The Curious case of the X-wing

[Kharnvor 427]

The T-65 is a victim of power creep and for whatever reason has been denied a full and proper adjustment to bring it up to current levels of competitiveness.  Probably due to some misplaced fear of making a few specific pilots too powerful and a difficulty in finding it a niche not already occupied that still feels like a T-65.

 

If action and token stacking hadn't been introduced to the game so heavy-handedly it would have been easier to bring the T-65 up to speed.

[Panzeh 948]

The generic x-wing is a pure math ship and some t-65s see play anyway so i don't think a fix is in the cards.

[ficklegreendice 33,816]

The T-65 is a victim of power creep and for whatever reason has been denied a full and proper adjustment to bring it up to current levels of competitiveness. 

 

yeah, that Wave 0 Tie Fighter powercreep

[asters89 280]

The generic x-wing is a pure math ship and some t-65s see play anyway so i don't think a fix is in the cards.

 

Not entirely sure what you mean by the first bit, but the maths doesn't add up.

 

The t-65 pilots we see at the moment are Biggs and Wes, both solely due to their abilities and in spite of, rather than because of the chasis.

 

Given that Rogue One will represent a massive oppertunity for the game (and also that the game is called X-wing), I wouldn't be surprised to see some future releases which will give the x-wing a bit of a leg-up.

[Samwise Gamgee 246]

All I know is I want to fly my main man Wedge. (Also Zev Senesca) Hopefully, with Rogue One, I'll get toys for the first and the pilot for the second.

[Kharnvor 427]

 

The T-65 is a victim of power creep and for whatever reason has been denied a full and proper adjustment to bring it up to current levels of competitiveness. 

 

yeah, that Wave 0 Tie Fighter powercreep

 

I obviously wasn't referring to the standard TIE Fighter which has avoided the same fate as the X-Wing thanks to the utility of the cheapest blocker in the game and a steady stream of new pilots, abilities, and mods.

 

What percentage of TIE pilots from the core set and wave 1 see play compared to the X-Wing from the same?  Anybody know?

[Jadotch 1,376]

Simple Rebel Fix

 

R7-A7 

Astromech

Unique

2 Points

 

When defending against a secondary weapon, you may add one <evade> and change one blank result to <eyeball>.

 

Something like this would go a long ways in the Rebel fleet. It is unique, it will not do anything for ships just using primaries. And it is a good defense from Torpedo Scouts, BroBots, TIE Defenders and Dash Rendar.

 

Since it is unique, you can't have a fleet of them running around. The low points make it attractive. It would rock on a PTL E-Wing. Biggs would become a pain in the ass for U-Boats. All while a standard TIE is just as much threat as ever.
 

But that is just my thought.

 

Edited September 28, 2016 by Jadotch

[Shenannigan 631]

I've always been partial to this idea as a fix. It keeps it unique and doesn't just fall into the reposition Creep game:

Easy and Thematic. Two titles:

Rogue Leader (Unique)

T-65 only

2 points

Ships with the "Rogue Squadron" Upgrade card may share your pilot ability (in addition to their own pilot ability)

Your pilot skill must be 6 or higher to equip this card.

Rogue Squadron

T-65 (and E-wing) only

0 points

You may use the pilot ability of the ship equipped with the Rogue Leader upgrade card. (in addition to your own pilot ability)

Your printed pilot ability must be 4 or lower to equip this card

Basically it avoids the Biggs Effect (even with adaptability) but make the ships a unique squad true to their book form. and help bring back the generics/ e-wings not named corran.

[dewbie420 1,627]

With some of the new mechanics and card effects coming out lately- maybe there will NEVER be a true fix -just many options for players to improve their "T-65" squad and increase it's viability in competitive play.

 

I really think that FFG has got this, they know what's up. I have a funny feeling that future Dual and Condition cards will benefiting the X-wing in a major way.  

[B000urn5 15]

The reason I hate these daily "fix the x-wing" posts, and the reason I don't think it's justified, is that they DO see competitive play. Sure it's only 1 or 2 pilots for niche abilities but let's compare that to the imperials everyone loves to compare them to. Tie interceptor, one pilot, occasionally 2, see play. Never a generic. Tie advanced, 1 pilot. Never a generic. TAP, 1 pilot. Never a generic. The list go's on. Just because the t-65 has been relegated to a support roll with a couple excellent pilot options does not make it a non-viable ship.

[Zefirus 435]

 

 

The T-65 is a victim of power creep and for whatever reason has been denied a full and proper adjustment to bring it up to current levels of competitiveness. 

 

yeah, that Wave 0 Tie Fighter powercreep

 

I obviously wasn't referring to the standard TIE Fighter which has avoided the same fate as the X-Wing thanks to the utility of the cheapest blocker in the game and a steady stream of new pilots, abilities, and mods.

 

What percentage of TIE pilots from the core set and wave 1 see play compared to the X-Wing from the same?  Anybody know?

