiet on further proposed fix discussions.

 

 

I was just making a point, not trying to beat you up.

 

I think the upside of the predator always on is that it reacts poorly with TL and FCS for X/B's so it helps bring up the bottom end but not push them over the top.

 

As to the defensive side, collapsing the foils would make the structure more rigid and allow for more extreme maneuvers.  BR actually makes more sense the more I think about it.

 

You don't need to have flappy wings but it is thematic.

 

An alternate approach for the X-wing is more regen, which I like less but is accurate and helps X and E at the same time.  Maybe a droid that starts with 1-2 shield tokens and can gonk them off but not restock them.

 

Or you can go with pure efficiency, something like "liberated fighter"  stolen with the R2 units intact so discount droids.

Edited by Jetfire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In regards to the Awing actions, i would have been fine w/o the TL if they insist on keeping the 4 action limit. Its a 2die ship and if they EVER take missiles they take prockets, so Tlock isnt that important.

Im also surprised nothing lacks a focus action. Too late to do that now, as any ship added w/o a focus would be immediately considered DOA even if it was actually pretty gnarly.

 

Personally i think the main issue here is the degree stats are given. The numbers are too small. This is something that cant really be addressed without a complicated GW-level of new rules like they had in 6th edition where a TON of units were found in the back of the BRB (Big Rule Book) because so many things changed they had to include those.

 

The difference between the mid-tier Xwing ship and the holy-crap-its-insanely-good tier Aces is so minimal its laughable, but the gap between the mid-tier ships and the spammable budget ships is huge pricewise for little gain. This is because 2attack die is considered light, 4 is considered crazy nasty, and 3 is BOTH moderate and high powered ships.

 

We needed a broader range of numbers. The initial TIE should have had 2die attacks, Xwings 4, Interceptors 3, Bwings 5, Awings 3, etc etc and improve the hull/shields ratio to keep the current 1shot potentials between these ships.. Theres no "slightly" more powerful in this game because the difference between 2 and 3 are costed as immense bonuses when in reality its jack squat without the other stuff backing it up. When youre trying to squeeze the budget ship, lightweight ace, medium bruiser, and heavy hitter into the same 2-4 range of offense, something is going to get pushed out as useless. Unfortunately for the xwing, that was the bruiser in this case.

 

I agree in concept on numbers, The X-wing having 4 and the Tie having 2 would make thematic sense.  I would keep the Interceptor at 4 though.  Fortunately there are plenty of ways to negotiate around this as we see with cards like Fearlessness.  You can add die results as needed as you can add evade tokens.  It doesn't doom the enterprise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I definitely think that if FFG were to make an X-wing 2.0 they would probably do something like the Armada attack dice where there's some different kinds with different mixes of results that allow for more fine tuning- see squadron armament in that game where you still have the same 2-3-4 but with black, blue, and red dice having different swings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I'll share here the same ideas I shared in the "List your xwing fixes" thread.

 

Guidance Astromech - 1 point

 

When attacking with your primary weapon, you may change 1 die result to a [hit] result. If you do, you cannot spend target locks or focus tokens on this attack.

 

This slightly improves the firepower of X-Wings, E-Wings, T-70's, and ARC-170's, without quite going full ham. Y-Wings likely would never take it, as they very rarely want to use their primary, and other astromechs do much more for them. Having this action-independent dice mod also encourages the player to take a focus every turn and likely save it for defense, assuming you don't roll 2 or more focus results on an attack. 

 

Importantly, when coupled with Integrated Astromech, this brings the X-Wing's jousting value (from a purely stat-based perspective) to slightly above the B-Wing. It also roughly balances the scales, as far as I can tell, with the TIE Advanced, with either AC or ATC. I'm not completely certain, but I believe that it would be enough to make the X-Wing the Rebellion's most reliable jouster. 

 

CP Astromech - 1 point

 

When you equip this card, place one ordinance token on one [torpedo] Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordinance token on that card instead. 

 

A slightly weaker version of Extra Munitions that would go a long way to encouraging X-Wings and E-Wings to equip torpedoes. Granted, this might be a bit too powerful for just one point. Either way, this would definitely improve the X-Wing's versatility, giving the option of a slightly more expensive, yet still viable, torpedo boat rather than a simple jouster. 

 


T-65 X-Wing - 0 points

 

X-Wing Only, Rebel Only title

 

After performing a [left bank] or [right bank] maneuver, you may rotate your ship 90 degrees. If you do, treat that maneuver as a red maneuver. 

