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Marinealver

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To be or not to be canon, dosn't matter to me, as they already let the cat out of the bag +20 years ago with alot of the EU stuff.

 

I grew up with the EU stuff and its imprinted into my mind in away, that no Disney canon can (brain)wash away.

I live and perceive my Star Wars universe as I see fit, because that's what I enjoy to do and experience for hours on end when I have the time to spare.

 

Some of the EU is bad some is good, like so with the Prequels and TFA, but I take it all because its Star Wars and I'm fan of Star Wars.

 

And no money grubbing business executive is going to tell me what I'm suppose to like and accept as the "True" Star Wars experience, Period! ;)

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Is canon an issue anyway? The TIE Phantom & Defender are not canon IIRC and they are in the game. As is a bunch of other stuff.

  

I think the Phantom and Defender snuck in because they'd been included in X-wing before the mass culling of canon, and were therefore sort of protected in FFGs pocket of the universe. They can retcon all the stories they want, but when there's physical game pieces out there making money, they have to make some sort of exception. E-wings are/were in the same situation.

Both are canon because they appear in Star Wars Commander, which is canon.

X Wing is not canon, so a ship making an appearance there also isn't canon.

Corran Horn isn't canon, neither is the Imp Raider, for example.

 

 

Who sais that Star Wars Commander is  canon and X-Wing is not?

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Disney. People can call them horrible or terrible all they want, I myself am definitely not a Disney fan in the slightest, however they did the smartest thing they could. The EU still exists, they still publish books as Legends but they are free to create new content thats unattached to already established EU stories.

 

The books still exist so the old canon EU still exists it's just not canon. I still enjoy all my old Essential Guides and in my head consider them canon. If it helps do what Star Trek did with their reboots and imagine the two EUs as separate alternate universes.     

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Disney. People can call them horrible or terrible all they want, I myself am definitely not a Disney fan in the slightest, however they did the smartest thing they could. The EU still exists, they still publish books as Legends but they are free to create new content thats unattached to already established EU stories.

 

The books still exist so the old canon EU still exists it's just not canon. I still enjoy all my old Essential Guides and in my head consider them canon. If it helps do what Star Trek did with their reboots and imagine the two EUs as separate alternate universes.

Nothing will stop the X Wing Series from being Star Wars to me forever. Disney isn't even trying to make it not Star Wars, they just want to be able to make their own movies. That's legit, of course they do. So that basically means the EU had to go. That's fine, because almost all of the EU was pretty crappy anyway. They'll keep the best (Thrawn, Defenders, Corran Horn, Boba Fett living) and drop the worst, and change the story. no big deal.

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Disney. People can call them horrible or terrible all they want, I myself am definitely not a Disney fan in the slightest, however they did the smartest thing they could. The EU still exists, they still publish books as Legends but they are free to create new content thats unattached to already established EU stories.

The books still exist so the old canon EU still exists it's just not canon. I still enjoy all my old Essential Guides and in my head consider them canon. If it helps do what Star Trek did with their reboots and imagine the two EUs as separate alternate universes.

Nothing will stop the X Wing Series from being Star Wars to me forever. Disney isn't even trying to make it not Star Wars, they just want to be able to make their own movies. That's legit, of course they do. So that basically means the EU had to go. That's fine, because almost all of the EU was pretty crappy anyway. They'll keep the best (Thrawn, Defenders, Corran Horn, Boba Fett living) and drop the worst, and change the story. no big deal.
Spoiler alert: if you haven't seen TFA (edit)

Spoiler Alert: if you haven't seen Episode V-VI and you don't know who Luke's dad is or what happened to Bobba (double edit)

I thought they (Disney) killed Bobba after he feel into the pit the first time. Like, that was a "Luke screaming 'Nooo!!!' when Darth Vader claimed him as son" moment, just as much as when Disney gave Han the dirty in TFA. (But not as bad as when Rey used a Jedi mind trick without knowing what a Jedi mind trick is).

Edited by Parkdaddy

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Disney. People can call them horrible or terrible all they want, I myself am definitely not a Disney fan in the slightest, however they did the smartest thing they could. The EU still exists, they still publish books as Legends but they are free to create new content thats unattached to already established EU stories.

The books still exist so the old canon EU still exists it's just not canon. I still enjoy all my old Essential Guides and in my head consider them canon. If it helps do what Star Trek did with their reboots and imagine the two EUs as separate alternate universes.

