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Spartan Dude

Super Dash HLC or Mangler?

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Hi guys and dolls.

I can't decide whether or not to run a super dash build with Norra Wexley. However with Dash I can't decide whether to give him a Heavy Laser Cannon or a Mangler. The advantage for HLC is that it's 4 dice at range 3 but can't attack at range 1 and can't crit. The mangler cannon ofcourse is cheaper and changes one hit to a crit and attack at range 3 but 3 attack dice rather than 4.

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I ran a super dash with ghost build last month in a tournament and did a lot of reading for it, the HLC is basically the normal weapon to put on it but the mangler is a good option. I think a large part of it would come down to which crew is on your super dash, as there are two great options Kyle Katarn and Kannan Jarrus. Both giving you a large change to your play style, Kyle gives you that focus which can come in handy for more than just offense but it limits you, for the most part, to 4 maneuvers. That can makes it easier (but it is still tricky) to pin you down and get into the donut hole making the mangler a good option and it's cheep. With kannan you have your entire dial at your disposal almost every turn making it nearly impossible for someone to figure out where  you are going allowing the HLC to really shine with a 4 straight, target lock and focus. There also comes the question of what to do with the extra points if you don't take HLC as norra tends to cap out at 40-42 points which means that you really don't have much to do with those points but put rockets on Dash but why do that most of the time people are going to be out of arc cause of your slipperiness. That's my two cents.

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4 dice are key for punching damage through. If you know you're gonna face a bunch of high health ships like deci./yv's/jumpmasters, then mangler may make a difference, but everytime you're prayin for that direct hit you could have already had it's equivalent by bringing the bigger gun.

 

I agree w/Sabine. Kannan makes Dash way more slippery and more likely to avoid donut eaters.

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Sorry just to confirm. Kanan works for this ship he's on?

 The wording is "Once per round, after a friendly ship at range 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship" If it didn't work for himself it would say " after ANOTHER friendly ship" 

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HLC is the better choice. As is Kyle as a crew compared to Kanan. This is assuming that you can handle flying Dash with these limitations on both attack range and moves. If you can then HLC/Kyle is always the better option.

Edited by John Rainbow

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One of the main reasons I equip Kyle Katarn rather than Kanan Jarrus is to insure a modifier for my attack.  The normal build has Push the Limit and Engine Upgrade, so being able to boost and barrel roll and gain a focus has an advantage to make sure you can modify your attack dice.

Kanan certainly gives you more options for movement, but I prefer the focus of Kyle.

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Without a four dice attack or a second attack via Corran/Gunner*, a 45+ point ship just can't punch through an aces defenses reliably, and you should assume that such an expensive ship will either be the first of your list to die, or the last. In the latter case, Mangler Dash simply won't do anything to most Endgame ships.

 

Also, the Donut hole is still there- Unless you've arc dodged your opponent, they're winning the dice exchange, and frankly, the situations in which you can't arc dodge and get to range 2 are so rare as to be not worth sacrificing the HLC's punch for.

 

 

 

*Or Zuckuss shenanigans, but that's not relevant here, of course

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A big plus for HLC, with 4 hits you can actually hit soontir fel through palp. With mangler soontir fel is untouchable till palp is dead, and still extremely hard to hit afterward.

Even then it is hard if he is with a Stealth Device + Autothrusters.

Yes, hard for certain. Possible though. With mangler at 3 attack dice an out of arc shot has a very real 0 percent chance of hitting. Even if Fel blanks his 4 dice one becomes an evade, he has an evade token, and palpatine fixes for the third. It's a real problem for mangler dash.

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I would not pay 55 points to just have a 3-dice attack (except fortress builds like Fat Han). The fourth die makes a huge difference. Definetively HLC.

You need something to protect your donut hole, especially in times of Fenn Rau. Choices are Ghost (with autoblaster and optionally fire control system) or Miranda/Corran/Poe/Ello/Norra/Jake/Nera etc

Edited by IG88E

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Theyre a tradeoff of each other. One is weaker, but impossible to avoid, while the other hits harder, but can be dodged if flown right.

 

4damage is usually the threshold to get some damage through the really evasive guys. Usually when my x7 Lone Wolf ryad gets hit with a 4die attack i cringe, because its very difficult to avoid that and if i do i more than likely burned all my tokens so any followup attacks i cant do jack with. However, HLC cant crit so its only raw damage (unless its against Omega Leader) and it has a range1 donut of no-shooting that can really hamper it if you get caught there. Large ship with a broll should never get caught in that though unless someone moves after it and was really close to begin with.

 

Mangler only does 3, always causes a crit unless you solidly wiff, and has no range1 issue. Against low agi targets, the crit usually offsets the lack of a 4th hit, but any 3/4Agi ships especially with token stacking will have a higher chance of dodging it entirely than you may think. Soontir, for instance, rarely gets hit by a 3die hit unless it was the 3rd one he defended against that round, but a 4die hit is pretty fething hard to dodge without tokens/palp. He may still dodge the 4hit but i guarantee you took some tokens away, while the 3hit might not.

 

HLC is generally better because its just flatout harder to avoid, even if it does no crits. But if you are having issues of people catching  you in range1, you should switch to mangler until you can get enough practice to never get caught in range1

Edited by Vineheart01

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As stated above, HLC is better vs the two archetypes you'll likely face in organized play: Aces or tanky ships.

 

Me though, after HotR hits, I'll be running Dash with VI, Rey, HLC, Outrider, Prockets, Counter-measures, Snuggling Compartments (intentionally misspelled,) and BMST.

 

With a 40-point Norra (98 points total,) I'll be getting the initiative order going however I need it, and ready to go

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Sorry just to confirm. Kanan works for this ship he's on?

A ship is always within Range 1 of itself, that's why some abilities say choose another friendly ship to point out that you can't use it on your own ship. Also a HLC can crit, just needs to be on a re roll after a target lock.

 

I faced a Leebo/Lothal list, I killed the Lothal pretty quick, but he had Rec Spec as crew and you cannot discount how painful it is knowing that your opponent has mods for defense and attack. It was down to my Ryad and His Leebo. The 4 dice attack is what won it for him, I was rolling well for me green dice, but when 6 options out of 8 result in a hit on a red die, there is a time when your green die will just fail that one time and you die. His Leebo was left on 1 Hull at the end of the game. I also had to save my focus for my survivability, I moved and shot first, so I did not know if I had to use my focus until it did not matter. 

Edited by Archangelspiv

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