 

And finally, the X-Wing's maneuverability increase. This goes a long way toward making X-Wings less predictable, meaning it's harder to plan maneuvers to arc dodge them. And if the X-Wing moves after its opponent, it can change the direction of its arc to aim almost wherever it needs. Also, since this is a red maneuver, rather than just a bank that gives a stress, Targeting Astromech would trigger off of this, making it a far more useful astromech for the X-Wing. I've yet to really test this one out on the table much, but the maneuverability from turn to turn seems really entertaining, and it's a nice alternative to K-Turns, S-Loops, and T-Rolls. I like to think of it as Drifting. 

Edited by Underachiever599

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have three ideas for titles, two of them dual cards (because dual cards are fun!):

 

1.) Rogue Squadron Pilot

 

Rogue squadron pilot
Title      T-65 X-Wing only
Your upgrade bar gains the (EPT) and (system) slots.
You may not equip this card if your pilot skill is lower than 7.


Rogue squadron had very elite pilots who had great mechanics, always trying out new experimental technology. Plus, then Tycho Celchu and Plourr (Isplourrdacartha Estilla) could then be released as X-Wing pilots!

 

2.) S-Foils (non-flapping variety)

Closed S-foils
Title     T-65 X-Wing only      dual card
You may not perform primary weapon attacks.
Increase your agility value by 1.
Treat ALL ships as if they were at range 3 of you.
Action: flip this card


Open S-foils
Title     T-65 X-Wing only      dual card
Action: place a focus token on this card.

Do not discard this card's tokens at the end of the round.
You may spend a focus token on this card anytime you roll dice

to change all blank results to focus results.
This card may not hold more than three tokens.
If this card has two or more focus tokens on it, you may spend
those tokens to flip this card.


Closed doesn't help Biggs (friendlies at range 3 too), and X-Wings won't "flap" because it takes three actions to flip back and forth, and you can't fire with closed S-Foils.

 

3.) Dual-Linked/Quad-Linked Firing System

Dual-Linked Firing System
Title      T-65 X-Wing only      dual card
Decrease your primary weapon value by 1.
You may perform two attacks per round.

Action: flip this card

Quad-Linked Firing System
Title      T-65 X-Wing only      dual card
Increase your primary weapon value by 1.
At the start of each round, roll a green die.
On an evade result, receive a weapons disabled token.

Action: flip this card

 

Like Underachiever599's (awesome!) ideas, these are from the X-Wing fixes thread.

Edited by Kieransi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the sound of the Dual-Linked/Quad-Linked Firing System. Giving the X-Wing improved firepower that can be tailored to suit different situations. "Enemy has no evade dice, or only one? Dual-Linked it is!" "Enemy has a token-stacking and three evade dice? Guess I'll risk the Quad-Linked, and hope it works." 

 

Though, I'm curious how one would go about costing it. I'm not sure if it should be free, or one point. Either way, could be fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the sound of the Dual-Linked/Quad-Linked Firing System. Giving the X-Wing improved firepower that can be tailored to suit different situations. "Enemy has no evade dice, or only one? Dual-Linked it is!" "Enemy has a token-stacking and three evade dice? Guess I'll risk the Quad-Linked, and hope it works." 

 

Though, I'm curious how one would go about costing it. I'm not sure if it should be free, or one point. Either way, could be fun.

Oh, yeah! I forgot costs! I guess they'd all be free. The game already has a gazillion free titles anyway, so free titles wouldn't be that weird.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have three ideas for titles, two of them dual cards (because dual cards are fun!):

... 

 

3.) Dual-Linked/Quad-Linked Firing System

Dual-Linked Firing System

Title      T-65 X-Wing only      dual card

Decrease your primary weapon value by 1.

You may perform two attacks per round.

Action: flip this card

Quad-Linked Firing System

Title      T-65 X-Wing only      dual card

Increase your primary weapon value by 1.

At the start of each round, roll a green die.

On an evade result, receive a weapons disabled token.

Action: flip this card

 

Like Underachiever599's (awesome!) ideas, these are from the X-Wing fixes thread.

 

Hmm, that is interesting.  I am going to suggest a variation to your idea.  Make it similar to Adaptability in that you place your ships and then choose which side to go with for the whole match instead of flipping.  See a tie swarm or a bunch of low agility large bases, go Dual.  Got some token stackers facing you then go Quad to punch through on those rare chances you get a clean shot.  I do think that the chance of weapons disabled with Quad should be higher though, maybe automatic after any attack that hits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

...