Nothing will stop the X Wing Series from being Star Wars to me forever. Disney isn't even trying to make it not Star Wars, they just want to be able to make their own movies. That's legit, of course they do. So that basically means the EU had to go. That's fine, because almost all of the EU was pretty crappy anyway. They'll keep the best (Thrawn, Defenders, Corran Horn, Boba Fett living) and drop the worst, and change the story. no big deal.
Spoiler alert: if you haven't seen TFA (edit)

Spoiler Alert: if you haven't seen Episode V-VI and you don't know who Luke's dad is or what happened to Bobba (double edit)

I thought they (Disney) killed Bobba after he feel into the pit the first time. Like, that was a "Luke screaming 'Nooo!!!' when Darth Vader claimed him as son" moment, just as much as when Disney gave Han the dirty in TFA. (But not as bad as when Rey used a Jedi mind trick without knowing what a Jedi mind trick is).

 

 

spoiler for Aftermath:

In the Aftermath books it's implied Boba Fett may still be alive but so far hasn't been confirmed or denied. 

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He'll obviously live. He's the best selling character in the Star Wars franchise. Disney likes money.

The idea is right, but I recently read an article that claimed Darth Vader was actually the most profitable. And he doesn't have to live in order for them to make up more stuff before he dies

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The Problem with Scum as an Armada Faction, is we have no canon statements that any of the previous listings and crime consortiums have fleets.

 

 

We know the Black Sun exists, for example (As Ketsu is a member of it on Rebels)...  But nowhere do we know how big of a group that actually is anymore.  Or wether they are just a consortium of semi-independent operators, as Ketsu is.

 

Same as the Zann Consortium.  There is no canon statement that it even exists.

 

There isn't even any canon sourcing that Jabba has a Space-Worthy Vessel himself anymore!

 

 

Before we get a S&V Fleet in Armada, I feel that would have to change.   

 

At least, if its going to be a Fleet, anyway...  

 

 

I mean, I'm not perfect with these sorts of things, but I would challenge anyone to find a canon statement that any of these things have a Combat Worthy Fleet.

While it's not any of the factions meantioned in this thread there was a interlude in aftermath life debt about a group of pirates lead by someone named ELeodie Maracavanya. They are in control of a stole super star destroyer the annihilator. I'd imagine it would be much easier if a pirate faction to build a fleet one they have a SSD

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Disney has done a lot of things to Star Wars that I don't like. Rebels, Rogue One, over saturation...all can be attributed to, or at least influenced by Disney. However, it is ludicrousy to say Disney decides what is canon. No Lucas Film does. Do you all really think that if Fox was still distributing Star Wars, we would have Tartans and DP 20s and Ewings, etc.?

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To all of the 'there can be no scum, they don't have enough big ships for me' sorts out there, well... that might be true; the scum probably can't conjure up enough unique ships to comprise their own fully fledged faction right off the bat.  Maybe they will in the future, and maybe they won't.  

 

But what if it doesn't work like X-wing, but something closer to Imperial Assault?  IE, they have their own independent faction, but in certain modes, they can act as their own faction or as a sub faction of the Empire/Rebels. (Say, 1/3 points can be 'Mercenaries' in a typical list).  That way we have a staging point for a potential future outlet without just shoehorning them in when a new book says "Yo, you know the crew that took over the Super Star Destroyer Annihilator when the Galaxy fell into chaos?  Turns out they didn't just hop on the back of their space chevy's, they had a fleet."    

 

Nothing better than burning bridges based on the mentality of the present rather than the potentials of the future. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an item/idea doesn't need to be canon to be submitted, that is merely more likely to be approved.  

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Nothing better than burning bridges based on the mentality of the present rather than the potentials of the future. Correct me if I'm wrong, but an item/idea doesn't need to be canon to be submitted, that is merely more likely to be approved.  

 

I cannot correct you on this point, because, as we are not party to the arrangement, agreement, and license terms - we simply do not know.

 

So it may be that.  

 

It may be stricter.

 

 It may be looser.

 

 

 

With the timeframes we have for Development, let alone for production, its impossible to know what was approved when, and what has been approved in preparation for what may be canon in the future.

 

 

 

 

---

 

 

Personally, I'm just an Arsehole.  

I like my Civil War Civil-War-ry.    I don't want it bogged down in, y'know, criminal enterprise.  It cheapens the whole thing.  I felt the same with Empire at War, too...  The fact that the Grand Alliance Against the Empire is really, only as two-bit as the Local Crimeboss.

 

It takes an edge off the nobility of it.  It works fine for a Darker setting, such as, y'know, our popular-as-ever Grimdark...  But Star Wars has that hopeful Nobility aspect to it. 