 

 

The three big ones are all wave 1 (Academy Pilot, Black Squadron Pilot, Howlrunner), though you occasionally see the giant named pilot swarm.  I also wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some of the TIEs that add an attack die in combination with snapshot.

[ficklegreendice 33,816]

 

 

 

The T-65 is a victim of power creep and for whatever reason has been denied a full and proper adjustment to bring it up to current levels of competitiveness. 

 

yeah, that Wave 0 Tie Fighter powercreep

 

I obviously wasn't referring to the standard TIE Fighter which has avoided the same fate as the X-Wing thanks to the utility of the cheapest blocker in the game and a steady stream of new pilots, abilities, and mods.

 

What percentage of TIE pilots from the core set and wave 1 see play compared to the X-Wing from the same?  Anybody know?

 

 

The three big ones are all wave 1 (Academy Pilot, Black Squadron Pilot, Howlrunner), though you occasionally see the giant named pilot swarm.  I also wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some of the TIEs that add an attack die in combination with snapshot.

 

 

so literally just mauler

 

poor Stabber doesn't have an ept

[Zefirus 435]

 

 

 

 

The T-65 is a victim of power creep and for whatever reason has been denied a full and proper adjustment to bring it up to current levels of competitiveness. 

 

yeah, that Wave 0 Tie Fighter powercreep

 

I obviously wasn't referring to the standard TIE Fighter which has avoided the same fate as the X-Wing thanks to the utility of the cheapest blocker in the game and a steady stream of new pilots, abilities, and mods.

 

What percentage of TIE pilots from the core set and wave 1 see play compared to the X-Wing from the same?  Anybody know?

 

 

The three big ones are all wave 1 (Academy Pilot, Black Squadron Pilot, Howlrunner), though you occasionally see the giant named pilot swarm.  I also wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing some of the TIEs that add an attack die in combination with snapshot.

 

 

so literally just mauler

 

poor Stabber doesn't have an ept

 

 

Scourge works, though he's not wave 1.  Also Zeta Leader, though he's not even a TIE/ln.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Zefirus

[Jetfire 743]

S-foils (flip card) modification

Arc/X/B-wing only

 

Defense side (closed)

-After executing a green maneuver you may perform a boost then assign an evade token to this ship

flip this card

 

Attack side (open)

-you may reroll 2 dice when attacking

-you may flip this card before at the end of the round.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Jetfire

[ficklegreendice 33,816]

well the ARC s-foils are different because they don't actually change the positions of the gun at all

 

they just fan out to radiate heat better

 

 

so I wouldn't feel compelled to include them in a fix (esp since they're already very VERY solid, imo)

 

which is good, because if s-foils were a title they'd NEVER TAKE IT (need dat overhaul) but if s-foils were a mod you'd screw over Xs (integrated) and make Bs a little sad (b/e mod)

Edited September 28, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[LagJanson 6,207]

If FFG introduces flapping X-Wings I'll never use the card. Refuse. Outside of one game, among many X-Wing flight sims, nothing has ever done boosting X-Wings with wings closed. In films the only two times we see X-Wings close their s-foils in combat situations, even when trying to evade TIEs, is when there were space limitations that would prohibit flying through a gap. Wedge inside the Death Star, Poe on his assault run on the oscillator.

 

Will not deny your love for that game, but this is not the fix you're looking for.

[Jetfire 743]

If FFG introduces flapping X-Wings I'll never use the card. Refuse. Outside of one game, among many X-Wing flight sims, nothing has ever done boosting X-Wings with wings closed. In films the only two times we see X-Wings close their s-foils in combat situations, even when trying to evade TIEs, is when there were space limitations that would prohibit flying through a gap. Wedge inside the Death Star, Poe on his assault run on the oscillator.

 

Will not deny your love for that game, but this is not the fix you're looking for.

 

I invite you to see the U-wing.  This is why I expect it.  You can replace boost with barrel roll if speed is offensive.

Edited September 28, 2016 by Jetfire

[Giledhil 1,336]

All unite against pigeon-wings and their flapping sfoils !

[LagJanson 6,207]

 

If FFG introduces flapping X-Wings I'll never use the card. Refuse. Outside of one game, among many X-Wing flight sims, nothing has ever done boosting X-Wings with wings closed. In films the only two times we see X-Wings close their s-foils in combat situations, even when trying to evade TIEs, is when there were space limitations that would prohibit flying through a gap. Wedge inside the Death Star, Poe on his assault run on the oscillator.

 

Will not deny your love for that game, but this is not the fix you're looking for.

 

I invite you to see the U-wing.  This is why I expect it.  You can replace boost with barrel roll if speed is offensive.

 

 

Well, it'd solve the 'always take Predator' problem, I'll give you that. Your title is by far superior to it.

 

And yes, while I may personally find the appearance of mechanical ornithopters flitting around the stars repulsive, you're right that FFG may indeed use the basis of this for X-Wings. I would hope they do something a bit more creative than boosting/barrel roll... I can think of a few things, but as I'm not qualified to try to balance a new fix, I'll refrain.