Quad-Linked Firing System

Title      T-65 X-Wing only      dual card

Increase your primary weapon value by 1.

At the start of each round, roll a green die.

On an evade result, receive a weapons disabled token.

Action: flip this card

 

...

Hmm, that is interesting.  I am going to suggest a variation to your idea.  Make it similar to Adaptability in that you place your ships and then choose which side to go with for the whole match instead of flipping.  See a tie swarm or a bunch of low agility large bases, go Dual.  Got some token stackers facing you then go Quad to punch through on those rare chances you get a clean shot.  I do think that the chance of weapons disabled with Quad should be higher though, maybe automatic after any attack that hits.

 

The thing about it is it's random. Lando (crew) has a relatively low probability of whiffing too, but when he does, it's devastating. I agree that it could also be simpler and just read like Corran's ability. With all those changes, it's:

 

Dual-Linked Firing System

Title      T-65 X-Wing only      dual card

Decrease your primary weapon value by 1.

You may perform two attacks per round.

 

Quad-Linked Firing System

Title      T-65 X-Wing only      dual card

When attacking, increase your primary weapon value by 2.

You may not attack next round.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If FFG introduces flapping X-Wings I'll never use the card. Refuse. Outside of one game, among many X-Wing flight sims, nothing has ever done boosting X-Wings with wings closed. In films the only two times we see X-Wings close their s-foils in combat situations, even when trying to evade TIEs, is when there were space limitations that would prohibit flying through a gap. Wedge inside the Death Star, Poe on his assault run on the oscillator.

 

Will not deny your love for that game, but this is not the fix you're looking for.

Poe closed his S-Foils...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually agree with both sides of this argument:

X-Wings can open and close their S-Foils during battles

X-Wings don't fire when their S-Foils are closed

Hence S-Foils, if they are to exist, must behave like a cloak action - giving a defensive and maneuverability boost and prohibiting all firing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True, but he's not going faster, he can't fire with them closed (or he would have) so your advantage in game is what... Smaller profile? Weapons disabled for an extra green? Pah. You're also judging based on the elite pilots in history. I will not deny you that s-foils open and close. I question the validity of it as a combat tactic. I stand by my observation that they are closed only in these extreme positions for spatial reasons.

Look, I love the Xwing both in game and in universe. I flew the original Xwing and TIE fighter sims, read the Rogue Sqdn comics, books and lots more. I still fly with three Rookie pilots in my list at tournaments and have a winning record. The Xwing to me symbolizes Star Wars so reducing the imagery to flap-happy ships isn't doing my mental state any good. I'll let you guys continue, I only returned when called out back into the fray.

I'll retire from this thread now. It's yours. Do as you will. I have no want to convince anybody of anything more

Edited by LagJanson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flapping X Wings is stupid. It makes sense when they have to get through a narrow gap, but that's it. It's like suggesting that WWI soldiers would fight with periscopes attached to their heads because they used them in the trenches.

 

No, it's a niche maneuver used in very specific circumstances, not a standard combat doctrine.

 

I'd like to see a dual card X Wing fix like this:

 

Stutter fire: Increase your primary attack value* when firing against targets with agility 3 or more. Action: Flip the card.

 

Linked fire: Increase your primary attack when firing against targets with agility 1 or less. Action: Flip the card.

 

You could replace this with some kind of evade cancelling mechanism, the actual mechanics are unimportant. The idea is that you are able to adapt to your opponent and become more adaptable.

 

Heck, you could even have it be a 'start of the game' thing like Adaptability. Pick either linked or stutter fire at the start of the game and stick with it regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flapping X Wings is stupid. It makes sense when they have to get through a narrow gap, but that's it. It's like suggesting that WWI soldiers would fight with periscopes attached to their heads because they used them in the trenches.

 

No, it's a niche maneuver used in very specific circumstances, not a standard combat doctrine.

 

I'd like to see a dual card X Wing fix like this:

 

Stutter fire: Increase your primary attack value* when firing against targets with agility 3 or more. Action: Flip the card.

 

Linked fire: Increase your primary attack when firing against targets with agility 1 or less. Action: Flip the card.

 

You could replace this with some kind of evade cancelling mechanism, the actual mechanics are unimportant. The idea is that you are able to adapt to your opponent and become more adaptable.

 

Heck, you could even have it be a 'start of the game' thing like Adaptability. Pick either linked or stutter fire at the start of the game and stick with it regardless.

 

What you're describing is pretty similar in to the Dual-Linked/Quad-Linked Fire Systems that Kieransi and I discussed on the previous page. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...