 

 

 

 

 

That, and for War to be good for Business, means, in the immediate, throwing a lot in with one side or the other...  Sure, you can do both over the long term, but in the short term, you're doing things for one or the other, or you're not being profitable.

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"Someone must have told them about my little maneuver at the battle of Taanab."  ~Mr. Cool. 

 

Taanab, fought between a defense 'fleet' and a pirate 'fleet', big enough news to make the Sultan of Tibanna into a general and fighter contingent leader.  That is canon.  And thus, that's the thing: I like my Galactic Civil War to be civil war-y, but as with all wars, it's not all about the front line conflicts for the most critical battlefields, where the most famous names in the setting come out to play.  It's also about all the little things that such a war would be privy too.

 

Garm carved out his own rebellion separate from the Alliance after the falling out with Mothma, pirates and merchant dynasties try to kill off their competition under the auspice of the Empire by saying they are 'loyal citizens', thus driving more into the open arms of the Rebels.  The usage of certain tactics and weapons in one sector influences others to rebel or to submit.  A civil war is always an interesting mix of hopeful ideals melded with the realities of ruthless pragmatism and predatory machinations. 

 

I like my Ceknell-y style politics melded and fused with the typical Star Wars conflicts.  It gives the setting life, vibrancy, and embraces the grey that pseudo-reality entails far better than the insipid morally chromatic golden era comic book storylines.  We can take all the good bits of that and also let the other aspects of it flourish in the background, and for something like Armada or any of the miniature games, that means we can have both.

 

I'm not an Arsehole, for the record.  I just play one when the situations asks it of me. :P  'Tis unenviable to be one, after all.  I do completely disagree with your notion of war profitability, but that's a subject for a different time in a different thread. 

Edited by Vykes

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Well, I will say one thing, Vykes.

 

You, via the Ceknell stuff you have done, and continue to do, already provide a better view, and a better framework, of what you should expect outside of the main purview, than what you find in the mainstream Canon now, anyway.

 

So there's that.

 

Chalk it up to an equal mix of abject jealousy, and short-sightedness on my past...  I just feel that we do very much have a very narrow window of views and events in Star Wars.  That is because the films, for a time, are our only view into the Universe.  

 

Things that are outside of that view, although realistic, often just don't feel like Star Wars.

 

 

You execute it better than most.

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-smiles and bows- my thanks for that, mate. Honestly, it is from the grimness and darkness of a place not so long ago in a galaxy not far, far away at all.  That, an interest in history, enjoyment of some of the ambiguous characters in Rebels, all melded with a weird fascination with how the Empire was portrayed in TIE fighter, makes the setting feel more rounded and less jarring to me.  So I have a tendency to lobby for that.  After all, didn't the all-powerful 'they' say that there was heroes on both sides of a galaxy-spanning war?  (You're making me use Episode III as a platform, gah, I hate myself right now.)   

 

But that is kinda' the thing: while I'm not sure that I'd actually enjoy a lot of what I espouse in a Star Wars movie, I think there's ample room for it in the scope of a Star Wars game just by laying a slightly wider groundwork on the systems.  Thus, it can accommodate good vs. evil in the Alliance vs. Empire, but we can also include dual-faction entities, smaller but still notable personas that have worked one or both sides in the past, and allow for room for future expansion in all forms of media.  It's just a method of future proofing to allow the possibility rather than restricting it. 

 

More over, as it's more fan-fic than can-fic, you can easily facewash it in the snow shouting, "That's not real, you horrible monster, you!"  Give us a restricted view (it's better for theme, no question) but allow the possibility of the alternative without strictly mandating it.  It's actually how I've viewed R&V from Day 1.  Why should my Imperial Navy forces be stuck relying on mercs for critical rules and important roles?  Shouldn't my galaxy-spanning state navel yards be providing me with alternatives?  And why are my rebels getting all cozy with a freight line company?  Some cells might be that credit-strapped, but I don't want -mine- to be if I don't want 'em to!  But give 'em a merc option where you can take 'em, and that issue goes away. 

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I like my Civil War Civil-War-ry.    I don't want it bogged down in, y'know, criminal enterprise.  It cheapens the whole thing.  I felt the same with Empire at War, too...  The fact that the Grand Alliance Against the Empire is really, only as two-bit as the Local Crimeboss.

 

It takes an edge off the nobility of it.  It works fine for a Darker setting, such as, y'know, our popular-as-ever Grimdark...  But Star Wars has that hopeful Nobility aspect to it.

 

A civil war with "hopeful Nobility". Grand Admiral Thrawn as Robert E. Lee? You sound like an American. :P

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