 

I'll keep quiet on further proposed fix discussions.

[Dosiere 464]

S-foils, dual card

Side 1: attack position. You may use your x wing as normal.

Side 2: landing position. Reduce your primary attack value by 2. You may land if you choose.

There, now everyone is happy.

[wurms 4,261]

I still like Theorist's Dogfighter title card the best for an Xwing fix.

 

"When defending or attacking, if the enemy ship is in your arc, it can only modify dice with tokens."

 

This takes skill as lining up aces in Xwing arcs is difficult, and prevents Party bus, palpatine, etc from destroying you easily. Almost takes Xwings power back to the beginning of the game and gives them their jouster ability back.

 

Or do a defender type of fix.

 

 

High Awareness Fighter - T-65 X-wing only title (-1pt):

 

"After you perform an attack, you may assign yourself 1 evade token."

 

Fixes the cost of lower PS, boosts the survivability of higher PS. No cheese with Juke either.

[mxlm 902]

It's a bit frustrating that FFG was so conservative even with the T-70. Really, Blue Ace would break the game if she had access to PTL and could slap on an R2 Astromech to hard 2, hard boost, and focus or TL every round? But It's fine for Countess to have green K-turns, an unblockable evade, and access to both focus and target lock every round?

 

Jess would break the game if she had access to an EPT and could boost her PS up to match the Countess, or take Predator or Wired or whatever for even more rerolls? At PS3 in a T70? Well, if you say so. 

[ficklegreendice 33,816]

It's a bit frustrating that FFG was so conservative even with the T-70. Really, Blue Ace would break the game if she had access to PTL and could slap on an R2 Astromech to hard 2, hard boost, and focus or TL every round? But It's fine for Countess to have green K-turns, an unblockable evade, and access to both focus and target lock every round?

 

I consider the x7 to be FFG learning from the underwhelming t-70

 

 

they didn't introduce anything similarly awesome in Hotr, though

Edited September 28, 2016 by ficklegreendice

[HawkZ71 97]

I still feel the root of the problem comes from the design limitations of the game where it all started.  When the core set first came out, all you had was an x-wing and two tie fighters.  Even if you bought more core sets…it was still just 2 ships.  They had to make them feel different…so more firepower, target lock, and shields for the x-wing…but better agility, lower cost, and a barrel role trick for the tie fighter.  The first games I played with my son, I felt like the x-wing was more a brick, than a starfighter.  I feel all of the ships should have had the barrel roll ability.  Now fast forward and we have Vectored Thursters that can be attached to any small ship as a modification.  If all ships from the beginning could have barrel rolled, the game would have started a lot different.  Maybe the only limitation is certain large and all huge ships would not be able to barrel roll.  Now all small ships have a chance to reposition.  Then add boost to the tie interceptor, A-wing, and similar small ships.  Also remove the limitation that a ship can only have a max of 4 actions.  That just seems stupid.  The A-wing should have been able to focus, target lock, barrel roll, boost, and evade without adding any more cards.

 

It is obvious the game has been evolving not just for balance, but to help improve things. No more junk droids with a chance for success and ordinance seems to continue improving.

 

The other problem that irks me is that a ship cannot escape its own firing arc.  Unless you know a few small tricks, there is no way to escape if a higher PS is behind you.  All they have to do is set a maneuver that lands on your spot (after you have moved) with their arc pointing in the same general direction…and there you are, a sitting duck.  I guess the “I can’t shake him” became a theme in this game for most of the ships when being chased by a better pilot.

 

I hope for a 2.0 version of the game if FFG does not require you to rebuy everything.  Just replace the cards and templates as upgrade kits.

[Ken at Sunrise 2,064]

At least in my group the X-Wing with R2 and Integrated Astomech has done very well and even well against TIE fighters. With a relatively low Pilot Skill, point for point it's Pilot Skill is still higher than comparable TIE Fighters so the X-Wings fire first. R2 make them very slippery. When either side can focus fire you can take someone down. However the Rebels, having twice the hits available to them, makes it harder. X-Wings acting together can still have over-lapping arcs even against a lot of arc dodgers. Now with Vectored Thrusters available you could have an interesting mix, half of the X-Wings with R2 and IA and the other half with R2 and Vectored Thrusters.
 
Just comparing four TIE Fighters against two X-Wings, using the lowest pilot skills available but equal in points you have:

Rookie Pilot (21)
R2 Astromech (1)
Integrated Astromech (0)

Rookie Pilot (21)
Flechette Torpedoes (2)
R2 Astromech (1)
Vectored Thrusters (2)

Total: 48

View in Yet Another Squad Builder
 
Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 48

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

 

You have two X-Wings with more green than a TIE Interceptor, one with after movement barrel roll, one with a Hull Upgrade by way of Integrated Astromech and a 3 attack torpedo that stresses too.
 
 
P.S. wasn't there a time when people said all the X-Wing needed was more hits/hull for free or something like Engine Upgrade but cheaper?